Author Topic: Personal Protection in Car  (Read 1295 times)

Offline TxMom

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 362
  • Karma: 23
Personal Protection in Car
« on: January 26, 2018, 09:38:14 PM »
One of my daughters had a scare tonight, she was driving to her brother's to babysit while they had a night out.  Almost to his house a guy runs in front of her car, she slams on her brakes and he jumps in the back seat on the other side, blood on his face.  (She thought she had locked the doors, but guess not). He is yelling for her to just drive out of there, that someone is trying to kill him, just drive and he'll call 911.  Other guys get to the car and start yelling "He is a thief, he will steal your stuff, let us in."  They start trying to break her windows with elbows, did succeed in breaking a tail light.

She wasn't about to drive the bleeding stranger, possible thief anywhere, and miles from any police station.

She honks repeatedly and drives up in her brother's driveway.  He comes out and most of the guys go back across the street where they had been drinking and having a party, still some fighting going on over there, windows broken.  She calls 911.  Her 11 year old nephew comes out carrying a huge stick to protect his aunt until his dad makes him go back in.  Her brother then goes across the street to talk to his neighbors. Several guys jump in their cars and take off as he crosses the street.  The guy in the back says he is afraid they will mess with his truck or steal something out of it, jumps out of car and takes off too.

Other neighbors are out yelling at the boys and one calls the boys' grandpa (they work for his construction crew and he owns their trailer, rural neighborhood, over half of the neighbors belong to the one family).  Grandpa gets there before the police, party broken up by then. He will pay for new taillight.  (We know him, and he will and he will also do something about his grandsons)  Police are like if he doesn't  replace your light, please file charges.  The guys were too drunk to have a coherent conversation at this time.

She said it seemed like forever before the police got there, by that time almost everyone had taken off except the 2 who were very drunk, and they were back at their place.  We've not been able to talk her into carrying pepper spray but I think she will now.  And she will be more careful keeping her doors locked.  She is wondering how useful 911 is in an emergency since the neighborhood had settled down by the time they got there.  Sort of surprised the police didn't arrest anyone.

She isn't against carrying pepper spray now, but her question is would it have even been of use in this specific case? She didn't even know what was going on, if they were trying to kill the one guy, or if he was a thief.  None were threatening her other than trying to get to the guy bleeding in her back seat. But beating up on her car is not a good thing.  Should she have sprayed someone, if not, when should she use it?

Each case is different and hopefully she will never run into something like this again. What are some suggestions which would help any of us in similar circumstances?  Situational awareness should help and she didn't notice the fighting and wild party until the guy ran in front of her car, getting her to stop.

Offline Mr. Bill

  • Like a hot cocoa mojito
  • Administrator
  • Forum Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 14015
  • Karma: 1849
  • Trained Attack Sheepdog/Troll hunter
    • Website Maintenance and Online Presence Management by Mr. Bill
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 10:22:42 PM »
Wow, what a crazy incident.  I'm glad everyone is okay.

Honestly I would not have had the quickness of mind to decide what to do if I were in that situation, regardless of what I was armed with.

Offline TxMom

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 362
  • Karma: 23
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 11:57:59 PM »
I think she did good not to freak totally out and to get her brother's attention and call 911.


Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 13099
  • Karma: 710
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2018, 05:31:40 AM »
  At the time,she handled the situation well. Observation and security of the personal area could improve and though use of pepper spray in a vehicle would be like using a flame thrower and will involve everyone in the vehicle....sometimes you must to neutralize a situation. I suggest a KIMBER PEPPER BLASTER as a somewhat better alternative.

  https://www.amazon.com/Pepper-Blaster-II-LA98001-Kimber/dp/B003L75SSI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1517056062&sr=8-2&keywords=kimber+pepper+blaster

Offline fritz_monroe

  • The Defenestrator
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 8181
  • Karma: 145
    • The Homestead Fritz
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2018, 06:55:22 AM »
Wow, what a crazy situation.  I'm glad she didn't get hurt.

I think that she handled it pretty well.  She kept her head and attracted attention.  Now that this happened, she will likely always lock her doors.  So that part of securing her personal space is taken care of.

Many newer cars have doors that lock once you hit a certain speed (15 mph or so)  I don't know if it's possible to add this type of thing to a car aftermarket or not.  I know power locks can be added, but don't know if that includes locking at speed.

She would have pepper sprayed everyone in the car if she used pepper spray.  I didn't know that product that Carl posted existed, some of the complaints on it is it is a stream, so could be difficult to hit the target.  Since it's just 2 shots and not refillable, you can't really practice with it.

Offline AvenueQ

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 101
    • In Plain Sight
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2018, 08:26:00 AM »
My husband got us a couple of these to keep around the house: https://www.amazon.com/VIPERTEK-VTS-880-Mini-Rechargeable-Flashlight/dp/B01F4EM5N6?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01F4EM5N6

It's nice when he's gone for work, like this week. I also sometimes throw one in my purse if I know I'm going to be out late or in a not so great part of town (I carry pepper spray all the time). Not sure it would have helped in your daughter's situation, but it could be one more thing to have in her car just in case.

Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 13099
  • Karma: 710
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2018, 08:45:46 AM »
  I suggested the KIMBER PEPPER BLASTER above because it is easily utilized by feel and as it is not an aerosol spray,it is less likely to effect others in close quarters wile attracting some attention and disorienting the target with the pyrotechnic charge. It is a two shooter as,if there are MORE assailants,you have already lost and if you put a price on safety...$35 should be pretty cheap for a loved one.The pyrotechnics do not lose effectiveness like aerosols often do and the gun blast will disorient attackers to give one an edge to move away from danger. I know from actual use this device works. 

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2018, 03:58:14 PM »
I hope she files charges...Definitely scary.

Another reason to be virgilant and lock doors. To keep windows half up. To have situational awareness. Glad she basically had a safe house nearby with people home. And kept her head once the situation started.

Over the years I have carried multiple equalizers in my vehicles, both on purpose, and some which just entered the black hole of my vehicle and put a few thousand miles in, because I never took them out until the next vehicle cleaning. Some were meant to be defenders and deliberately put in,... some were farm, fiber art, sports equipment, which could easily double as  equalizers. A short 18" piece of metal pipe is probably better as a equalizer in the small area of a car interior, than a baseball bat.

For awhile my nail loom rode around with me. I have accidentally gouged myself on that thing enough, to know it would make a formible weapon. For about two years, I carried a pistol under my seat.

But remember, try to prevent... And any equalizer/protection can be used against you as well.

Cedar


Offline David in MN

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1367
  • Karma: 108
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2018, 05:29:46 PM »
If I'm in my car I have a vintage police baton under the seat and a Mora knife under the wheel. If I can't get to a pistol, I'm spinning around and stabbing at thighs and genitals. I worry about the legality but if my kid is in the car all bets are off. BUT my solutions rely on my ability to overpower an adversary.

I'd be very resistant to the "stun guns" marketed to women. I've been hit by more than one and very few have had any significant stopping power. Most are pretty weak and require hitting the assailant in the torso which means he likely is holding your neck. Better deterrent than actual weapon. Spinning around from the driver's seat means you're only hitting a thigh which will only be a painful violence escalation.

I have and carry a Kimber Pepper Blaster. I'm nervous to recommend it because I've tested one and it really is a Derringer. You hit good in two shots or you're um in a world of hurt. In the hands of a skilled user it's awesome but maybe not for everyone in the worst of circumstances.

I wouldn't feel bad having a strobe light as a deterrent. Especially at night it's a weird psychological tool both in and out of the car.

I'd add some mind-f___ery. At the onset of issues, screaming, "don't cut me, I have AIDS" is never a bad idea. Or claiming you can't be part of this or you'll lose your parole for killing another motherf____er. I also will revert to screaming in German. Americans will run through a pit of rattlesnakes to avoid a motivated German yelling names of root vegetables. Just imagine you jump in a car and the driver reacts by telling you "You the drop because I need the payoff for two keys bit__". I became the scarier person in the conversation instantly.

It's a mess and if baddie in the backseat pulls a Highpoint there's not much you can do. I'd prefer to appear weak rather than bossy but I would use my size to advantage. This is one of those tough questions.

Offline NWPilgrim

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1562
  • Karma: 111
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 05:18:02 AM »
Before discussing weapons or personal deterrents, she has to make locking doors automatic every single time.  I am a 6 ft guy and strong and armed and I still lock the doors immediately after closing them.  It is the single best thing you can do to buy yourself at least a few seconds to get the hell out of Dodge. But she did great thinking of her brother and reacting quickly to get there and make noise to bring help!

A weapon or other device is only as good as the mindset behind it.  She first has to decide she WILL protect herself and her kids even if ti means hurting other people.  If she is not willing to mentally accept that it is not only OK but her sacred duty to do so then any weapon she has may end up being used on her if she half heartedly wields it.  Once she has the "we won't be helpless victims" mindset, then ANYTHING is an advantage or bare hands. 

* The car is the most potent weapon immediately available.  Use it as one if necessary. First to flee if at all possible and then ram if cornered.

* 3-5 cell Maglite is like a yuppie lead pipe and useful otherwise.  As Cedar said a 18-24" steel pipe, breaker bar, framing hammer, old fashion night stick, police baton, or shortened length of shovel handle.

* Sheath knife or assisted opening knife of largest size she will accept or can manipulate in the car.  Fighting with a knife is an "all in" thing, very close and personal. Really got to mentally prepare that you are willing to stab or slice someone open if they are trying to harm you a kid. Main thing is to get one in a sheath that is quick access, or an after market kydex sheath.  I would think 4" minimum and more like 5"-7".  I do keep a Mora Bushcraft knife handy in the truck which is handy for lots of tasks, but would do for defense in a pinch.  I also have a K-Bar.

* A pistol is the ultimate equalizer, especially so for women and smaller men.  It will be very difficult for a person caught by surprise to physically confront and dominate an already amped up large male or group ready to do violence.  A gun allows you to keep distance unlike non-projectile weapons.  And it can deliver the most damage in the shortest time if you have some training and practice.

Whatever she agrees/decides to get, encourage her to try it out and practice.  That hammer is not magic just by holding it.  Smack some wood or a sandbag with it.  She will likely find it does not do much if you casually swing it.  Swing it like you intend for it to go through that sandbag/dirt bag scum.  Get a feel for how hard you have to swing it to mean it. Same with a knife (there is a reason military basic training during war time emphasize vigorous bayonet practice), it takes some serious effort to stick that sucker into a torso or neck and keep doing it until the person is down.  If using a pipe/baton, where is she going to strike?  The knees/elbows?  Head/neck? Diaphragm? face?

Keep the doors locked and mind play through scenarios if that happens again, or stranger approaches asking for help, or surrounded by a group, etc.  Might want to ask an attorney friend about consequences, and a police friend about what they are trained to do or what they see works or leads to failure.  I seriously doubt anyone in LE is going to have heartburn if a woman surrounded by violent men just steps on the gas.  Once they make entry into your car your options dwindle considerably, and your response is going to have to be much more determined.

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6691
  • Karma: 85
Re: Personal Protection in Car
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2018, 03:38:53 PM »
A medium sized stick is easy and cheap. You can practice with it by knocking dead branches off of trees. It will be faster to maneuver than a bat. A 30 inch long hardwood dowel or similar about 2 inches in diameter. Our state requires an FID for pepper spray.

Kung fu is a soft martial art suitable for women yet effective. You could try to find a teacher who might be interested in an emphasis on weapons training with sticks, some places don't teach that to beginners

There also seems to be many other styles of stick fighting out there

If someone threatens you in a car to take them someplace or else, maybe you could find a hill then with the car moving not too fast you jump out and let the car roll away down the hill while you run away. That would be an interesting legal case if they where injured and it went to court. Technically you broke the law but I don't know ? ? I guess however innocent bystanders could potential he be injured
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 04:11:07 PM by surfivor »