Author Topic: Measles hysteria NY  (Read 1309 times)

Offline surfivor

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2019, 01:08:40 PM »
 I don't trust these people and they seem crazy. I worry that they want so badly to push vaccines that they could try to create fake pandemics. I am not even sure I believe it when they say X number of measles cases where reported, maybe they exaggerated or made it up

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2019, 06:28:23 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/nyregion/measles-outbreak-ny.html
Measles Outbreak: Tensions Rise as New York City Steps Up Response
A Hasidic woman was heckled when she boarded a public bus.


But as health officials plunged into Brooklyn’s Williamsburg neighborhood to enforce the mandate, tensions only escalated.
...
“I am a religious Jew, whose religious convictions are being blatantly violated by the vaccine Diktats, which are a clear violation of the Nuremberg Code, which forbids forcing medical procedures on anyone without their fully-informed consent"
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“Childhood diseases, like measles and chickenpox, unlike smallpox and ebola, are not a legitimate public health menace, and do not justify an emergency declaration.”
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In the wake of the emergency order, Jewish leaders say they fear a continued rise in anti-Semitism. In recent months, Hasidic neighborhoods have been the targets of a slew of anti-Semitic hate crimes, and Jewish leaders reported another one on Thursday.

Rabbi David Niederman, the president of the United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg, said a city bus driver tried to refuse service to a Hasidic woman in Brooklyn. The driver eventually let the woman board, Mr. Niederman said, but then shouted “measles” at her and directed her to move to the back of the bus.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2019, 08:13:06 PM »
https://hamodia.com/2019/04/02/rockland-county-executive-accused-stoking-anti-semitism-measles-declaration/
Rockland County Executive Accused of Stoking Anti-Semitism With Measles Declaration

A week after Rockland County’s executive announced a ban on unvaccinated minors in public places, reports claim that while the proclamation comes with no means of enforcement, its most tangible result has been a spike in anti-Semitism.
...
a New York Times article entitled, “An Outbreak Spreads Fear: Of Measles, of Ultra-Orthodox Jews, of Anti-Semitism,” referenced several incidents of non-Jewish Rockland residents fleeing stores after spotting Orthodox Jews shopping there.

The Times quoted a store clerk who recalled the story, saying that one customer had grabbed her child and said, “Let’s go, let’s go! Jews don’t have shots!’”

County Legislator and askan Aron Weider told Hamodia that the emergency declaration had “absolutely” led to an increase in anti-Semitic rhetoric and feelings in the county, well beyond the handful of incidents mentioned in the article, and that a significant amount of the blame lay with Mr. Day’s approach in making the declaration.

“He [Day] knows what would have been the responsible way to go about this, and in my opinion he deliberately did it this way to further exploit the tensions that he knows exist,” he said.
...
Steven Gold, the chairman of the Jewish Community Relations Council for the Jewish Federation of Rockland, said that since last Tuesday, his agency had heard of an increase in bias comments against Orthodox Jews.

“The declaration made people feel freer to make anti-Semitic comments,” he said. “Just because there’s an outbreak in these communities, that shouldn’t give anybody a right to be openly anti-Semitic."
...
This is hardly the first time Mr. Day has been accused of exploiting tensions surrounding the quickly expanding Orthodox community in Rockland. He has supported a long list of measures widely seen as aimed to discourage further growth and was elected in 2013 with enthusiastic backing from the Preserve Rockland group — an organization that is likewise seen by many as dedicated to agitating against the area’s Orthodox community and in some instances against Judaism itself.

In 2016, Sreeramulu Nagubandi, the county’s long-serving Commissioner for Human Rights, filed a lawsuit that alleged that the county executive had openly expressed a desire to limit the Orthodox community’s growth and to make daily life difficult for them.

Mr. Weider said there was little in Mr. Day’s record to dissuade him from thinking that his actions regarding the ban were not motivated by animus.

“Ed Day has a long history of being antagonistic towards the Orthodox community. His own human rights commissioner accused him of being overtly anti-Semitic.”

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2019, 08:56:02 AM »
So sad that they have to do this just to retain basic rights.


Kevin Connery from Brooklyn holds a protest sign outside the Rockland County Office Building in New City in protest of the State of Emergency

Offline Prepper456

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2019, 03:32:38 PM »
I think I read measle cases in New York have gone 300 or 300% above normal due to not vaccinating.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2019, 05:50:09 PM »
Courthouse News, 4/17/19: Measles-Vaccination Order Extended Across New York City

Quote
The New York City Board of Health voted unanimously Wednesday to continue an emergency measles vaccination order...

The order, first declared alongside a public health emergency April 9, requires people who live or work in four Brooklyn ZIP codes to receive the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine if they cannot show proof of immunity or provide medical exemptions. ...

...Williamsburg has seen a “surge” of vaccinations: around 400-500 people, many of them young children, have gotten vaccines in the last week or so.  ...but about 14% of Williamsburg children between the ages of 1 and 5 still have not received any doses of the MMR vaccine. ...

The long incubation period, and the number of children who remain unvaccinated, mean the outbreak is likely to get worse before it gets better. City health officials have counted 329 cases since Sept. 30, 2018. That number was at 285 a week ago.

Williamsburg is home to 81% of the measles cases, with Borough Park, another Brooklyn neighborhood, trailing behind at 16 percent. Children ages 1 to 4 represent 49% of cases.

Almost all New York City cases have been concentrated within the Orthodox Jewish community, and the city has focused recent efforts on encouraging vaccination before families see relatives for Passover. ...

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2019, 09:27:45 PM »
Courthouse News, 4/17/19: Measles-Vaccination Order Extended Across New York City

That's one way to put it.  Like I posted last week, they yanked the origional one which was clearly illegal ahead of tommorrow's court hearing.

Such a waste of taxpayers' money given city will pull order the day hefore case is reviewed.  It is all theater meant to flame hate and divide people.

It was replaced with a non-zipcode based order with different terms.  People are now ignoring it and refusing to talk with health department.  Not a single church is going to close their doors for Easter like they are ordering.  This order will be yanked too as soon as it comes to court.  No-one will ever be charged.  This is a total failure and is just political theater.

I don't trust these people and they seem crazy. I worry that they want so badly to push vaccines that they could try to create fake pandemics. I am not even sure I believe it when they say X number of measles cases where reported, maybe they exaggerated or made it up

No need.  They have been changing reporting so they can pump up reported numbers to scare people. 


I think I read measle cases in New York have gone 300 or 300% above normal due to not vaccinating.

The media throws around all kinds of "percents" to scare people.  It is all based on chosen base periods.  Truth is these numbers are well within expectations.  There will always be flaps caused by international travel like this one.  Until we get to multiple thousands it is not out of norm.  Here are CDC charts based on reported cases.  This includes an upward bias as there are now activists trying to skew numbers going into reporting.  The corresponding number for late 1990s was just about 1000.  With small numbers like these you can always generate large percent rises or falls simply by choosing comparison year.  This is especially the case by looking at specific geos where you might have only a couple in a given year.



This whole media narrative that gains from vaccinations have been lost due to "antivaxers" is laughable.  First measle vaccination rates are up (about 92% vs. 90% a decade ago).  Second, we used to have 450,000 reported cases a year. A few hundred is miniscule by comparison.  It wont even visually show up when graphed.  Said another way, measles is down by 99.9% and nothing is going to change that.



Online FreeLancer

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2019, 09:39:59 PM »
WSJ:  Measles Outbreak Upends Passover Traditions

Quote
The growing measles outbreak is colliding with Passover, one of the holiest Jewish celebrations and a time when families travel to be together.

New York City health officials have warned that the holiday, with its large get-togethers and long, ritual meals, risks spreading measles, which is highly contagious and easily transmitted.

Quote
Medical professionals who serve the Orthodox community and rabbinical authorities have called on parents to vaccinate their children, said Rabbi David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America. “The large majority of Jewish schoolchildren are indeed vaccinated.”


WaPo:  An Israeli flight attendant contracted measles. Officials are now urging crews to get vaccinated.

Quote
Officials with Israel’s Ministry of Health said a 43-year-old flight attendant for the national airline El Al had flown back to Israel late last month from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York. New York state has been a battleground for concurrent measles outbreaks in Brooklyn and Queens, as well as in Rockland County. However, because of the woman’s “impaired mental status,” officials said it could not be confirmed where or when she contracted the virus.

Eyal Basson, a spokesman for Israel’s Health Ministry, told The Washington Post that the woman, who is believed to have been vaccinated as a child, was admitted to a hospital March 31 and has developed encephalitis, a severe complication from measles that causes the brain to swell. As of Wednesday, Basson said in a statement, the woman was unconscious and in serious condition.

Quote
Basson said public health experts have not been able to speak with the woman because she is unconscious, but her mother told them that she had received all required childhood vaccinations, which, in the 1970s, would have included one dose of a vaccine intended to protect against measles and other childhood diseases. Israel now recommends two doses of the MMR/MMRV (measles, mumps, rubella and varicella) vaccine, but it’s not known whether the woman received the second dose.

Quote
People born between 1957 and 1989 generally only had one MMR dose. One dose is about 93 percent effective at preventing measles, but anyone in that age group can still get a second dose, says Russell Faust, medical director for Michigan’s Oakland County health department. The county, part of metropolitan Detroit, has an ongoing measles outbreak with 39 cases reported. Two doses are about 97 percent effective. Even if you had two doses (or can’t remember), it’s okay to get a third dose, he says.


CNN:  Israeli flight attendant in coma after getting measles

Per Dr. Itamar Grotto, associate director general of Israel's Ministry of Health, it's not an issue of religious belief with the ultra-orthodox, but having more kids than they have time to get vaccinated.

Quote
There have been 3,920 cases of measles in Israel from March 2018 through April 11, said Grotto, who is also a professor of epidemiology and public health at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev.

Quote
Grotto said there was a surge of cases in Israel last fall when large numbers of ultra-Orthodox Israelis traveled to Ukraine on a religious pilgrimage during the Jewish New Year. Ukraine has had more than 72,000 measles cases this year, more than any other country, according to the World Health Organization.

About 85% to 90% of Israeli measles cases have been among ultra-Orthodox Jews, Grotto said.

There's nothing in Judaism that teaches against vaccination; on the contrary, rabbis encourage vaccination in keeping with Jewish teachings on protecting your health and the health of others.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews tend to have large families, and Grotto said those who don't vaccinate tend to have practical, not ideological, reasons.

"Sometimes, they vaccinate their first or second child, but with so many children, they don't always have time to vaccinate them all," he said. "They're not against vaccines. They have nothing against them ideologically."


The Times of Israel:  El Al flight attendant hospitalized in serious condition with measles

Quote
Israel has seen an outbreak of measles in the past year, recording 3,600 cases since March 2018, according to the ministry.

Infections have mostly centered on the country’s ultra-Orthodox community, where inoculation rates have generally been low.

In November, an 18-month-old toddler in Jerusalem died of the disease, the first recorded death from measles in Israel in the past 15 years. A month later, an 82-year-old woman became the second fatality.


Encephalopathic for ten days and on a vent.....sounds like Israel's third measles death is imminent. 

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2019, 09:59:28 PM »
So, given the CDC estimate of 40,000 to 80,000 deaths from flu per year vs. zero from measles, shouldnt we quarantine the entire country?  Where are all the politicians? 

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-09-27/cdc-80-000-people-died-of-flu-complications-last-season-in-us
CDC: 80,000 People Died From Flu Last Season
The 2017-2018 flu season was the deadliest in at least 40 years.


Pure political theater.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2019, 10:45:11 PM »
Where is the outrage against the flu "antivaxers"?    I wonder how many militant vaxers are up-to-date on their flu shots?  Shouldnt anyone without flu shots be banned from all public spaces?

Simple answer is Flu cant be used to target specific religious  communities so isnt a prime candidate for political gain via the hype wagon.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-02-01/cdc-2-more-child-deaths-linked-to-flu?context=amp
CDC: 2 More Child Deaths Linked to Flu

Two more children were reported to have died in connection with the flu as activity picked up in the U.S. last week, according to an update from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

As of Jan. 26, health officials reported a total of 24 children whose deaths were associated with the flu this season, compared with more than 80 pediatric deaths as of the same time period last season. A total of 185 flu-linked child deaths were reported last season, up from 110 the season before.
...
The agency estimates that up to 11.7 million people had gotten sick with the flu from October through Jan. 26, with roughly half that total visiting a doctor. New York City and 23 states experienced high levels of flu-like activity last week, and the virus was widespread in 45 states.
...
"Each year flu places a large burden on the health and well-being of children and their families," the CDC says. "Annual influenza vaccination is the best method for preventing flu and its potentially severe complications in children."


Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2019, 11:11:08 PM »
So, given the CDC estimate of 40,000 to 80,000 deaths from flu per year vs. zero from measles, shouldnt we quarantine the entire country?  Where are all the politicians? 

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-09-27/cdc-80-000-people-died-of-flu-complications-last-season-in-us
CDC: 80,000 People Died From Flu Last Season
The 2017-2018 flu season was the deadliest in at least 40 years.


Pure political theater.


That is a very good point.

ANd, while I do agree it is political theatre, and that hte flu has always been MUCH deadlier that the measles,  you cant compare the effectiveness of the two vaccines.  The flu changes constantly, and they never have a fully "good" targeted vaccine, so the flu vaccine is often not very effective, and it would have to be done every single year, and often still not be affective, so it is not as hypocritical as it first appears  There is still a logical consistency to getting regular vaccines and not the flu vaccine.

That said, the real point is that the flu is very deadly, and measles is not.  And, people have hysteria over the measles, and do not take the flu seriously enough, kids are often not kept home enough and nursed enough these days.  I had the second flu this season, which was the more serious one, the strain that had the 2 in it, most likely.  I stayed home for 2 weeks.  I guess I could have "powered" thu it, as people do, but it is better to recuperate properly, to rest up properly and to not infect the rest of the world.  Like I said on another thread,  vaccine-choicers often have a whole different view of disease, so we often treat our illnesses appropriately which also means we do not get them as serious.  I was not seriously ill for these 2 weeks, I was just sick, but I could tell its potential.  I chose to prioritize giving myself the best care so as to avoid getting seriously ill. 

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2019, 01:41:38 AM »
Where is the outrage against the flu "antivaxers"?

Shouldn't be too hard to find some long-ass posts from me, right here on this forum, from way back in the day.   :banghead:


I wonder how many militant vaxers are up-to-date on their flu shots? 

I don't know who the hell the militant are.......

But with physicians it's very high, around 96%, higher than any other class of healthcare worker.  I haven't missed one in 25 years, neither has my wife.


Shouldnt anyone without flu shots be banned from all public spaces?

Banning them from hospitals would be fine with me.  Nosocomial flu has bad morbidity and mortality compared to community acquired.


Simple answer is Flu cant be used to target specific religious  communities so isnt a prime candidate for political gain via the hype wagon.

It's apples and oranges, because the flu vaccine provides no lasting protection, has to be reformulated every year, and is frequently less than half as effective as measles.  The R0 for measles is an order of magnitude greater than flu, too.  Measles takes the cake in terms of potential airborne spread, worse than smallpox, flu is at the bottom of the list. 

I fail to see the religious persecution being unique to measles.  Especially since the religious/philosophical belief flag is always been hoisted high when arguing about mandatory flu vaccination for healthcare workers.


But, hey, I'm just glad to see flu being taken seriously.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2019, 03:33:33 AM »
Quote
There's nothing in Judaism that teaches against vaccination; on the contrary, rabbis encourage vaccination in keeping with Jewish teachings on protecting your health and the health of others.

Vaccines can have fetus cells, injecting human cells into your body that came from a different person than yourself could be seen as highly questionable and not in line with similar religious principles. Forced medication were it seems questionable need not be spelled out in religious rules because it should be obvious where the problems can arise and history has shown this

The claim of 80,000 people died from the flu last year sounds questionable to me. You can never trust some of the stats they put out. It seems known for instance that aids stats for Africa are not reliable

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2019, 07:29:27 AM »
I don't know who the hell the militant are.......

Than you haven't seen news or been on social media.  Per webster:

militant
aggressively active (as in a cause) : COMBATIVE
Example: militant conservationists

It's apples and oranges, because the flu vaccine provides no lasting protection, has to be reformulated every year, and is frequently less than half as effective as measles.

You just made case to be even more militant towards flu vaccinations than measles.  If there is no lasting protection than there can be no herd immunity without constant shots.  Flu has not been eliminated in the US, measles has.  Plus, there is natural immunity to measles as well.  As CDC says, there is no chance for measles to be endemic while flu is massively so.

Where is the constant media drum beating?  Where are the aggressive, illegal orders?  Strange we dont see them for flu. Why? Because they havent found a way to leverage it for political gain.  If they called for $2,000 fines for anyone without a flu shot they would be out of office in a heartbeat.  But if it is just some Amish, Jews, Catholics, Native Americans, etc under assault for having religious and scientific convictions, they are less concerned as it doesnt affect them.  Political theater.

The claim of 80,000 people died from the flu last year sounds questionable to me. You can never trust some of the stats they put out.

It is true those are all guestimates. In any specific case they are likely wrong by 20% or so.  But on average over long periods of time they are pretty close.  But they must be interpreted correctly.  When it comes to diseases, rarely is it interpretted correctly in the media.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 07:38:09 AM by iam4liberty »

Offline David in MN

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2019, 11:39:52 AM »
I'm the guy around here who opposes the flu shot. But that's just based on the statistics that show it's not really effective. But the iatrogenics of the flu shot are a far cry from an MMR. I don't think anyone believes the measles vaccine isn't effective. I can accept (though it's a poor decision) rejecting it on religious grounds but I can't accept a comparison.

What skeeves me out is the logical conclusion. I have a headcold right now. Should I be allowed in public? Should I be allowed outside? Should I be chained up in my basement for public safety until my entire house can be fumigated? Can you do that with a hot Russian girl in a latex police uniform?

Hey, I'll ask it another way... Are we making sure immigrants are vaccinated? Are our sanctuary cities responsible?

When you turn to the legal system to fix long human issues like public health it can't help but end in a dark place. I don't know what the right answer is but I'm very scared a government that mandates preventative medicine. With modern DNA testing you're getting real close the early 1900s dream of eliminating "undesirables".

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2019, 05:34:31 PM »
You just made case to be even more militant towards flu vaccinations than measles. 

Ok, fine, I'm a militant vaxxer, then. 

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Measles hysteria NY
« Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 07:44:14 AM »
Update. On radio they are reporting dismissal of case by Orthodox Jews. As expected, with change in order Judge ruled that they cant prove they are being forced to vaccinate and therefore cant get an injunction. So the political theater continues.  So glad I dont live in area where government is allowed to terrorize minorities. The whole "you dont have a legal claim until after you've been put in the gas chamber and knobbed turned" is such a bizarre concept.  Threats by government are actions and should be treated as such.  From the clips the judge came off as an anti-semitic jerk.  The judge even dismissed their rabbis as being religious authorities.  Apparently Jesus wouldnt qualify as a religious leader in New York.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:06:26 AM by iam4liberty »