Author Topic: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR  (Read 26700 times)

d3nni5

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"Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« on: December 01, 2013, 09:21:42 AM »
All,

Anyone have any experience with this rifle?   It is my "childhood" 22, the one I learned to shoot with.  My brother gave it to me over Thanksgiving and it is need of some TLC

I have a couple of questions..

1.)   First it says "Springfield Model 187"  "Savage Arms" "Series A".   So I'm going with that it is a Savage, some quick Google searches also mention a Stevens model as well.   I'm assuming that this was made for a variety of retailers?

2.)   It is tube fed, similar to the Marlin 60's but I'm going to guess that the "guts" of it are totally different.

3.)   It did shoot!   I took it to the range two days ago, put 15 rounds through it just to make sure it functioned.   One thing I noticed is that the bolt holds open after you fire, so long as you keep the trigger back.  Let the trigger forward, the bolt returns and chambers the next round.   Not sure if this is by design?  It could that it is cruddy and not cleaned (just a guess) in 20 years.

If anyone has any pointers or manuals you can share that would be great.   I'm going to try to contact Savage this week and see if they have any manuals I can use.

As a side note, I couldn't bee happier.   This is not a treasure from a monetary point.   It was however my fathers ONLY gun.  My brother has trusted me with its care and I'm going to do my best to give it the attention it needs and return it to a safe and reliable operating condition.  It brings back memories man.   Since dad's passing this past April, I have thought about that old gun and mentioned it to my family.  It was a nice surprise.



Offline Cedar

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2013, 09:24:43 AM »
I have to go pull mine out and see what model it is.

Cedar

Offline flippydidit

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2013, 10:53:43 AM »
I would definitely start with getting a manual and cleaning it.  Pay special attention to how it was taken apart, and how you are putting it back together.  It likely won't need new parts (just a good cleaning), but parts can get broken easily if it isn't put back together correctly.  You can very quickly spend more in parts on an old .22 rifle than it is worth.  That probably wouldn't keep you from buying them; as it was your father's.  It's just nice to not need to buy parts if you don't have to.  Here are some tips to help you out:

1)  Use a digital camera to take pictures of each step during disassembly.  You can then go back and check "which way that flat spring was facing" or any number of things you may not have noticed in your rush to take the gun down for cleaning.

2)  Here's a parts diagram to help:  http://stevespages.com/ipb-springfield-187.html

3)  If you need parts that are very difficult to find (meaning you've checked everywhere else), there is a company that specializes in them.  It requires buying their catalog before you can order the parts.  Which is why I recommend trying to find your parts somewhere else before you try them.  Here is their link:  http://www.jackfirstgun.com/

Hope this helps!

d3nni5

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2013, 11:03:08 AM »
Thanks Flippy,

I also found that schematic here...

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/SavageStevensSpringfieldFox-33479/Rifles-40502/187Series-39701/187SeriesA-33833.htm?results=30&page=3

It looks like they have several parts for purchase too if needed.

The digital camera photo of every part as I break it down is a good idea, I definitely will do that for sure.  Aren't you a gunsmith?   Any idea about the bolt staying open when the trigger is held back?   Is this a "feature" or a "problem"   :).

Thanks a million man!

Offline flippydidit

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2013, 11:48:38 AM »
Thanks Flippy,

I also found that schematic here...

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/SavageStevensSpringfieldFox-33479/Rifles-40502/187Series-39701/187SeriesA-33833.htm?results=30&page=3

It looks like they have several parts for purchase too if needed.

The digital camera photo of every part as I break it down is a good idea, I definitely will do that for sure.  Aren't you a gunsmith?   Any idea about the bolt staying open when the trigger is held back?   Is this a "feature" or a "problem"   :).

Thanks a million man!

I am a gunsmith, though I don't like to give advice on open forums (it's a liability thing).  Some things about your rifle.  It does have the locking bolt, which is a hold-open.  Pull the bolt ALL the way back, and push the knob in until it locks.  That should hold the bolt open.  You may have to play with it a little if it is rusty/dirty.  If you want it to function in semi-automatic mode, the bolt needs to be out (away from the receiver).  If the bolt just flops in and out, you may need to clean it better or replace some parts.

Definitely do a complete cleaning job on it before you decide that you need to buy parts for it.  Use a ridiculous amount of solvent and a wire brush (except on wood, plastic/nylon or rubber).  Once it's good and cleaned, take a look at how it operates.  Pay special attention to parts that have been worn (shiny).  Look at the tip of the firing pin and the face of the chamber (where the firing pin matches up).  If the firing pin is chipped, or the chamber is chewed up, that can indicate whether the rifle was dry fired.

On this specific rifle, I'd take a look at the spring and detent that is used to retain the locking bolt (bolt handle).  Those two may need replaced.  Also look at the lifter assembly (part numbers 43-46).  The spring is notorious for needing replacement.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

d3nni5

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2013, 02:18:22 PM »
I am a gunsmith, though I don't like to give advice on open forums (it's a liability thing). 


Understood, and appreciated.   Thanks for all the pointers.   I am out in the field hunting the next two days on a buddy's farm, so I doubt I have any chance to get to it this week.

I need to finish my workbench in the garage (another project half done).   Once I got it where I want it, this is exactly the kind of project I am looking to do.

I'll keep you posted, but doubt I tear down for awhile.

Offline flippydidit

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2013, 03:28:41 PM »
I'm not sure if you've heard the term "air soluble parts" before, but I use it mostly to describe the parts in old .22 rifles.  They're the parts that "dissolve when they contact air" (typically little springs and pins).  Just be careful, because those little pieces have a proclivity for "disappearing acts".  Good luck, and I hope you get it shooting again!

nelson96

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2013, 03:36:31 PM »
Good luck, and I hope you get it shooting again!

Good confidence builder there  ;)

Offline soupbone

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2013, 07:28:03 PM »
"air soluble parts" - I like that. It also applies to cameras, watches, HO gauge model railroad engines, and the like, right?

soup

Offline bgeno

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 10:34:58 AM »
This is a question for flippydidit. I have a stevens model 887 which is the almost identical gun to the 187. how is the ejector spring installed? should it slide right in. I think I got sent the wrong spring is the reason I am asking. also the bumper spring requires the barrel removal. It has two pins holding it in. Can I remove the barrel or should I take it to a gun smith. Is it a press fit? I am trying to get the old girl going again picked it up cheap and now I know why. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Offline Angus

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 09:09:14 AM »
The 187 floating around when I was young just had the broken remnant of the bumper spring.  Never knew why the bolt had a slot cut in the top until we got a 587 with the spring intact. Once the feed lips were tweaked just right, it fed perfectly without it.   Also to use the bolt handle to lock it open, the threaded end cap had to be backed out a turn.  Otherwise it wouldn't let the bolt back far enough to catch.


d3nni5

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 09:32:30 AM »
This is going to be a winter project for me.   I'm going to break this guy down all the way, clean, repair, reblue (maybe), refinish.




Offline Angus

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2014, 06:45:13 PM »

This one is marked "SAVAGE ARMS - WESTFIELD, MASS U.S.A. - HIAWATHA MODEL 587"

d3nni5

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 06:48:27 PM »


I love the checkering, something mine lacks.

d3nni5

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 02:43:50 PM »
So after well over a year of not touching this little rimfire, I started tearing it down today and getting it cleaned up.    I spent the day studying each and every part I removed, and cleaning the breech and barrel.   It still needs more attention but I got 85% of the 40 years of crud scrubbed away.

I also stripped the stock and started sanding it down to take a finish.

Pics to follow.

d3nni5

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2015, 02:53:34 PM »
Let's start with what I did to the stock.

Above are a couple of "before" images, but I think this pic best illustrates what I'm working with.




It appears to be a lacquered finish or painted or something.   You could see the wood grain through it, but it is obviously not stained....evidenced by the scratches and chips that have been taken out.

My buddy and I were talking about what type of wood it may be, and why it was finished this way as apposed to a good staining.  We are pretty sure it is not walnut.  But I honestly don't know how to tell.  It is still up in the air whether I will stain, dye, paint this stock.   I don't want to stain it if it ends up blotchy and looking half assed.   Dying it may penetrate better and give it a deeper color.   I can always paint over it if I screw up :).

But first thing is first....I stripped it down and sanded it with 100 grit for about 1.5 hours today.   I'm not finished working with it,  but I felt like I got to a good place to stop today.






d3nni5

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2015, 03:01:16 PM »
I tore down as much of it as I could easily.   Look at how cruddy it is....












I got it soaking in Ballistol right now.   This, only after I scrubbed on it and got as much of it off as I could.







I do have a blemish to deal with.   I had this thing coated in solvent and it slipped right out of my hands onto the garage floor!!!    I cussed a few minutes, picked it up and worked it over a little to smooth out the ding.   I got to give it some more love.   Then I will blue it.   Should not be "too" noticeable if I do it right.





Offline ArmedRealtor

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2019, 10:27:36 AM »
 Greetings and salutations friends, this is my first post on the forum.

I received a Savage 187 from my grandmothers estate 20+ years ago. I took it to the range about 6 years ago and when I pulled the trigger I got a surprise... pop, pop, pop, pop, then I let go of the trigger. My club has a strict rule that if your gun shoots more than one bullet per pull of the trigger, you must put it away immediately and take it for repair. Several guys around me immediately recognized the sound and quickly converged on me. I said “I’m putting it away right now” to which they replied “Try that and see if it does it again”. They prodded me on and we shot a couple pulls of the trigger. Then the gun would jam every third or fourth round and it just became a pain the ass.

 Brought it home and disassembled it, cleaning the gun like it had not been cleaned in 50 years. I opened up YouTube to get video on how to reassemble. The only video I could find the guy halfway disassembled it and said do not take this gun apart any further than this.... oops, now he tells me.

 After all the parts being in a bag for several years I’m ready to give it a shot. In the meantime I have re-blued the barrel and have started refinishing the stock. I can’t figure out how to post pictures of the stock, this is my very first post on the forum. Help me Rhonda, help, help me Rhonda!

Jim

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2019, 02:17:04 PM »
Greetings and welcome, ArmedRealtor!

I can’t figure out how to post pictures of the stock

We do it the old-fashioned way.  You find someplace to host your image online, and then you post its URL here.

Code: [Select]
[img]http://example.com/myimage.jpg[/img]

Offline ArmedRealtor

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2019, 02:28:48 PM »
Thanks for the welcome..

Please understand I have this marvelous talent of overlooking the obvious. One of my ex girlfriends called me “Captain Obvious”...lol

I am getting an irregular pattern in the wood when staining. I am pretty sure the stock was either Red Oak or Cherry because when stripped had a red huge to it. Not sure how well the patterns will show up in photos but here they are. The main stock is stained in MinWax Golden Oak and the checkering is in Espresso. I thought the Birchwood & Casey Walnut Stain was too dark but planning on a couple of coats of Tru-Oil Gun Stock Finish... unless someone can point me in a better direction. This is my first stock refinish so open to any/all suggestions (as well as how to put this damned thing back together :-)



https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1G_tnC5tH2pPr9VI-gY298RNeKm5hrTY5

Offline ArmedRealtor

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2019, 06:03:32 AM »
187 Mechanical Update... I searched TubeYou and found a video that explains the basic workings of the 187.it was not there several years ago when I attempted to put the gun back together the first time. After watching the short video and seeing how it looked assembled it only took 15 minutes to put it back together. The real surprise came shortly there after. I was looking at the action of the gun and it reminded me of a 22 that I purchased a couple years ago in a package deal with a muzzleloader.  I went and pulled it out of the gun safe and put the two side-by-side, they were almost identical except the 86 has a much longer barrel.

The older one is a pre WWII Savage Model 86 which has the exact same action (but smoother) as the newer 187. The Model 86 has a metal trigger guard and charging handle while the 187 (which I thought was older than dirt) has a plastic trigger guard and charging handle.

Mechanically the gun is reassembled, now I need suggestions on finishing the stock.

Offline David in MN

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Re: "Savage Model 187 Series A" .22LR
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2019, 08:32:07 AM »
I'm not saying it's best because there are a million ways to refinish a stock but I always strip as gently as possible, rub with #0000 steel wool, and refinish with boiled linseed oil. Tung oil would work as well if you don't like the yellow of BLO but it's spendy.

I did this to my Mosin Nagant and while I irritate the collectors and "historically accurate" types because my rifle is blonde-ish and not caked in the 1940s Soviet red shellac that is total garbage for use my gun actually operates very well.

My bias is for finishes that are oil based and permeate the wood. If not linseed, I'd be happy with a shop made varnish or something like a Danish oil. I like a neutral-ish color to let the grain show but again, that's just my bias. If I really wanted the grain to pop I'd use the Zinsser sanding sealer shellac before an oil coat. When I do wood turning I do rub of sanding sealer, then a coat of varnish, and a final coat of rubbed on polyurethane. I don't like poly on gun stocks because it will flake off under heavy use (like recoil).

That's my opinion and it's worth exactly what you paid for it. If you got 100 woodworkers together I'm confident all would agree that it works but every one of them would have a slightly different "preferred method". Also worth noting that refinish work has a little problem that I run into when I do client work. Are we restoring the piece to the way it looked when it was new, merely cleaning it up because the dents and dings have meaning, or completely redoing everything so it's the most usable piece possible moving forward? There is no wrong answer.