Anker PowerHouse - a sign of what has come and an interestng review

[Greekman]

found about this in our flashlight forum. it is a detailed review of a Anker-made power box.
it has 36 18650 lithium batteries inside. (from the looks of it they Should be Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh ones)
the review should be on the top of the review section.
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerHouse-120000mAh-Alternative-Rechargeable/dp/B0196GQAKM/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1511473033&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=anker+powerhouse

of course it is no great feat to build one of his own, assuming one has the skills required. And save 200 bucks?

[machinisttx]

36 of them? That's actually pretty scary if something ever goes wrong.

[kid_couteau]

Ok I get it, they are lighter and cool looking.

But for about $300 I could build a power bank with a sine inverter, 35 AH battery and connectors to do pretty much all of the stuff this thing does.

Is it just that people are not in the know that makes these things sell so much?

Or am I missing something? I tend to do that.

Kid Couteau

[Smurf Hunter]

Got solder?

[Greekman]

36 of them? That's actually pretty scary if something ever goes wrong.

36 isn't scary..just concerning. 8256 is SCARY and some people have paid money to sit on top of them

Teardown of new 100 kWh Tesla Car battery pack

https://electrek.co/2017/01/24/tesla-teardown-100-kwh-battery-pack/

Is it just that people are not in the know that makes these things sell so much?
Or am I missing something? I tend to do that.

no you are not missing anything.
people are tempted to spend big bucks for technology that they cannot understand.
150 green ones for a 20Wh battery plus stuff.
https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/15/biolite-solarhome-620-power-music-light/?sr_source=Facebook
https://www.bioliteenergy.com/products/solarhome-620

[Alan Georges]

Didn't we beat this one up last year?
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=57783.0

no you are not missing anything.
people are tempted to spend big bucks for technology that they cannot understand.

GM is right: Too much money for too little bang.  In the famous quote mis-attributed to circus showman P.T. Barnum, "There's a sucker born every minute."

[Carl]

  The math still does not add up as 36 batteries that are max rated at 3.5 amp hours ...might mean you get (if used beyond the 70% recommended maximum use for these cell) ...about 80 amp hours AT 3.7 VOLTS that will be about 20 Amp Hours at 12 volts for about 250 WATTS at 120 volts for ONE HOUR....unless your house is USB POWERED,the 120 Amp Hours means NOTHING.

My 'country math' is probably very generous as to this unit's capability.

[Alan Georges]

[...] that will be about 20 Amp Hours at 12 volts for about 250 WATTS at 120 volts for ONE HOUR....unless your house is USB POWERED,the 120 Amp Hours means NOTHING.

My 'country math' is probably very generous as to this unit's capability.

20 AH, 12.5 lbs, $40 for a SLAB:
https://www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-EXP12200-Rechargeable-Threaded-Terminals/dp/B00KC39BE6/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1511923984&sr=1-13&keywords=sealed+lead+acid+battery

Sure, you'd want to double up on it so as not to draw down a SLAB below 50%, but still... it's hard to beat being 5x cheaper.  250% heavier isn't great, 25 lbs is still luggable.  Toss in a 150 watt inverter and you're still under $100.

So many ways to work this problem though, so many options to consider.  The killer combo for Li batteries just hasn't come along yet, but it's getting there, it's getting there.

[Greekman]

The killer combo for Li batteries just hasn't come along yet, but it's getting there, it's getting there.

yes, i see the LiFePO4 as a better compromise between the Li-Cobalt and SLA....Not as energy dense (watts per weight) as LiCo but it is a good trade-off for more a more stable chemistry.

BUT....

  The math still does not add up as 36 batteries that are max rated at 3.5 amp hours ...might mean you get (if used beyond the 70% recommended maximum use for these cell) ...about 80 amp hours AT 3.7 VOLTS that will be about 20 Amp Hours at 12 volts for about 250 WATTS at 120 volts for ONE HOUR....unless your house is USB POWERED,the 120 Amp Hours means NOTHING.

Carl, one should expect draining the Lithium chemistries very low (to the expense of battery life).
Panasonic specs the NCR18650GA cells (used in the device) at a "Discharging End Voltage" of 2.5V but realistically discharging at 3.1V at 2Amp draw, will give you 11Wh per cell
(7th graph in http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Sanyo%20NCR18650GA%203500mAh%20%28Red%29%20UK.html)
36x11, gets us to the 400 mark
BTW "Continuous Discharge Current" for the cells is spec'ed at 10A

[Carl]

  I will just say that this is not the power source I would choose.

[Greekman]

for the price, me neither.
and maybe not for the 36 batteries (seems like they are 9inseries).

I purposely avoided making such power packs despite having around MANY 18650s for 10 years now.
( to demonstrate my point of view, i use this analogy when friends  praise the Tesla 18650 battery powered cars. I ask them if it is better to have 80 horses pulling their car or 8256 rabbits)

this device has what amounts to exactly 4 laptop batteries' energy (they usually have 9 cells wired 3s3p), and there is so much one can do with them.

The whole point of the original post was to demonstrate the trend.
(to me it is the case of the packaging and paraphernalia that worth more than the power source itself)

also, one should start with what he needs to power.
i think that there two points (practical uses) defining the backup power categories.
1. the ability to run a 12v fan and a 12V camper fridge
2. the ability to run an A+++ class medium sized fridge

[Carl]

  The technology is promising and I agree that the accessories often cost much more than the product. I suspect a viable NiMH (Nickle Metal Hydride) power pack will be produced at a reasonable price ,as the technology has been around for some time,well before the LARGE SCALE Lithium catches up .

[kid_couteau]

What I would like to see is a lithium style battery that is as easy to charge as a SLA type.

No special chargers or BMS.

Just hook it to my car with jumpers if needed and charge it up.

Again, I may be missing something.

[fratermus]

4s LiFePO4 can be dis/charged without BMS as long as

* current is sub 1C
* you stop at 13.8v and disconnect

Easiest way would be to use a DC-DC regulator set to 13.8v and give it time.
http://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?id=electrical:12v:lifepo4_batteries_thread#lifepo4_charging_for_rvsrunning_barefoot

My browser is acting weird or I'd make that a link.

Recently I bought a "used" 18.5Ah LiCo pack off Amazon for $99 with free shipping.  It looked new but was in an open box.  Once we consider lead-acid's 50% DoD and Li's ~85% usable capacity that's pretty close to the SLAB referred to above.

10Ah for $80 = $8.00/Ah
15Ah for $99 = $6.60/Ah, 250w PSW included (used)
15Ah for $220 = $15.73/Ah, as above but new

Admittedly the used one was a fluke but it was on the very first Li box I looked at. Not a big fan of 3s LiCo but I needed a small inverter anyhow.  And it's super portable.