Author Topic: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers  (Read 6154 times)

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2019, 12:14:14 AM »
Pardon my digression, but I recently had a conservation with a trans-man in my office.  "He" was explaining how it can be damaging to raise children with gender roles.  It was a civil discussion, but at the end I saw the paradox.  If gender is a construct, why is it so important for you to identify as a Male and have coworkers treat you the same?

I may not live to find the answer...

I'm totally fine with men doing feminine things and vice versa. "Fine" in that it's not my business. I feel better knowing my wife can change a tire, unload a gun and file our taxes.  Somehow I'm still in charge of dealing with spiders in the house and investigating strange noises st night.

Offline Redman

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2019, 03:04:20 AM »
I can't even be bothered to watch the ad that's driving this discussion.  Now this is an ad for something I can get onboard with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzC47F1DTO8&frags=pl%2Cwn

^^^This. I haven't seen nor wanted to see the ad behind the discussion. Now the ad AG posted  :happydance:. Former user of that product because it worked for me and much less expensive. it is not a P&G product BTW. Using soap and a brush now, even less expensive. Isn't that what folks should be about, product that works well and the least cost.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2019, 04:20:51 AM »
Isn't that what folks should be about, product that works well and the least cost.

Yep.

Would anyone secure in their masculinity give a rat's ass about advertising? 



#BroFlakes

Offline Redman

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2019, 05:07:31 AM »
Yep.

Would anyone secure in their masculinity give a rat's ass about advertising? 



#BroFlakes

Depends on the rat's ass.  :rofl:

Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2019, 02:36:24 PM »
Bud Light is the latest.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bud-light-super-bowl-commercial-093322528.html

Ummm... lots of brewers use corn sugar because it ferments almost 100% and has low off flavors. We all know Miller and Coors use corn and Budweiser uses rice. But Budweiser is brewed in the heart of corn country. Their consumers must involve in corn production.

I don't understand this marketing wave of crapping on core customers. Bud Light isn't looking to win at the trendy cocktail bar. Why try to win where it doesn't matter and your facts are deceitful?

Offline AvenueQ

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2019, 07:07:57 PM »
Why try to win where it doesn't matter and your facts are deceitful?

Because millennials are into "dunking" on stuff they don't like, so therefore it's a valid marketing strategy.

(not really, but that's what out-of-touch marketing people seem to think :wut: ).

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2019, 11:21:21 AM »
Bud Light is the latest.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bud-light-super-bowl-commercial-093322528.html

Ummm... lots of brewers use corn sugar because it ferments almost 100% and has low off flavors. We all know Miller and Coors use corn and Budweiser uses rice. But Budweiser is brewed in the heart of corn country. Their consumers must involve in corn production.

I don't understand this marketing wave of crapping on core customers. Bud Light isn't looking to win at the trendy cocktail bar. Why try to win where it doesn't matter and your facts are deceitful?

As a casual home brewer, most any book or instruction on bottling home brewed beer recommends "priming sugar" aka corn sugar.  It's a known reliable way to achieve the desired carbonation in bottles.

Budweiser should be more ashamed about using rice.  WTF?  Of all the goofy fermentables, they use rice?


Online iam4liberty

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2019, 02:10:32 PM »
Holy cow.  Talk about tackling a subject head on:

https://youtu.be/BwSvQwuPcR4

Online iam4liberty

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2019, 07:22:59 PM »
KABOOM!  Video game company Activision Blizzard is laying off ~800 SGA staff.  Blizzard has had a very contentious relationship with their customers flatlining revenue and missing financial growth targets. Stock value dropped 50%.  They essentially stopped innovating their products and instead pushed a political agenda.  Now they are slashing that staff and increasing developers 20% so as to jumpstart product line. 

Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2019, 01:42:01 PM »
KABOOM!  Video game company Activision Blizzard is laying off ~800 SGA staff.  Blizzard has had a very contentious relationship with their customers flatlining revenue and missing financial growth targets. Stock value dropped 50%.  They essentially stopped innovating their products and instead pushed a political agenda.  Now they are slashing that staff and increasing developers 20% so as to jumpstart product line.

In their latest Call of Duty multiplayer they eliminated the swastikas and had black SS soldiers. While many players shrugged it off plenty felt that the experience had been adversely effected. Reading between the lines it seems some of these questions were real debates in the development team. This seems odd. Going all the way back to Wolfenstein FPS games have done everything possible to make levels creepy and use very dark imagery. Sounds like they have really missed the mark.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2019, 03:06:39 PM »
In their latest Call of Duty multiplayer they eliminated the swastikas and had black SS soldiers. While many players shrugged it off plenty felt that the experience had been adversely effected. Reading between the lines it seems some of these questions were real debates in the development team. This seems odd. Going all the way back to Wolfenstein FPS games have done everything possible to make levels creepy and use very dark imagery. Sounds like they have really missed the mark.

They just announced they will have no major releases for 2019.  They are regrouping.  Imagine adding 10 million+ active customers in a year and having revenue not move.  Cash flow actually fell by $400 million.  They are learning that adding new customers at the expense of alienating existing high revenue, low expense base is not a path to growth.  So they are going to invest this year in refreshing their titles the way gamers want.  I am rooting for them to succeed.  Politics out, fun in.

Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2019, 03:37:18 PM »
A recent Econtalk podcast with LEGENDARY guest Mike Munger touched on this. The host, Russ Roberts, confessed that he drives a Ford in part because they didn't get the BS bailouts that Chevy and GM got. Gotta say that sits in the back of my head too. And I drive a Ford now.

They also touched on how the banks are so hated for their bailouts. The industry took a PR hit for being bad with money. And it is a fair question. Why did we bail out the lenders and not the homeowners?

Also raises a great economics question: Why do we tip a waiter while traveling? If I'm in Phoenix for one day surely it would be economically better to stiff the waitstaff. But only a jerk would do it.

While the show was about the necessity of rent-seeking and whether we've gone too far the point is the same. It's easy to tarnish public image.

Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2019, 08:16:47 AM »
Tim Pool on how Facebook has done itself in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R81U0sRHU8


Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2019, 08:25:59 AM »
Feeling depressed? Maybe you should seek a qualified therapist. Or just go to Burger King.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/5/2/18527110/burger-king-unhappy-meals-steakumms-sad-brand-twitter

I guess sandwiches cure depression just like conversations while waiting for an iced macchiato will cure racism. As someone who has dealt with depression (and don't we all at some point) this feels like medically bad advertising.

And what kind of message is this really? Come to Burger King where you can shuffle through the door like all the other mentally shattered people in hopes a sandwich will cure your burdens?

There must be a marketing school preaching this nonsense. Why would Burger King want to make their restaurant less fun than the waiting room of an ER? I realize it's physically impossible to look like He-Man or Barbie but at least they look good. Now everybody walking into Burger King gets the mental patient stigma. Maybe I'm an upbeat happy dude who just loves a whopper now and again. The most disaffected dude in my generation still shot heroin and banged Courtney Love.

I don't know where this comes from. I'm waiting for McDonald's response of "the Big Mac tastes better than the window you've been licking." The only way to one up "Burger King, the place for depressives."

I'm half tempted to audit marketing courses. Jesus even anti-depressant medications know to advertise a happy lady skipping in a field of fresh flowers. These companies want their brands associated with rape and mental illness? I might be disgusted by prison rape but I'm not about to put a "think about prison rape" sticker on tables I sell.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2019, 09:40:34 AM »
Even when I try to be objective about things, it truly feels like there's an evil force that's determined for me to feel "wrong".

My workplace is very progressive and inclusive. Honestly I'm okay with 85% of it. I can be professional, and maintain composure through a lot. As long as my colleagues are thoughtful and accountable to their work, I really don't care about much else. Last year we had a trans-woman (that means the person was born male and no identifies as female) come to our office for a presentation on gender identity.  I did learn a lot about terminology used within that community. I also privately decided that if a biological female REALLY wants to dress like a male, use male pronouns, etc. I can do that if it matters so much. However when this guest speaker said that gender is fluid, and every day I should ask the person what their preferred pronouns were - I call bullshit.  It's one thing to have a preference, "I prefer you call me African American, not black".  But waking up every day, and grabbing random scrabble tiles to name the gender of the day is either mental illness, or a severe personality flaw.

I'm convinced it's a way to keep the cis/white/male on their toes, in a state of perpetual defense.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2019, 10:39:31 AM »
Just a quick update.  P&G grooming sales plummeted 8% vs previous year.  It was the only group with a sales decline in all of P&G.  Now analysts are questioning whether P&G should even stay in this category or sell off business and move on.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/04/23/should-p-g-exit-the-shaving-business.html

Should P&G exit the shaving business?

Procter & Gamble’s chief financial officer said April 23 the company remains committed to the Grooming division despite disappointing sales.
...
The Cincinnati-based maker of Gillette razors and Braun electric shavers (NYSE: PG) reported net sales of $1.4 billion for the Grooming business in the recently ended third quarter, down 8 percent from last year.
...
Organic sales for Grooming were down 1 percent in the quarter that ended in March. By comparison, Beauty’s organic sales were up 9 percent, Fabric & Home Care’s increased 7 percent, Health Care’s rose 5 percent and Baby, Feminine & Family Care’s were up 2 percent.

Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2019, 09:05:15 AM »
I've dealt with the cesspool that forms around middle management and HR before. To the point that my manager took me to a sit down with HR because I had a "violence problem" that turned out to be little more than a discussion of me taking boxing classes after work and an embarrassment for all involved. Long story short I got a new manager (from Trinidad) who loved boxing and she and I got along famously.

Those who have never worked a modern corporate job can't understand the Hell of "inclusive training". It's like 4 hours of boring powerpoints and stupido worksheets in order to not be a horrible prejudiced person. And then they force you to talk about "what you learned that day" to complete the Stalinist indoctrination. And there's no out. I could show pictures of me with my uncle and his husband but I still need to be "educated" on how to treat gay people. It is so insulting to anyone with even a hint of decency. There's also the feeling that I'm doing experimental research on dangerous industrial machinery and I need to take a few hours to be taught by a 400 pound purple haired girl with a gender studies degree from her safety school. HR has done the magnificent job of elevating those who can't make the world work.

And we live good or bad in the era where office politics and policies are becoming news. The tech companies are clearly burssting at the seams this way and it's bad publicity. I don't know why Jack Dorsey went on Joe Rogan's podcast to let Tim Pool castigate him but he did. It's becoming clear there is an issue.

But all this stuff is goofy internal crap. You'll never see a marketer release the internal "inclusive training" documents. It's offensive and insulting in its pedantic view of the average person. Just imagine how warped your mind must be to think that you have to tell people "rape is bad" or how demented you have to be to think that even the Nazis should have been an inclusive group welcoming black SS officers. Just imagine being so PC that you can't portray historical Nazis as racist. Why not make video games about Rommel's legendary Jewish Corps? It's so insulting to the consumer but these companies are falling over each other to make the most insulting pedantic humdrum adverts.

I own a business. It's a small woodwork operation. I have made everything from basic cutting boards to elaborate live edge tables. If you are my customer or even my prospective customer you are the smartest, kindest, best looking, wise beyond your years person and I want to deliver on your expectations with something that blows your mind. I might have things I care about but on delivery of a custom picture frame I'm not bringing up prison rape or the genocide in Yemen. It's not germain to the transaction. This is the thing I can't wrap my head around. Why associate your brand with any negativity? And in a nation wide branding spot? A businessperson's job is to MAKE MONEY. Not sell a distorted political view. This flies in the face of everything I know of business.

Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2019, 09:38:58 AM »
Disney and Netflix enter the fray. They're discussing not filming in states (Georgia) with contravertial abortion bans.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/30/business/disney-bob-iger-abortion-georgia/index.html

I don't know what the root cause is here because as a business you don't want to touch abortion with a 10 foot pole. Basically you pick one side or the other and you either want women enslaved or babies murdered. Bob Iger is way smarter than this. Especially with a company like Disney that caterss to young parents. And I'm pretty sure Netflix has filmed in Malaysia where it's still a crime to be gay so their moral compass only applies here?

It's a very strange hill to die on. I can't imagine that Star Wars will now involve a Rey abortion. The jokes write themselves but what idiot would make his children's movies and theme parks built on the cornerstone of abortion rights? The abortion people um don't have kids. And why do I need to have a Hollywood agreed upon abortion stance to enjoy Cinderella?

I can't understand why we're falling on our swords for political positions. I don't care what you believe if you make a good sandwich. And I'd be real careful if I ran a company founded by a notorious anti-Semite who made cartoons in the 30s that were a "touch" racist.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2019, 09:39:06 AM »
I've watched it, but haven't really followed the social response to the new Gillette "trans-boy" shaving ad. 
Like abortion, it feels like we have to publicly take a position and die for it. 

These are cheap, lazy and actually safe moves for corporate ad campaigns.  It's pride month, gay marriage is the law in all states, but that tooth paste ad featuring a same-sex couple is "stunning and brave".  If they did this 20 years back, there could be an argument.

Maybe I'm old school, but the right thing is the right thing, even if it's not also the popular thing at the time.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2019, 11:05:31 AM »
I've watched it, but haven't really followed the social response to the new Gillette "trans-boy" shaving ad. 

It was actually well received according to attitudinal data. The sales data isnt released yet but should be better than prior campaign.  They went with a much more aspirational approach than a degrading one.  That seems to be the lesson learned, inclusiveness should be about creating relevant, posive experiences for praoduct/brand in different peoples lives.  It shouldnt be about advancing one group's political  agenda over another (or in prior Gillette campaign, over everyone else).

Offline Greekman

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2019, 01:36:53 AM »
AS bit of late posting but I think it worths, cos i have to offer a different perspective.

Gillette and the likes may loose a battle but they are winning the war on masculinity.

let me validate this.
I have a friend in a high position in a BIG clothing firm, gay coupled owned and very gay friendly, to the extend of sponsoring the gay parades.
When we discussed the subject matter he position was clear.
Big firms like his, WANT to feminize men cos then they spent as big as women. So they push
As you know women tend to spend more on ephemeral goods while men on more constant/durating value ones. (This is not gender profiling, this is statistics).
I guess this makes things more clear.

P&G may have screwed up in Gillette sales, but further down the road it will earn much more by its Shampoos

Offline The Professor

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2019, 09:44:16 AM »
AS bit of late posting but I think it worths, cos i have to offer a different perspective.

Gillette and the likes may loose a battle but they are winning the war on masculinity.

. . .snip. . .

P&G may have screwed up in Gillette sales, but further down the road it will earn much more by its Shampoos

I believe it.  Imagine trying to sell "Axe" body spray in the 50's.  Or, man-buns in the 1940's.

Historically, it has been suggested that even in the most masculine of cultures, such as those of what we call The Vikings, the men kept themselves on a "beauty regimen" that surpassed those of women.  This is/was especially prevalent in the mid-to-upper socioeconomic classes.  We men are just as vain, if not more so, than women.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm late for my Mani and Pedi.

The Professor

Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2019, 08:23:16 AM »
And Cadbury joins the ranks of preaching to its customers.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/30/india/cadbury-unity-bar-india-scli-intl/index.html

Its "Unity Bar" has different colors of chocolate to [I guess] call out the different hues of human skin. For the India market. Did they leverage the vast and complex history of Indian cuisine to flavor it? Umm no. I guess their message is that diversity and inclusion are just a skin color thing and it's now racist to prefer dark/milk/white chocolate.

I've never thought I had some kind of racial bias because I prefer dark chocolate with a little bitter bite. I will fully admit I find milk chocolate bland and white chocolate is inedible. That's just my palate. But if you know people prefer one or the other why put all 3 in one bar?

At some point we need a sober discussion. If you're the person who needs a candy bar to prove you're not a racist scumbag maybe you need to walk the desert and have a good think about yourself. And I wonder about the person who chooses multicolor chocolate rather than the one he prefers. What does it say about a person that his candy needs a political message?

Offline Greekman

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2019, 09:32:45 AM »
sorry but I feel Cadbury is right. there is something to be said as a racism determination device.
Which side are you biting (like) first? which side are you (o)ppressing with your filthy racists fingers?

Offline David in MN

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2019, 10:09:07 AM »
sorry but I feel Cadbury is right. there is something to be said as a racism determination device.
Which side are you biting (like) first? which side are you (o)ppressing with your filthy racists fingers?

Oh too funny. Am I a racist for biting the dark end while only holding the white end? Have we created the candy bar I'm too nervous to actually eat? Do I run the risk of being racist if I don't like the flavor?

I do not understand the mentality that needs to call out racial awareness in a kids candy bar. My 4 year old has the mental maturity to accept all races and creeds and be polite to them.

Offline Greekman

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2019, 12:30:25 AM »
me too..at times I think it is just marketing stints, coming from highly paid execs riding on the wave of political correctness and pseudo progressiveness.

at times I am toying with the idea of a plot to engineer a new style of society

Online iam4liberty

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2019, 08:57:52 PM »
This is totally crazy.  Seattle-based Wizards of the Coast, a Hasbro division, is in release season for its Magic the Gathering card  game.  They have a reputation for anti-American sentiment and have several staff members deeply involved in ANTIFA. 

But even the most numb to their antics were shocked today, 9/11, when staff started promoting this as card of the day:




Online iam4liberty

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2019, 09:54:43 PM »
One of the pros tries to save the day with humor and the other pros pile on to help the narrative along that "surely it was just a mistake". Their livlihoods depend on tapping this out and they are doing pretty good on damage control.  But insiders know thiat releases are coordinated to the nth degree so no way this slipped through.  WoTC has gone silent probably hoping not to flame it further.

https://twitter.com/efropoker/status/1171866956317609985
eric froehlich
@efropoker
Trying to figure out if I'm still living in reality after my wisdom teeth surgery, but there's just 0 chance that a card called Trapped in the Tower got scheduled to be previewed on 9/11, right?

Online iam4liberty

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Re: The Economic Fallout of Alienating Customers
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2019, 11:30:28 AM »
And on the good news side of the coin.  Purdue teaching the young ones what inclusion and marketplace economics means.

https://www.jconline.com/story/news/2019/09/13/purdue-stands-chick-fil-a-despite-protests-faculty-student-body-president/2310772001/
Purdue stands by Chick-fil-A, despite protests from faculty, student body president

“While we respect and protect the rights of all to express their opinions at Purdue, this clarification is intended to reassure our students and others that this long-requested dining option will not be taken from them and to dispel any impression that Purdue would ever seriously consider such an action,” the statement from Purdue read.

“We would not be promoting choice and freedom by depriving thousands of people in our community of a choice they have long sought and are already taking advantage of in large numbers,” Purdue’s statement read. “And, we would not be practicing inclusion by excluding a completely legitimate business and its staff from our campus.”