Author Topic: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy  (Read 2261 times)

Offline Polar Bear

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California houses 12% of the US population and contributed 16% of all US job growth between 2012 and 2017.  California's GDP is now over $2.7 Trillion dollars.

United States, China, Japan, and Germany are the only economies higher.   Canada, Russia, India, Australia, Saudi Arabia, and Dubai all have lower GDPs.

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/386372-california-becomes-the-worlds-fifth-biggest-economy

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 02:25:52 PM »
California is running a multi billion dollar budget surplus, too. 

Offline Polar Bear

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 03:09:14 PM »
Amazing!   8)

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2018, 03:19:12 PM »
California is running a multi billion dollar budget surplus, too.

So, since we are running a surplus, we :
- we say we do not have enough money to take care of the mentally ill and do not have sufficient state and county institutions
- we do not fund the senior/low income property tax exemption ( the one passed under governor deukmajian, not repealed, just not funded and ignored)
- Raised gas taxes, even though present gas tax receipts do not all go to road repair
- put no money in the budget for school building repair, so that constant local taxes are imposed

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2018, 03:54:46 PM »
So, since we are running a surplus, we :
- we say we do not have enough money to take care of the mentally ill and do not have sufficient state and county institutions
- we do not fund the senior/low income property tax exemption ( the one passed under governor deukmajian, not repealed, just not funded and ignored)
- Raised gas taxes, even though present gas tax receipts do not all go to road repair
- put no money in the budget for school building repair, so that constant local taxes are imposed

I don't doubt that is true, but California is seen as a debt running state, irresponsible spending, etc to many middle Americans and mountain westerners.  This is something worth pointing out to net takers of government funding red states who think they are bastions of financial responsibility. 

You couldn't pay me to live in Cali, and lots of people are leaving it, but it's important to see the picture clearly.

Offline Mintbird

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2018, 04:04:38 PM »
Not to mention the CalPERS pension crisis!

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 04:08:23 PM »
I don't doubt that is true, but California is seen as a debt running state, irresponsible spending, etc to many middle Americans and mountain westerners.  This is something worth pointing out to net takers of government funding red states who think they are bastions of financial responsibility. 

You couldn't pay me to live in Cali, and lots of people are leaving it, but it's important to see the picture clearly.

oh, well, Ca is not a debt running State, although it does have many cities on the verge of bankruptcy. Governor Brown has been very fiscally conservative, as many past Governors have been. It is what has traditionally saved the state, that and all the rich Hollywood, Silicon Valley,etc... people who pay an awful lot of state taxes.

I do not know that CA is some kind of net giver to the rest of the nation, hmmm.... well, alot of rich people live here who pay alot of federal income taxes ( and state income/property/sales taxes). On the other hand, we have an awful lot of people who use medicaid and food stamps and other federal government programs, SSI, subsidized housing, subsidized utilities,  etc.... Especially medicaid. We push very hard to maximize the amount of people to receive federal benefits
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:13:26 PM by mountainmoma »

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2018, 04:11:48 PM »
Not to mention the CalPERS pension crisis!

yes, but that also is  drain locally as school districts are run and budgeted by county, Police, Sherrifs, firefighters are again local, city and county. SO, it is our cities and counties in budgetary crisis, not the State government who receives and then doles out all the income and sales taxes. We have an awful lot of taxes.

So, we can easily have the State government budget balanced, but have counties and cities going broke, both are true.

Also, while we may have a momentary surplus, we have alot of state bond debt. We make payments on this debt, and we are making our payments, but like any budget, how much do we owe compared to our income stream ? This is why Gov. Brown has kept the lid on spending to some small extent, it is plain to see we are in a housing bubble, and prudent budgeting means we should have some reserves for the next time incoming taxes fall due to the next downturn. I think realy, like all the other states, we actually are over leveraged in terms of outstanding debt, so having some surplus now is good, but I doubt we are going to use it to reduce our debt.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:21:35 PM by mountainmoma »

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2018, 04:33:58 PM »
https://taxfoundation.org/federal-taxes-paid-vs-federal-spending-received-state-1981-2005

while CA may boast on this, given that we have such high GDP, it is not that great. All states should be much lower than this, as Federal programs that do not give money back to the states are actually the ones that need funding, ie., are the programs within the perview of the Federal Government ! ( Ie., border security, military, Federal court systems, Federal prisons and Federal Law enforcement, International relations, International aid, other Diplomatic efforts, running the federal programs )

So, CA used to take back more federal money than it gave the Federal government until the start of the tech businesses in the 19080's. Last data here is from 2005, which has CA taking back, directly, 78% of the federal taxes it pays out. Given the Federal employees who run these programs, our share of the money the Fed goverment needs to run the welfare programs it pasy out to Californians is likely as much or more than the remaining 22%, meaning we are not in any way supporting the other states, we are not paying our share even of the Fed government expenses, and no state is ! That is why the Country is running at a deficeit. I just had tho put this in as many CA people think that they are funding programs in other states, in other words, we know we pay out alot of taxes due to the money being made here. The other fallacy some CA think is that if we were our own country ( ignoring for the moment all the other reasons this will not happen) that we would have more money. Nope, because we already take back (given operating expenses) all the money we send to washington, and there is still Defense, border security, International relations, and the costs of what is now Federal law enforcement/courts

And, although I linked a bunch of charts, to me they are kind of meaningless, as I do not know the details ! IS a military base in a state counted in this federal money spent in the state ? Is Farm subsidies that benefit the Nation as a whole counted to the state with the farm animals ? etc.....
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:43:33 PM by mountainmoma »

Offline surfivor

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2018, 02:19:34 PM »
 Just think of all the food that gets thrown away because it's past expiration date and all the stuff that gets thrown away at the dump that has some use. At some point as the homeless population keeps burgeoning maybe you wonder if the risk of giving it to poor people outweighs the risk of having them go without or becoming a huge burden on the system ?

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 02:49:07 PM »
Just think of all the food that gets thrown away because it's past expiration date and all the stuff that gets thrown away at the dump that has some use. At some point as the homeless population keeps burgeoning maybe you wonder if the risk of giving it to poor people outweighs the risk of having them go without or becoming a huge burden on the system ?

we already have some very efficient systems for this in this area. No one goes hungry, food is easy to get, so much so that our population of folks in line at food banks are actually quite picky and would like organic please -- ok, some of them. Others realy like the day old baked goods. Anyways, there are food giveaways constantly, and systems that glean from farmers and grocers and farmers markets. One of our larger food gleaning operations which delivers to seniors was an early adopter of composting, and has an innovated, large worm composting system for the food that is too far gone to distribute. This is a very easy area for getting food. But, our CA social services are worried that our population that qualifies is not signing up in greater numbers for food stamps ! They are worried as they dont like to leave potential federal funds un-taken, there is no evidence of hunger anywhere. If someone is hungry, it is that they are too out of it to partake, but we so many outreach workers roaming the streets looking for those, it is unlikely they are doing without.

Offline David in MN

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 03:01:54 PM »
There's lots of issues in calculating GDP. Building an empty house contributes (empty cities too if you ask the Chinese). One could also artificially benefit from having high housing costs. Having government facilities count and having ports is a big help. It also could contain errors like massive production with no savings.

A lot of the wealth in California can't leave. It's still a big farming state and produces some of the world's best wine. That won't change easily. There's only one place you can grow Knight's Valley cabernet. But Hollywood and Silicon Valley could be lured out. There's always some slack for businesses coming and going.

It's really hard to accurately calculate how well a region is doing economically. GDP is horribly inaccurate but it's often the best we have. I suspect if I dug into California's income distribution there would be some long tail effects.

All that said, it's still a good sign and I hope that Californians are feeling a better standard of living.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 09:31:54 AM »
As to feeling a better standard of living, well, maybe in some areas, but the greater SF Bay area is, I think, not for most people, it is too crowded and expensive, but people do alright or others get by, of course, I would not say the standard of living has gone up

SO, I came back to this thread this morning as this mornings news was about CA Democratic state rep's clamoring to spend our budget surplus. No surprise there.

I still do not like our news reporting, no mention is made in the article of the actual budget and long term outlook, they just report that there is disagreement, and a surplus. No mention of the debt we carry, or that we have initiatives on the ballot to borrow more money to pay for infrastructure that needs fixing. SO, we should borrow more money, keep making minimum payments, underfund our retirement accounts, not set money aside for a downturn, and give it all away.

Well, if I use a household budget as an analogy; We have a mortgage, student loans and quite alot of credit card debt, but we are making our minimum payments on them. We are also behind on saving for retirement. Work  has been good the past couple years, so we have saved up a small amount of money. Now the household is disagreeing on what to do with it. We all know that prudence would dictate having at least 3 months worth of expenses set aside, shoring up our retirement accounts, and maybe even paying off some of that debt. But, no, the rest of the family wants to spend it all now. Spend it all now, and take out more loans.

I am sure this call to spend will increase as we go into our election cycle for a new governor. We will find out next week, but most likely the 2 candidates allowed to go forward running for governor will be 2 of the most liberal spending Democrats we have seen in this state, and my bet is that they will be trying to out do each other with promises of new giveaway programs and spending

Offline surfivor

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Re: California retakes it's position as fifth largest global economy
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2018, 11:45:27 PM »
I heard CA and some other places have made it illegal to sleep in a car, RV, van, or anywhere in public and have banned feeding the homeless without a $500 permit. That seems rather oppressive. People sleep in their car all the time in rest areas while on trips or in the parking lot at work during lunch. It sounded like you could go to jail for sleeping in your car