Author Topic: help with basics  (Read 1028 times)

Offline mountainmoma

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help with basics
« on: April 15, 2018, 08:34:21 PM »
I do alright shooting, but some things keep coming up that I need to work on

First, is by the end of training today, I was back to Limp wristing. SO, the question is, how to avoid that ? If I am not strong enough, what can be done off the range to make my wrists or strength there better ? Certainly, it has made me proficient at clearing stovepipe, but I think I've got that down.

I have an anticipation/flinch, this gets better with the day, after a few dozen rounds, so I think just practice will do there.

I have read some stuff on thumbs, but it seems I dont have alot of room for my left thumb. If it was over my right thumb, it would get cut by the slide. If Im not careful, the left hand position will be too rotated out and go towards teacupping, not near all the way, but towards that.

Just seems like I realy do not have a natural feel for where I want everything, so I have varience, and I know I should have one consistent way I hold the gun, nd use the sights.

Offline CarbideAndIron

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Re: help with basics
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 06:46:15 AM »
Start doing hangs from a pullup bar in the top or bottom position. Use which ever grip (palms towards you or away) is more comfortable for your wrists.
Farmers carries are also great for your grip. Use a 5 gal. water jug so you can adjust the weight. Just brace your abdominals, grab the water jugs, and walk for a set distance.
After doing those 2x a week for a couple weeks, racking the slide will feel effortless. I wont comment on actual pistol training, since I have my own bad habits I am working on.

Offline David in MN

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Re: help with basics
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 07:10:23 AM »
It's more likely you need to adjust your grip and stance. You should grip as high as humanly possible to be in line with the bore. If you could be in line with the bore the recoil would push straight back with no muzzle flip. We want to get as close to that as we can. So high grip.

Also use the isosceles position. A lot of people find the Weaver stance more comfortable but the isosceles aligns the bones so you need less muscle strength to shoot. You're relying on major muscles (deltoids and pectorals) to crush into the gun and push it forward, not minor muscles in the forearm.

If you still want stronger grip I learned long ago from wrestlers to spend a little time each day squeezing an old tennis ball. It's a pretty good grip workout if you do it for 15 minutes a day on each hand.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: help with basics
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 10:10:27 AM »
Start doing hangs from a pullup bar in the top or bottom position. Use which ever grip (palms towards you or away) is more comfortable for your wrists.
Farmers carries are also great for your grip. Use a 5 gal. water jug so you can adjust the weight. Just brace your abdominals, grab the water jugs, and walk for a set distance.
After doing those 2x a week for a couple weeks, racking the slide will feel effortless. I wont comment on actual pistol training, since I have my own bad habits I am working on.

I can easily rack the slide. Unfortuneately, the two excercises you mentioned I couldnt possibly do as I have neck/shoulder issues

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: help with basics
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 10:42:34 AM »
It's more likely you need to adjust your grip and stance. You should grip as high as humanly possible to be in line with the bore. If you could be in line with the bore the recoil would push straight back with no muzzle flip. We want to get as close to that as we can. So high grip.

Also use the isosceles position. A lot of people find the Weaver stance more comfortable but the isosceles aligns the bones so you need less muscle strength to shoot. You're relying on major muscles (deltoids and pectorals) to crush into the gun and push it forward, not minor muscles in the forearm.

If you still want stronger grip I learned long ago from wrestlers to spend a little time each day squeezing an old tennis ball. It's a pretty good grip workout if you do it for 15 minutes a day on each hand.

I will look for a tennis ball. I dont do much with my upper body, so I do not likely have much strength in those major muscles. I could join a gym and go to some of the machines, I did that a bit years ago, you know with zero or 5 lbs settings, you build up. Wait, maybe  I should just take time each day to hold my pistol out, in the correct position ?

I do think I have an inconsistent grip, I do face forward, straight on, usually, when shooting, not when peaking around a barrel doing action of course. But when facing a target, I definitely have a "passive" stance compared to somes agressive stances. I was thinking I should get my hand position and sight picture to be consistent first ? I literally see things different, not consistently when getting a site picture, I like to have one eye closed, which I do with a rifle, but I think I remember that I should have both open ?

I have tried looking up hand position, and it did show my left thumb should be straight forward, and that given where my "grouping" is that I likely do not have pressure on the left hand countering the right enough, so I have done some practice making sure to put pressure there.  The hand position pictures I saw it seemed I wasnt matching, but maybe close enough.

What might be helpful is knowing which web site people are the "right ones" for good information, there is alot out there.

Yesterday, I was nervous and a bit wild at first, settled down and hit in the 8's , then when I got tired, started stovepiping, by the end, almost every time and my left wrist hurt. Which was too bad, as last time up was my turn at our 1 at a time action scenario.... I got nervous and cleared my stovepipes, a type 2 problem, using the type 3 method of dropping my magazine, so....I was shortly out of magazines ( I only have 3). There's a good way to die, throw away your ammo....but, luckily old ladies like me arent being ccw heros out in the streets ( but ya never know, if stuck in an active shooter scenario, we would want to save our life) not likely, more likely in a home invasions, but an awkward clearing there would cost time that could kill you, esp since at home there is often just the one mag and you arent carrying around 2 spares. The whole time yesterdy morning was practice clearing of these errors. So now, when I go to the range for the rest of this month, my homework is to practice that some more. You see, I did fine clearing these in the appropriate way on the line, but when under stress, did not evaluate correctly.

Offline Carl

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Re: help with basics
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 11:01:48 AM »
I do alright shooting, but some things keep coming up that I need to work on

First, is by the end of training today, I was back to Limp wristing. SO, the question is, how to avoid that ? If I am not strong enough, what can be done off the range to make my wrists or strength there better ? Certainly, it has made me proficient at clearing stovepipe, but I think I've got that down.

With an EMPTY GUN,use the gun to support a weight  with a strap over the end of the muzzle,this will aide grip and proper follow thru to decrease the anticipation and flinching ,don't start too heavy and slowly your ability to hold weight for extended times will greatly aide in maintaining sight stability and a slow,steady pull of the trigger will begin to show smaller groups and less flinch

I have an anticipation/flinch, this gets better with the day, after a few dozen rounds, so I think just practice will do there.

I have read some stuff on thumbs, but it seems I dont have alot of room for my left thumb. If it was over my right thumb, it would get cut by the slide. If Im not careful, the left hand position will be too rotated out and go towards teacupping, not near all the way, but towards that.

I have always just pressed the left thumb against the left index finger to be clear the weapon yet add to the pressure applied by the left hand for solid control. When you beging the grip and weight exercise ,your hands may 'feel the burn' as you strengthen muscles,this is normal

Just seems like I realy do not have a natural feel for where I want everything, so I have varience, and I know I should have one consistent way I hold the gun, nd use the sights.

It can take years to feel 'natural' with a handgun,but with added weight and the grip required to control the added weight...you will speed the improvement Also practice moving from target to target with the extra grip and weight and your control muscles will gain swiftly

Offline armymars

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Re: help with basics
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 11:58:22 AM »
  One old way to make your grip stronger is to wing up a rope with a weight on the end. You could do this siting down at arms length with your wrists over the back of a chair to save your neck and shoulders.
  Winding up just 18" with a weight on the end two or three times a day will increase strength in your wrists.
  Last is how you hold your gun. When you watch TV and see the bad guys hold their guns on there side it's not just for show. The Israelis came up with this for small women and large kids. It locks the wrists so you can't limp wrist the gun. Just think, bad guys are using a gun hold meant for kids and small woman. Grin   

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: help with basics
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 12:06:29 PM »
Thanks Carl and ArmyMars, those 2 ideas are doable and should help, and also the tennis ball for grip strength