Author Topic: New wildfire In Greece  (Read 2009 times)

Offline Greekman

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 191
  • New TSP Forum member
New wildfire In Greece
« on: July 24, 2018, 05:24:28 AM »
I am collecting pcs for an article i will be making for my blog, so it is a good chance to share with you.

So 2 days ago, a wildfire burst near a row of seaside villages, which were full of people for the weekend.
the winds pushed the flames upon the houses and reached all over the sea. People went into the water, some where even drowned being carried miles away by the currents.
body count is 50 (rumor of the hour says 100)



















Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3639
  • Karma: 300
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2018, 06:42:51 AM »
Wow.  What were the conditions before this occured?  That had to be intense with so many people on hand yet it couldnt be stopped.

Offline David in MN

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 2113
  • Karma: 162
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2018, 07:01:30 AM »
Possibly the worst possible time of year... I'm guessing there was massive congestion because everybody (me included) wants to be on the Greek coast for summer. What a terrible disaster. Thoughts and prayers.

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3639
  • Karma: 300
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2018, 10:24:27 AM »
Never seen anything like this.  The gale force wind intensified it to such a degree that the Hellenic Fire Service couldnt contain it despite valliant efforts. Utility poles acted like matches lined up. Much faster than what we tend to see in the US.

Offline Greekman

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 191
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 01:24:24 PM »
some notes to make sense of the pics I posted. And take away some paradigms to heed.

https://img.aspr.gr/images/2018/07/24/web-mati.jpg

this is a pic of the burned region. notice the housing density, the narrow roads, and the particular road direction. West to east, the fire coming by gale winds from the west.

A look at the burned car pics, will show that they were parallel parked on both sides of the streets with few space left for a single lane, much less 2 lane traffic.

https://img.aspr.gr/images/2018/07/24/web-mati-region.jpg

and this is a wider caption. with green line I marked last years wildfire. It pays to get lessons from past events.
the state failed too.
By grave coincidence, few days ago, on the weather prediction page of the state Meteorological service, a model of wildfire progression was posted for a similar region. Seems no one payed attention.

- The fire rampaged so fast through the housed area that people run for their lives, with no plan and to no particular direction, other than the sea. But a group of 26 run for a field, only to find it surrounded by trees and the only open side was a cliff hanging over the sea. they were found burned huddled together.

- things remained crazy and people were evacuate in every possible way and given refuge or hospitalized to whatever place was available. I happened to hear an official shy away from a question whether there were lists made of what camp hosted who. there haven't.
People have resorted to the help of the media and internet to locate their relatives.

- what that particular fire was, is a firestorm. A rare event that cost the lives of 19 US firemen in 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm.
The wind was gusting at 66 miles per hour, it jumped from tree top to tree top, and the fire traveled at the speed of a car. it was going so fast that trees were burned form one side only.

- remarkably houses made of brick and concrete (like the tall one on the pics) remained unscathed while the fire went around them.
A specialist said that people would better seek refuge in them, but this is counter intuitive, isn't it?

Offline AvenueQ

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1478
  • Karma: 103
    • In Plain Sight
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2018, 05:29:19 PM »
Wow. I've seen some bad ones here in the western US, but nothing that cuts directly through a population center like that. While there's some preparation for fires here, there's definitely a lot of normalcy bias in the more populated areas. No one would be ready for something like that to happen here, though I could see it happening through some chain of freak occurrences.

Offline FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6085
  • Karma: 771
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 05:58:41 PM »
Scary.  Reminds me of the Napa Valley fires in October 2017, which also developed and spread so rapidly through developed neighborhoods that the survivors were lucky to flee with just the clothes on their backs.  Those fires caused 44 deaths and destroyed over 8000 homes.

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3639
  • Karma: 300
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2018, 06:08:48 PM »
Oh my.  On radio they are saying it may have been eco-terrorism.  BBC reporting it seems to have been deliberately set.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-44971351

Greek fires: Blaze that killed 83 'caused by arson'

Greece has "serious indications" that a fire that killed at least 83 people near Athens earlier this week was started deliberately, Citizen Protection Minister Nikos Toskas says.

Offline Greekman

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 191
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2018, 08:53:31 AM »
well...
this was the second fire in the same day, hours after the first one on the other side of the Athens peninsula.
People claim to have heard small explosions at the fire's starting point, which indicates a tried method of arson. A soak rag in diesel wrapped around a bunch of butane canisters.
Questions are:
1- who had the interest to....
2- can we trust a failed state's claim?


Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7260
  • Karma: 603
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2018, 06:04:05 PM »
So sorry to see this devastation and loss of life, Greekman...

Offline Greekman

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 191
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2018, 01:34:53 AM »
thank you all for being considerate.
I am hearing that Cali is similarly tormented...
I guess it is the curse of the pine tree..

Offline Greekman

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 191
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2018, 10:05:05 AM »
tragic....
Greek wildfires: Drivers 'sent into path of blaze by police'
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-45030082?__twitter_impression=true


Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 7260
  • Karma: 603
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2018, 04:52:24 PM »
Wow... that is terrible, Greekman. I hope they develop better procedures for the next time a fire like this occurs... it sounds like a real communication breakdown.

Offline Greekman

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3729
  • Karma: 191
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: New wildfire In Greece
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2018, 11:54:31 PM »
I will remain skeptical on this. They are SO worthless.
i.e. it turned out they
- did not have accurate view of the situation. No satellite images. no metereological data, maybe not even no boots on the ground.
- they assumed that the fire would stop on the county road. Failing to consider that on each end there were pine trees as tall as the road width.
- just last year the fire service and police bought many UAVs but failed to buy service and support for them. And crashed some too. As a result there were No flyable craft to use.
- failed to use procedures
- failed in organization. The law dictates that each county's service are responsible, unless the fire affects the next county. Then state Civil protection takes control. With no accurate picture it IS possible they did not know who would order whom.
Pathetic.