Author Topic: Measles hysteria NY  (Read 4759 times)

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 7087
  • Karma: 104
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2019, 01:08:40 PM »
 I don't trust these people and they seem crazy. I worry that they want so badly to push vaccines that they could try to create fake pandemics. I am not even sure I believe it when they say X number of measles cases where reported, maybe they exaggerated or made it up

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2019, 06:28:23 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/nyregion/measles-outbreak-ny.html
Measles Outbreak: Tensions Rise as New York City Steps Up Response
A Hasidic woman was heckled when she boarded a public bus.


But as health officials plunged into Brooklyn’s Williamsburg neighborhood to enforce the mandate, tensions only escalated.
...
“I am a religious Jew, whose religious convictions are being blatantly violated by the vaccine Diktats, which are a clear violation of the Nuremberg Code, which forbids forcing medical procedures on anyone without their fully-informed consent"
...
“Childhood diseases, like measles and chickenpox, unlike smallpox and ebola, are not a legitimate public health menace, and do not justify an emergency declaration.”
...
In the wake of the emergency order, Jewish leaders say they fear a continued rise in anti-Semitism. In recent months, Hasidic neighborhoods have been the targets of a slew of anti-Semitic hate crimes, and Jewish leaders reported another one on Thursday.

Rabbi David Niederman, the president of the United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg, said a city bus driver tried to refuse service to a Hasidic woman in Brooklyn. The driver eventually let the woman board, Mr. Niederman said, but then shouted “measles” at her and directed her to move to the back of the bus.

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2019, 08:13:06 PM »
https://hamodia.com/2019/04/02/rockland-county-executive-accused-stoking-anti-semitism-measles-declaration/
Rockland County Executive Accused of Stoking Anti-Semitism With Measles Declaration

A week after Rockland County’s executive announced a ban on unvaccinated minors in public places, reports claim that while the proclamation comes with no means of enforcement, its most tangible result has been a spike in anti-Semitism.
...
a New York Times article entitled, “An Outbreak Spreads Fear: Of Measles, of Ultra-Orthodox Jews, of Anti-Semitism,” referenced several incidents of non-Jewish Rockland residents fleeing stores after spotting Orthodox Jews shopping there.

The Times quoted a store clerk who recalled the story, saying that one customer had grabbed her child and said, “Let’s go, let’s go! Jews don’t have shots!’”

County Legislator and askan Aron Weider told Hamodia that the emergency declaration had “absolutely” led to an increase in anti-Semitic rhetoric and feelings in the county, well beyond the handful of incidents mentioned in the article, and that a significant amount of the blame lay with Mr. Day’s approach in making the declaration.

“He [Day] knows what would have been the responsible way to go about this, and in my opinion he deliberately did it this way to further exploit the tensions that he knows exist,” he said.
...
Steven Gold, the chairman of the Jewish Community Relations Council for the Jewish Federation of Rockland, said that since last Tuesday, his agency had heard of an increase in bias comments against Orthodox Jews.

“The declaration made people feel freer to make anti-Semitic comments,” he said. “Just because there’s an outbreak in these communities, that shouldn’t give anybody a right to be openly anti-Semitic."
...
This is hardly the first time Mr. Day has been accused of exploiting tensions surrounding the quickly expanding Orthodox community in Rockland. He has supported a long list of measures widely seen as aimed to discourage further growth and was elected in 2013 with enthusiastic backing from the Preserve Rockland group — an organization that is likewise seen by many as dedicated to agitating against the area’s Orthodox community and in some instances against Judaism itself.

In 2016, Sreeramulu Nagubandi, the county’s long-serving Commissioner for Human Rights, filed a lawsuit that alleged that the county executive had openly expressed a desire to limit the Orthodox community’s growth and to make daily life difficult for them.

Mr. Weider said there was little in Mr. Day’s record to dissuade him from thinking that his actions regarding the ban were not motivated by animus.

“Ed Day has a long history of being antagonistic towards the Orthodox community. His own human rights commissioner accused him of being overtly anti-Semitic.”

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2019, 08:56:02 AM »
So sad that they have to do this just to retain basic rights.


Kevin Connery from Brooklyn holds a protest sign outside the Rockland County Office Building in New City in protest of the State of Emergency

Offline Prepper456

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: 0
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2019, 03:32:38 PM »
I think I read measle cases in New York have gone 300 or 300% above normal due to not vaccinating.

Offline Mr. Bill

  • Like a hot cocoa mojito
  • Administrator
  • Forum Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 14687
  • Karma: 1862
  • Trained Attack Sheepdog/Troll hunter
    • Website Maintenance and Online Presence Management by Mr. Bill
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2019, 05:50:09 PM »
Courthouse News, 4/17/19: Measles-Vaccination Order Extended Across New York City

Quote
The New York City Board of Health voted unanimously Wednesday to continue an emergency measles vaccination order...

The order, first declared alongside a public health emergency April 9, requires people who live or work in four Brooklyn ZIP codes to receive the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine if they cannot show proof of immunity or provide medical exemptions. ...

...Williamsburg has seen a “surge” of vaccinations: around 400-500 people, many of them young children, have gotten vaccines in the last week or so.  ...but about 14% of Williamsburg children between the ages of 1 and 5 still have not received any doses of the MMR vaccine. ...

The long incubation period, and the number of children who remain unvaccinated, mean the outbreak is likely to get worse before it gets better. City health officials have counted 329 cases since Sept. 30, 2018. That number was at 285 a week ago.

Williamsburg is home to 81% of the measles cases, with Borough Park, another Brooklyn neighborhood, trailing behind at 16 percent. Children ages 1 to 4 represent 49% of cases.

Almost all New York City cases have been concentrated within the Orthodox Jewish community, and the city has focused recent efforts on encouraging vaccination before families see relatives for Passover. ...

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2019, 09:27:45 PM »
Courthouse News, 4/17/19: Measles-Vaccination Order Extended Across New York City

That's one way to put it.  Like I posted last week, they yanked the origional one which was clearly illegal ahead of tommorrow's court hearing.

Such a waste of taxpayers' money given city will pull order the day hefore case is reviewed.  It is all theater meant to flame hate and divide people.

It was replaced with a non-zipcode based order with different terms.  People are now ignoring it and refusing to talk with health department.  Not a single church is going to close their doors for Easter like they are ordering.  This order will be yanked too as soon as it comes to court.  No-one will ever be charged.  This is a total failure and is just political theater.

I don't trust these people and they seem crazy. I worry that they want so badly to push vaccines that they could try to create fake pandemics. I am not even sure I believe it when they say X number of measles cases where reported, maybe they exaggerated or made it up

No need.  They have been changing reporting so they can pump up reported numbers to scare people. 


I think I read measle cases in New York have gone 300 or 300% above normal due to not vaccinating.

The media throws around all kinds of "percents" to scare people.  It is all based on chosen base periods.  Truth is these numbers are well within expectations.  There will always be flaps caused by international travel like this one.  Until we get to multiple thousands it is not out of norm.  Here are CDC charts based on reported cases.  This includes an upward bias as there are now activists trying to skew numbers going into reporting.  The corresponding number for late 1990s was just about 1000.  With small numbers like these you can always generate large percent rises or falls simply by choosing comparison year.  This is especially the case by looking at specific geos where you might have only a couple in a given year.



This whole media narrative that gains from vaccinations have been lost due to "antivaxers" is laughable.  First measle vaccination rates are up (about 92% vs. 90% a decade ago).  Second, we used to have 450,000 reported cases a year. A few hundred is miniscule by comparison.  It wont even visually show up when graphed.  Said another way, measles is down by 99.9% and nothing is going to change that.



Online FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6109
  • Karma: 772
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2019, 09:39:59 PM »
WSJ:  Measles Outbreak Upends Passover Traditions

Quote
The growing measles outbreak is colliding with Passover, one of the holiest Jewish celebrations and a time when families travel to be together.

New York City health officials have warned that the holiday, with its large get-togethers and long, ritual meals, risks spreading measles, which is highly contagious and easily transmitted.

Quote
Medical professionals who serve the Orthodox community and rabbinical authorities have called on parents to vaccinate their children, said Rabbi David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America. “The large majority of Jewish schoolchildren are indeed vaccinated.”


WaPo:  An Israeli flight attendant contracted measles. Officials are now urging crews to get vaccinated.

Quote
Officials with Israel’s Ministry of Health said a 43-year-old flight attendant for the national airline El Al had flown back to Israel late last month from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York. New York state has been a battleground for concurrent measles outbreaks in Brooklyn and Queens, as well as in Rockland County. However, because of the woman’s “impaired mental status,” officials said it could not be confirmed where or when she contracted the virus.

Eyal Basson, a spokesman for Israel’s Health Ministry, told The Washington Post that the woman, who is believed to have been vaccinated as a child, was admitted to a hospital March 31 and has developed encephalitis, a severe complication from measles that causes the brain to swell. As of Wednesday, Basson said in a statement, the woman was unconscious and in serious condition.

Quote
Basson said public health experts have not been able to speak with the woman because she is unconscious, but her mother told them that she had received all required childhood vaccinations, which, in the 1970s, would have included one dose of a vaccine intended to protect against measles and other childhood diseases. Israel now recommends two doses of the MMR/MMRV (measles, mumps, rubella and varicella) vaccine, but it’s not known whether the woman received the second dose.

Quote
People born between 1957 and 1989 generally only had one MMR dose. One dose is about 93 percent effective at preventing measles, but anyone in that age group can still get a second dose, says Russell Faust, medical director for Michigan’s Oakland County health department. The county, part of metropolitan Detroit, has an ongoing measles outbreak with 39 cases reported. Two doses are about 97 percent effective. Even if you had two doses (or can’t remember), it’s okay to get a third dose, he says.


CNN:  Israeli flight attendant in coma after getting measles

Per Dr. Itamar Grotto, associate director general of Israel's Ministry of Health, it's not an issue of religious belief with the ultra-orthodox, but having more kids than they have time to get vaccinated.

Quote
There have been 3,920 cases of measles in Israel from March 2018 through April 11, said Grotto, who is also a professor of epidemiology and public health at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev.

Quote
Grotto said there was a surge of cases in Israel last fall when large numbers of ultra-Orthodox Israelis traveled to Ukraine on a religious pilgrimage during the Jewish New Year. Ukraine has had more than 72,000 measles cases this year, more than any other country, according to the World Health Organization.

About 85% to 90% of Israeli measles cases have been among ultra-Orthodox Jews, Grotto said.

There's nothing in Judaism that teaches against vaccination; on the contrary, rabbis encourage vaccination in keeping with Jewish teachings on protecting your health and the health of others.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews tend to have large families, and Grotto said those who don't vaccinate tend to have practical, not ideological, reasons.

"Sometimes, they vaccinate their first or second child, but with so many children, they don't always have time to vaccinate them all," he said. "They're not against vaccines. They have nothing against them ideologically."


The Times of Israel:  El Al flight attendant hospitalized in serious condition with measles

Quote
Israel has seen an outbreak of measles in the past year, recording 3,600 cases since March 2018, according to the ministry.

Infections have mostly centered on the country’s ultra-Orthodox community, where inoculation rates have generally been low.

In November, an 18-month-old toddler in Jerusalem died of the disease, the first recorded death from measles in Israel in the past 15 years. A month later, an 82-year-old woman became the second fatality.


Encephalopathic for ten days and on a vent.....sounds like Israel's third measles death is imminent. 

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2019, 09:59:28 PM »
So, given the CDC estimate of 40,000 to 80,000 deaths from flu per year vs. zero from measles, shouldnt we quarantine the entire country?  Where are all the politicians? 

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-09-27/cdc-80-000-people-died-of-flu-complications-last-season-in-us
CDC: 80,000 People Died From Flu Last Season
The 2017-2018 flu season was the deadliest in at least 40 years.


Pure political theater.

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2019, 10:45:11 PM »
Where is the outrage against the flu "antivaxers"?    I wonder how many militant vaxers are up-to-date on their flu shots?  Shouldnt anyone without flu shots be banned from all public spaces?

Simple answer is Flu cant be used to target specific religious  communities so isnt a prime candidate for political gain via the hype wagon.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-02-01/cdc-2-more-child-deaths-linked-to-flu?context=amp
CDC: 2 More Child Deaths Linked to Flu

Two more children were reported to have died in connection with the flu as activity picked up in the U.S. last week, according to an update from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

As of Jan. 26, health officials reported a total of 24 children whose deaths were associated with the flu this season, compared with more than 80 pediatric deaths as of the same time period last season. A total of 185 flu-linked child deaths were reported last season, up from 110 the season before.
...
The agency estimates that up to 11.7 million people had gotten sick with the flu from October through Jan. 26, with roughly half that total visiting a doctor. New York City and 23 states experienced high levels of flu-like activity last week, and the virus was widespread in 45 states.
...
"Each year flu places a large burden on the health and well-being of children and their families," the CDC says. "Annual influenza vaccination is the best method for preventing flu and its potentially severe complications in children."


Offline mountainmoma

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 4426
  • Karma: 200
  • suburban homesteader
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2019, 11:11:08 PM »
So, given the CDC estimate of 40,000 to 80,000 deaths from flu per year vs. zero from measles, shouldnt we quarantine the entire country?  Where are all the politicians? 

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-09-27/cdc-80-000-people-died-of-flu-complications-last-season-in-us
CDC: 80,000 People Died From Flu Last Season
The 2017-2018 flu season was the deadliest in at least 40 years.


Pure political theater.


That is a very good point.

ANd, while I do agree it is political theatre, and that hte flu has always been MUCH deadlier that the measles,  you cant compare the effectiveness of the two vaccines.  The flu changes constantly, and they never have a fully "good" targeted vaccine, so the flu vaccine is often not very effective, and it would have to be done every single year, and often still not be affective, so it is not as hypocritical as it first appears  There is still a logical consistency to getting regular vaccines and not the flu vaccine.

That said, the real point is that the flu is very deadly, and measles is not.  And, people have hysteria over the measles, and do not take the flu seriously enough, kids are often not kept home enough and nursed enough these days.  I had the second flu this season, which was the more serious one, the strain that had the 2 in it, most likely.  I stayed home for 2 weeks.  I guess I could have "powered" thu it, as people do, but it is better to recuperate properly, to rest up properly and to not infect the rest of the world.  Like I said on another thread,  vaccine-choicers often have a whole different view of disease, so we often treat our illnesses appropriately which also means we do not get them as serious.  I was not seriously ill for these 2 weeks, I was just sick, but I could tell its potential.  I chose to prioritize giving myself the best care so as to avoid getting seriously ill. 

Online FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6109
  • Karma: 772
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2019, 01:41:38 AM »
Where is the outrage against the flu "antivaxers"?

Shouldn't be too hard to find some long-ass posts from me, right here on this forum, from way back in the day.   :banghead:


I wonder how many militant vaxers are up-to-date on their flu shots? 

I don't know who the hell the militant are.......

But with physicians it's very high, around 96%, higher than any other class of healthcare worker.  I haven't missed one in 25 years, neither has my wife.


Shouldnt anyone without flu shots be banned from all public spaces?

Banning them from hospitals would be fine with me.  Nosocomial flu has bad morbidity and mortality compared to community acquired.


Simple answer is Flu cant be used to target specific religious  communities so isnt a prime candidate for political gain via the hype wagon.

It's apples and oranges, because the flu vaccine provides no lasting protection, has to be reformulated every year, and is frequently less than half as effective as measles.  The R0 for measles is an order of magnitude greater than flu, too.  Measles takes the cake in terms of potential airborne spread, worse than smallpox, flu is at the bottom of the list. 

I fail to see the religious persecution being unique to measles.  Especially since the religious/philosophical belief flag is always been hoisted high when arguing about mandatory flu vaccination for healthcare workers.


But, hey, I'm just glad to see flu being taken seriously.

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 7087
  • Karma: 104
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2019, 03:33:33 AM »
Quote
There's nothing in Judaism that teaches against vaccination; on the contrary, rabbis encourage vaccination in keeping with Jewish teachings on protecting your health and the health of others.

Vaccines can have fetus cells, injecting human cells into your body that came from a different person than yourself could be seen as highly questionable and not in line with similar religious principles. Forced medication were it seems questionable need not be spelled out in religious rules because it should be obvious where the problems can arise and history has shown this

The claim of 80,000 people died from the flu last year sounds questionable to me. You can never trust some of the stats they put out. It seems known for instance that aids stats for Africa are not reliable

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2019, 07:29:27 AM »
I don't know who the hell the militant are.......

Than you haven't seen news or been on social media.  Per webster:

militant
aggressively active (as in a cause) : COMBATIVE
Example: militant conservationists

It's apples and oranges, because the flu vaccine provides no lasting protection, has to be reformulated every year, and is frequently less than half as effective as measles.

You just made case to be even more militant towards flu vaccinations than measles.  If there is no lasting protection than there can be no herd immunity without constant shots.  Flu has not been eliminated in the US, measles has.  Plus, there is natural immunity to measles as well.  As CDC says, there is no chance for measles to be endemic while flu is massively so.

Where is the constant media drum beating?  Where are the aggressive, illegal orders?  Strange we dont see them for flu. Why? Because they havent found a way to leverage it for political gain.  If they called for $2,000 fines for anyone without a flu shot they would be out of office in a heartbeat.  But if it is just some Amish, Jews, Catholics, Native Americans, etc under assault for having religious and scientific convictions, they are less concerned as it doesnt affect them.  Political theater.

The claim of 80,000 people died from the flu last year sounds questionable to me. You can never trust some of the stats they put out.

It is true those are all guestimates. In any specific case they are likely wrong by 20% or so.  But on average over long periods of time they are pretty close.  But they must be interpreted correctly.  When it comes to diseases, rarely is it interpretted correctly in the media.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 07:38:09 AM by iam4liberty »

Offline David in MN

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 2165
  • Karma: 168
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2019, 11:39:52 AM »
I'm the guy around here who opposes the flu shot. But that's just based on the statistics that show it's not really effective. But the iatrogenics of the flu shot are a far cry from an MMR. I don't think anyone believes the measles vaccine isn't effective. I can accept (though it's a poor decision) rejecting it on religious grounds but I can't accept a comparison.

What skeeves me out is the logical conclusion. I have a headcold right now. Should I be allowed in public? Should I be allowed outside? Should I be chained up in my basement for public safety until my entire house can be fumigated? Can you do that with a hot Russian girl in a latex police uniform?

Hey, I'll ask it another way... Are we making sure immigrants are vaccinated? Are our sanctuary cities responsible?

When you turn to the legal system to fix long human issues like public health it can't help but end in a dark place. I don't know what the right answer is but I'm very scared a government that mandates preventative medicine. With modern DNA testing you're getting real close the early 1900s dream of eliminating "undesirables".

Online FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6109
  • Karma: 772
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2019, 05:34:31 PM »
You just made case to be even more militant towards flu vaccinations than measles. 

Ok, fine, I'm a militant vaxxer, then. 

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2019, 07:44:14 AM »
Update. On radio they are reporting dismissal of case by Orthodox Jews. As expected, with change in order Judge ruled that they cant prove they are being forced to vaccinate and therefore cant get an injunction. So the political theater continues.  So glad I dont live in area where government is allowed to terrorize minorities. The whole "you dont have a legal claim until after you've been put in the gas chamber and knobbed turned" is such a bizarre concept.  Threats by government are actions and should be treated as such.  From the clips the judge came off as an anti-semitic jerk.  The judge even dismissed their rabbis as being religious authorities.  Apparently Jesus wouldnt qualify as a religious leader in New York.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 08:06:26 AM by iam4liberty »

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2019, 07:29:26 AM »
As expected, data shows these attacks were just more fake news to push their agendas.  Dont worry, I am sure they will find another reason to attack thsee religious communities until they start voting the way they should.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/little-evidence-to-suggest-orthodox-jews-affected-by-measles-are-undervaccinated_2895265.html/amp
Little Evidence to Suggest Orthodox Jewish Community Affected by Measles Is Undervaccinated

Orthodox Jews have customs and beliefs very different from those of the mainstream, so when measles started to spread among them, the rest of the world jumped to the conclusion that this was because many of them eschew vaccination.

Stoked by fear of a disease that health officials could not stop, many media reports and even the New York mayor’s office have reinforced this narrative.
...
However, a careful look at the data available on vaccination rates in Orthodox Jewish communities, and reports by members of the community and their doctors, indicate that the Hasidic community is vaccinated on par with the rest of the city.
...
The Orthodox Jewish Public Affairs Council (OJPAC) estimates that there are more than 50,000 K-12 school children in these two communities. This number puts the vaccination rate at around 96 percent. The threshold for herd immunity for measles is presumed to be 93 to 95 percent.

That information also is supported by Jane Zucker, New York City’s assistant commissioner of the Bureau of Immunization. Zucker told Vox that most school-age children in the community are vaccinated at levels on par with other schools.
...
So What Is Causing the Outbreak?
If it’s not a ubiquitous lack of vaccination, then why are we seeing so many cases of measles?
...
It’s worth noting here that the CDC has reported more than 400 cases of mumps in 34 states this year and that these outbreaks can occur in highly vaccinated populations, especially where people are in close contact with one another.

“Mumps outbreaks can still occur in U.S. communities of people who previously had one or two doses of MMR vaccine. This is particularly common in close-contact settings.
...
Another piece of the puzzle is vaccine failure. Recent data from the health department confirms that a known minority of cases are found in vaccinated people.

Failure of the MMR vaccine to prevent measles outbreaks is not a topic media report on, but it is well documented in scientific literature that outbreaks happen in highly vaccinated populations around the world.

In 2017, measles was reported in nine vaccinated Israeli soldiers.

In 2003, an outbreak in a boarding school in Pennsylvania also caused nine cases, with six of the people affected having received two doses of the measles vaccine.

In 2012, an editorial by the editor-in-chief of the journal Vaccine noted some rather spectacular failures: an outbreak in Canada, where over 50 percent of the 98 people infected had received two doses of measles vaccine, and a U.S. outbreak spanning from 1989 to 1991 in which 20 to 40 percent of infections were in people who had received one or two doses.

Offline surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 7087
  • Karma: 104
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2019, 11:47:58 AM »

 How do we know if immigrants aren't bringing in more diseases ? I doubt they would ever admit that one as it's politically incorrect. There are claims that that is where the source in many cases is coming from but I am sure all sorts of news agencies and experts will deny it

 Why did they used to have Ellis Island in the old days, was that all just a waste of time ? No more checking for diseases apparently of immigrants, not necessary ?

Offline Mr. Bill

  • Like a hot cocoa mojito
  • Administrator
  • Forum Veteran
  • *******
  • Posts: 14687
  • Karma: 1862
  • Trained Attack Sheepdog/Troll hunter
    • Website Maintenance and Online Presence Management by Mr. Bill
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2019, 11:55:06 AM »
The Epoch Times article is doing a great job of selective quotation.


Epoch Times:
Quote
...Jane Zucker, New York City’s assistant commissioner of the Bureau of Immunization ... told Vox that most school-age children in the community are vaccinated at levels on par with other schools.

Vox reporter Julia Belluz wrote, “Vaccine levels in Jewish schools in New York City look average, although religious schools have more religious exemptions than non-religious schools.”...

Source:
Vox, 4/10/19: New York’s Orthodox Jewish community is battling measles outbreaks. Vaccine deniers are to blame.
Quote
...“Unfortunately the concern about whether there’s any linkage has really lingered and [because of] misinformation, and it has been very difficult to dissuade parents,” Jane Zucker, New York City’s assistant commissioner of the bureau of immunization, told Vox. “We hear they want to wait until the child is older so they know the child doesn’t have autism, then get the child vaccinated.”

New York State does not allow parents to refuse vaccines for philosophical reasons, though parents can get exemptions for health and religious reasons. Once children reach school, they have to present evidence that their kids have been vaccinated, unless they have been granted an exemption.

Zucker says vaccine levels in Jewish schools in New York City look average, although religious schools have more religious exemptions than non-religious schools. And before kids get to school, there’s a problem in Williamsburg: It has one of the lowest rates of vaccine coverage among young children, ages 19 to 35 months, in the city.

So it was no surprise to Zucker that the children currently affected by measles in this outbreak were all too young to be in school. According to the city health department, the Williamsburg and Borough Park measles cases involved only small children, ages ranging from seven months to 4 years old. ...

That means there’s a cohort of kids for which state vaccine laws aren’t applicable, and who are vulnerable to vaccine-preventable diseases.

“Once the kids get into school we know we have good vaccine uptake,” said Zucker. “It’s the delay, though, and that’s what’s linked to this outbreak.”...


Epoch Times:
Quote
...“I don’t really at NYU see a lot of [Hasidic] patients that are adamant about not getting vaccines, I mostly see the ones that are delayed,” Dr. Jennifer Lighter, a pediatric epidemiologist with the New York University Langone hospital system, told the Jewish publication Forward. ...

Source:
Forward, 1/11/19, updated 1/16/19: Measles Is Hitting Ultra-Orthodox Communities. Why Aren’t They Vaccinating?
Quote
...“If you have a room full of people, and someone has measles, 90% of people will get measles if they are not vaccinated,” said Dr. Jennifer Lighter, a pediatric epidemiologist with the New York University Langone hospital system. ...

Lighter ... said that most of her patients are under-vaccinated, meaning they are behind the recommended schedule for receiving vaccinations. Many have foregone vaccination at different times because they erroneously thought it was unhealthy to receive multiple vaccinations at once, or be immunized while they had a cold.

“I don’t really at NYU see a lot of [Hasidic] patients that are adamant about not getting vaccines, I mostly see the ones that are delayed,” she said. ...


Epoch Times:
Quote
Dr. Jay Begun, a pediatrician in Williamsburg, told The Associated Press that only “a very small minority,” of his patients don’t vaccinate at all.

Source:
AP (via Salt Lake Tribune), 4/10/19: Lawyer: Challenge to NYC’s vaccination order in the works
Quote
..."There is an element of anti-vaccine supporters and sympathizers who do not want to get shots. It's a very small minority," said Dr. Jay Begun, a pediatrician in Williamsburg.

But Begun said a larger number may delay the first measles-mumps-rubella vaccine until 2 years of age instead of the recommended 1 year, vastly increasing the number of unvaccinated children who can be infected.

"Once you delay it a few months, you exponentially increase the vector for infection," said Begun, who said families of eight to 10 children are typical in his practice. "You have a larger pool of babies. The delay it is what's fueling this outbreak."...

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2019, 12:22:39 PM »
How do we know if immigrants aren't bringing in more diseases ? I doubt they would ever admit that one as it's politically incorrect. There are claims that that is where the source in many cases is coming from but I am sure all sorts of news agencies and experts will deny it

Why did they used to have Ellis Island in the old days, was that all just a waste of time ? No more checking for diseases apparently of immigrants, not necessary?

The CDC has been pretty good about disclosing sources of outbreaks.  They use the term "travellers" which depoliticizes it. This includes all people recently coming from abroad; immigrants, visitors, and US residents returning. For measles the majority have been US residents returning from abroad.  The reason is that trip times tend to match incubation period for measles and once here US residents move around more freely/interact with more people more closely so can spread it faster.  This is the most scientifically correct way to put it.  It doesnt matter why the person moved from one population to another, just that they did and were infected at that point.

That the CDC is openly promoting that approximately a third of recent measles cases are of people who have been vaccinatioed, including kids, is something new.  It suggests that the vaccine is much less effective than has been promoted.  They just launched a huge campaign in stages; born before 1968, born before 1989, etc. 

They have switched the lingo in all the news reports too.  Gone is 'almost exclusively in those not vaccinated'.  It is now the softer 'majority were never vaccinated'.  And it is no longer caused by those with exemptions but is rather a global rise. And there is no need to panic as " the number of people affected in the U.S. is still relatively low" and "So far, even the hundreds of measles cases reported in the U.S. this year pale in comparison with the 1950s, when millions of people each year got measles."

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/04/29/716894110/measles-shots-arent-just-for-kids-many-adults-could-use-a-booster-too
Measles Shots Aren't Just For Kids: Many Adults Could Use A Booster Too


So where are all the politicians demanding mandatory revaccinations for all adults or they will be fined, banned from leaving home, or thrown in prison?  Funny how things change when it isnt targetted at a particular group.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 12:35:26 PM by iam4liberty »

Online FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6109
  • Karma: 772
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2019, 01:25:52 PM »
This is the most recent CDC data published yesterday as an early MMWR release:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6817e1.htm?s_cid=mm6817e1_w


Quote
Summary

What is already known about this topic?

Measles was eliminated in the United States in 2000.

What is added by this report?

During January 1–April 26, 2019, a total of 704 cases were reported, the highest number of cases reported since 1994. Outbreaks in close-knit communities accounted for 88% of all cases. Of 44 cases directly imported from other countries, 34 were in U.S. residents traveling internationally; most were not vaccinated.

What are the implications for public health practice?

Unvaccinated U.S. residents traveling internationally are at risk for acquiring measles. Close-knit communities with low vaccination rates are at risk for sustained measles outbreaks. High coverage with measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccination is the most effective way to limit transmission and maintain elimination of measles in the United States.

Tables are at the bottom. 

The imported cases are 77% US travelers and 91% of imported cases are unvaccinated or unknown.

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2019, 03:33:00 PM »
This is the most recent CDC data published yesterday as an early MMWR release:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6817e1.htm?s_cid=mm6817e1_w


Tables are at the bottom. 

The imported cases are 77% US travelers and 91% of imported cases are unvaccinated or unknown.

They are looking across the thousands of modern vaccination cases.  So it includes such ones as this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak.

But the data you cite is not inonsistant.  "Among the 704 cases, 503 (71%) were in unvaccinated persons".

Online FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6109
  • Karma: 772
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2019, 03:49:27 PM »
1987?


11% were in vaccinated persons and 18% were unknown.

How likely is it that an unknown is actually vaccinated?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 04:09:41 PM by FreeLancer »

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2019, 05:54:48 PM »
1987?

11% were in vaccinated persons and 18% were unknown.

How likely is it that an unknown is actually vaccinated?

My understanding is that almost all will be as those are primarily people who were reportedly vaccinated but actual medical records were unavailable to confirm exact type.  Hence why CDC presents data the way it does.

But it is really simple math, right?  Lets use the most liberal 97% individually effective and 92% of population immunized.  For unimmunized lets assume 100% contagiouseness with no-one naturally immune. Then in 1000 cases we would have:

Vacinated:  1000 * 0.92 immunized * 0.03 inneffective = 28 infections.
Not vaccinated: 1000*0.08 not immunized * 1.0 contageous = 80 infections
Total infections = 28 + 80 = 108.
% infections vaccinated = 28 /108 = 26%
% infections not vaccinated = 80/108 = 74%

And this math assumes the most extremely favorable assumptions. Truth is measles is at most 90% contageous to those without natural immunity and many who havent been vaccinated have natural immunity (in fact CDC assumes all unvaccinated people born before about 1960 to have natural immunity).  And the measles vaccinations are being found to realistically be 88% effective (and it is unclear how this reduces over time).

The only reason the percent infected among unvaccinated is higher in promoted cases is what Mountainmomma pointed out earlier, that some are purposly infecting kids through parties to create natural immunity.  So this skews the infection numbers versus what it naturally would be.

But the media generally ignores the actual science and math.  So it is interesting to see CDC stressing this and launching campaign for adult vaccinations.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 06:02:14 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2019, 07:28:48 PM »
Here is a dramatic case from 2011 to illustrate this.  The patient zero was fully vaccinated and two of the four secondary were vaccinated and the other two previously had measles and should have had immunity.  So you can understand why the CDC, unlike the media, takes vaccine failure seriously.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time
Measles Outbreak Traced to Fully Vaccinated Patient for First Time

And even if a fully vaccinated person does become infected—a rare situation known as “vaccine failure”—they weren’t thought to be contagious.

That’s why a fully vaccinated 22-year-old theater employee in New York City who developed the measles in 2011 was released without hospitalization or quarantine. But like Typhoid Mary, this patient turned out to be unwittingly contagious. Ultimately, she transmitted the measles to four other people, according to a recent report in Clinical Infectious Diseases that tracked symptoms in the 88 people with whom “Measles Mary” interacted while she was sick. Surprisingly, two of the secondary patients had been fully vaccinated. And although the other two had no record of receiving the vaccine, they both showed signs of previous measles exposure that should have conferred immunity.
...
If it turns out that vaccinated people lose their immunity as they get older, that could leave them vulnerable to measles outbreaks seeded by unvaccinated people—which are increasingly common in the United States and other developed countries. Even a vaccine failure rate of 3% to 5% could devastate a high school with a few thousand students, says Robert Jacobson, director of clinical studies for the Mayo Clinic’s Vaccine Research Group in Rochester, Minnesota, who wasn’t involved with the study.



Online FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6109
  • Karma: 772
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2019, 09:25:30 PM »
But the media generally ignores the actual science and math.  So it is interesting to see CDC stressing this and launching campaign for adult vaccinations.

You going to get boosted?

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2019, 10:11:30 PM »
You going to get boosted?

Nope, waiting for the vaccination order so I can fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Freedom is more important than a miniscule increase in security.

Online FreeLancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6109
  • Karma: 772
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2019, 10:40:38 PM »
It'll never happen for an adult.  Kids, maybe.  They'll just quarantine you during an outbreak.

Public health precedent is pretty strong, and a century long, too.

Offline iam4liberty

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 3751
  • Karma: 303
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2019, 07:41:03 AM »
Public health precedent is pretty strong, and a century long, too.

Not really,  As posted earlier the supreme court precedent being relied upon is too narrow in scope to be applicable and was handed down prior to incorporation of major parts of bill of rights to the states.  That is why every modern case using criminal law either fails early on or the state yanks it before it gets to Supreme Court.  This is what New York recently did:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nyc-health-officials-strike-criminal-penalties-from-measles-vaccination-order/ar-BBW4I1O
NYC Health Officials Strike Criminal Penalties From Measles Vaccination Order

Hence, those threats are all political theater. Right now New York is trying to use civil penalties based on the Obama Care mandate ruling.  There are currently about 60 people they tried to intimidate through this route via $1000 mandate tax penalty.  But this too looks likely to fall. 

By the way, it looks like the adult campaign is being yanked.   CDC is now saying explicitely not to get boosters.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 07:46:06 AM by iam4liberty »