war on cash -- bank deposits

[mountainmoma]

So, I needed to get my college student some money, and my life has been crazy so I did not take care of it as soon as I heard of the issue, so I needed the money to be available the next day.

No problem, right ? We know that they will do a hold on money from checks, so I figure I will just get cash form my account, go to a local branch of the students bank and deposit cash so that it would not have any holds on it.

So I get cash, I go to the other bank, the teller says NOPE, you cannot deposit cash into someone elses account.  I say, well what if it is LESS cash, I will give you less and a check for the rest ?  NOPE, the amount is not the issue, you cannot deposit ANY AMOUNT OF CASH into this account that isnt yours.  But they will take a check.  But they will not have the check money available the next day.  This is a Chase bank.  My bank, a credit union, they still do not have this issue and will take cash ( thank God, there were a few occasions when an unammed person was late on child support and drove there and put CASH into my account...).  I know Umqua bank will take cash for these types of deposits also.  So, it is not a requirement, realy, they are volunteering.  Chase says it has to do with the patriot act and that soon all banks will have this requirement and they are just being cooperative and doing it early.  I cannot believe that people in the more freedom loving areas of the country would put up with that.  Do you guys even know about this ?

[FreeLancer]

That's AML/KYC standard operating procedure for banks serving US customers around the world.  That's how they follow the money and financial institutions have to tow the line to stay in the game.

[mountainmoma]

That's AML/KYC standard operating procedure for banks serving US customers around the world.  That's how they follow the money and financial institutions have to tow the line to stay in the game.

nope. Not according to the couple bank employees I've talked to or this,which does not mention the patriot act, and this was written recently:

https://www.bankrate.com/banking/checking/cant-deposit-cash-into-someone-elses-account-these-are-your-options/

Under the Bank Secrecy Act, financial institutions must take certain steps to detect and combat money laundering, like reporting suspicious activity and transactions involving more than $10,000. But adopting certain policies–like stopping consumers from depositing cash into others’ accounts–is at the discretion of each bank, says Steve Hudak, a spokesman for the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network.

“It’s up to the bank to have policies and procedures in place to be able to file these reports and this is also based on risk,” Hudak says. There’s not a rule that says precisely what transactions banks can accept but they have to base their policies on risk.”

Cash deposit bans at Bank of America, Wells Fargo and Chase only affect personal accounts. Customers can still have others deposit cash into their business accounts.

the article also puts forward an addtional reason that these couple large banks may want to go this way, to save themselves money even though it inconveniences the customer:

Prohibiting customers from making certain cash deposits could be another indication of how the role of bank branches in the financial industry is changing.

“Fewer customers going into bank branches makes it easier to close bank branches, which I think is something the banking industry is increasingly trying to do, trying to move their customers toward electronic payments,” says John Breyault, vice president of public policy, telecommunications and fraud at the ‎National Consumers League.

It also says that Capital One and PNC, like Umpqua will still accept cash deposits and also have no plans to change the policy.

[FreeLancer]

But this is not done at all banks.  It is not done a the bank I bank at and it is not done at Umpqua Bank which is quite large out of state, either.  Both of these will take cash deposits to someone elses account.  I talked to a couple bank employees I know, and this is not a government requirement at this time

I rarely deposit cash in my own account and can't remember ever trying to deposit cash someone else's. 

Maybe the definition of Know Your Customer is left up to the discretion of the institution? 

My credit union is looser than any of my banks in terms of amounts I'm allowed to transfer between institutions via ACH.  CU is fine with multiple $10k outbound transfers per month, the others cap transfers out at a couple grand per month.

[David in MN]

If you know the account and the PIN you could do it at an ATM. I think it's technically illegal but I doubt that's enforced.

All bank transfers are getting goofy. I've had a bunch of issues and I know of at least 3 people who were told they couldn't do what they wanted, threatened withdrawing their accounts, and then were allowed to go through with the transaction.

[iam4liberty]

Yep.  That is why Walmart Bluebird has become so popular with college students and parents.  Since it isnt part of the banking system it skirts all the crazy regs and policies.  And together Walmart and American Express are powerful enough to keep the cartel at bay.

[mountainmoma]

If you know the account and the PIN you could do it at an ATM. I think it's technically illegal but I doubt that's enforced.

All bank transfers are getting goofy. I've had a bunch of issues and I know of at least 3 people who were told they couldn't do what they wanted, threatened withdrawing their accounts, and then were allowed to go through with the transaction.

I think an atm would need an atm card.  Banks may still have night deposit slots, where you put the cash in an envelope with a deposit slip.

I think the takeaway is to not do business with those banks who errode our rights to use cash.  So my college student will close this Chase account in a few months once the initial teaser bonus time is up.  Mostly even the student uses our county credit union as there are sister ATMs in the college town to make small withdrawls, but ATMs have small daily limits on cash withdrawls.  So, since post-grad studies are going to take up another 4 years, we will find out which banks are decent in that area, for one, I looked it up last night, there is an Umpqua bank there and they do not have this crazy policy ! So, there is option one.  We will also look into Union Bank, bank of the west, citi bank etc.....

My takeaway for preparedness on this is to think about it, and who you bank with.  Yes, this may not come up often for people, maybe never, but what we plan for here is preparedness for the unlikely, the emergencies.  If you have a family emergency, any family member, sibling, child, parent,  and you want to give them money they can access right away ( no holds on funds from a check) can you do it ?  So this is a heads up that for at least those major 3 banks, Chase, Wells Fargo, Bank of America as this is a big change and fairly recent,  Chase was the first to implement it in 2014.  So, you might not have been aware until now that you cant do this anymore at these, and possibly other, banks. 

The other thing I am going to do, as I have been slipping a little lately, is to increase my day to day cash transactions.  Sometimes things are use it or lose it and there is a fight to do away with our use of cash and I find that very anti-freedom.  SO I am going to step up my gasoline and grocery cash purchases, I was all cash but have let it slide lately. 

[fritz_monroe]

Well, it's probably something coming to every bank sooner or later.  After all, terrorists and drug dealers are using cash, so we have to treat every other person like a criminal in order to possibly catch one of then.

[Smurf Hunter]

Within our close family, we have electronically established links between various accounts, so that we can do direct ACH transfers in a pinch. There's usually no feed, but it might take a couple business days.  I've done it to float money to a relative for travel expenses, etc.  For whatever reason I have more confidence than if I mailed a paper check for the same.

[FreeLancer]

Within our close family, we have electronically established links between various accounts, so that we can do direct ACH transfers in a pinch. There's usually no feed, but it might take a couple business days.  I've done it to float money to a relative for travel expenses, etc.  For whatever reason I have more confidence than if I mailed a paper check for the same.

Same here.

[mountainmoma]

Within our close family, we have electronically established links between various accounts, so that we can do direct ACH transfers in a pinch. There's usually no feed, but it might take a couple business days.  I've done it to float money to a relative for travel expenses, etc.  For whatever reason I have more confidence than if I mailed a paper check for the same.

Sure, there are alot of ways to send or transfer money like what you mention. But, they all having clearing delays of a few days.  If I put cash into my account there is no waiting, it is immediately available.  If my ex husband puts cash into my bank account or I put cash into my college students bank account, it is there and available.  There is no waiting for things to "clear"

Also, paper bills are our legal tender.  There should be no reason that I cannot do transactions with cash.

[Smurf Hunter]

Sure, there are alot of ways to send or transfer money like what you mention. But, they all having clearing delays of a few days.  If I put cash into my account there is no waiting, it is immediately available.  If my ex husband puts cash into my bank account or I put cash into my college students bank account, it is there and available.  There is no waiting for things to "clear"

Also, paper bills are our legal tender.  There should be no reason that I cannot do transactions with cash.

Putting cash into your OWN account is an entirely different arrangement than depositing into the account of another person at a different bank.

Back when I was in college, I had a checking account that my parents were signers on.  It was a national bank that was local to each of us.  This was a little bit before online banking was a common thing, but mom could call or walk into a branch and transfer $500 from her checking into mine, and it was available immediately, because it was just her moving from account A to account B.  No inter-bank routing etc.  That was in the late 1990s. 

Today we have at least 5 accounts at our local credit union. Since they are free, we find it helpful for budgeting and other thing. Each of our kids have an account, and funds are immediately available to them when I transfer using my smart phone app.

[mountainmoma]

Putting cash into your OWN account is an entirely different arrangement than depositing into the account of another person at a different bank.

Back when I was in college, I had a checking account that my parents were signers on.  It was a national bank that was local to each of us.  This was a little bit before online banking was a common thing, but mom could call or walk into a branch and transfer $500 from her checking into mine, and it was available immediately, because it was just her moving from account A to account B.  No inter-bank routing etc.  That was in the late 1990s. 

Today we have at least 5 accounts at our local credit union. Since they are free, we find it helpful for budgeting and other thing. Each of our kids have an account, and funds are immediately available to them when I transfer using my smart phone app.

Well, we disagree.  It is no one elses business who I give money to, and many banks agree with me and DO allow it, just not Chase Wells Fargo or B of A.   Our local credit union allows it as well as other banks (such as Umpqua).   So I guess my Ex-husband should not have been able to put cash into my account when he didnt pay me on time ? Or, anyone else who might owe me money ? How is any of that anyone elses business ?



( an aside to the war on cash : Yes, the college student and I also both have accounts at the same credit union, and yes that does make transfering virtual money between accounts easy, etc... however college town student lives in is not in our home area and so does not have all the same bank branches we have here at home so college student can only get credit union money from an ATM there.  ( And, no, I am not ever going to have a Chase account ! ) )

Surely we all know that the major banks are all about money savings, which means less physical branches, less tellers, they love the move to ATM's and debit cards and online banking.  So realy it is not a stretch to see that they would embrace yet another way to discourage cash.  But, they havent all done so, so there is hope.  And I did my drop by the store stuff today with cash -- as I said this was a good reminder to keep up more cash transactions, use it or lose it.....   We cant be the only family on the forum that sometimes needs more cash than an ATM machine will spit out ?  Sometimes you need real money.... no-one else here shops off of Craigs List ? we need to keep up our rights and access to being able to use physical bills.....

[FreeLancer]

That's the hope with bitcoin and cryptocurrency, and one of the reasons for it's genesis, allowing everyone the ability to be their own bank without government censorship and/or confiscation.

[The Professor]

Yep.  That is why Walmart Bluebird has become so popular with college students and parents.  Since it isnt part of the banking system it skirts all the crazy regs and policies.  And together Walmart and American Express are powerful enough to keep the cartel at bay.

^^^^This.

The Professor

[mountainmoma]

Putting cash into your OWN account is an entirely different arrangement than depositing into the account of another person at a different bank.

Well,  better to look at what the difference is between putting cash in someone elses account vs putting a check into someone elses account......

So, this bank was saying sure you can make a deposit to someone elses account, no problem ! So obviously this is not some privacy concern or what have you, you can make a deposit to someone elses account with a check.  And, it cant realy be because of money laundering or drugs as there already is federal requirements to track large deposits/withdrawls or any structuring of smaller deposits that try to hide that it realy is large amounts.  So, if it realy had anything to do with drug/money laundering they could just cap the amount of cash.  They could cap it even lower than the federal mandates or make a rule that you cant have someone else deposit cash more than once a week or once a month.  But, you cannot even put in $10 or $100 cash once.  So, logically we can see that this has absolutely nothing to do with money laundering.

But, they say that checks are fine, it can't be cash, the paper bills that say "legal tender"......    I can come up with only 2 things different (1) And this is likely the main reason,  they do not want to deal with cash anymore than they have to.  They like to encourage virtual money, such as transfers, ATM usages and even the paper check ( as all they realy do with a paper check is enter the routing info and it realy is just another type of electronic transfer to them ) doing away with cash also gives more opportunities to track (2) They can track where they money came from if i is not cash.  This is the excuse they give, but I think the main reason is likely to be the move away from cash especially since they could make a rule that you have to show an ID to deposit cash into someone elses account, and while many who like cash would find that also to be objectionable, it would alow tracking and it would allow the deposit of money without holds -- so given that this is an option, Logically the real reason to not take the cash has NOTHING to do with tracking who depoosited it !

[mountainmoma]

Yep.  That is why Walmart Bluebird has become so popular with college students and parents.  Since it isnt part of the banking system it skirts all the crazy regs and policies.  And together Walmart and American Express are powerful enough to keep the cartel at bay.

I am sure this is another way to do banking, and probably very convenient for many people, but it does not have physical tellers, so as far as I can see, is also not a way to easily do business with cash, for example, you need to be by the correct type of ATM machine and are limited to taking out no more than $750 a day or $2000 a month !

So, it is a virtual bank and so is realy part of the move to virtual money and the war on cash, as far as I can find out ( there are no Walmarts at all in my county, so regionally I am not very familiar with their model, but I did look it up...)

I received an email today from Bluebird with changes to the ATM fees.
First the bad news:

Withdrawing cash from out-of-network ATMs will increase 50 cents to $2.50 beginning October 30, 2014.
Now the good news:

It’s now free to get cash from your Bluebird at in-network MoneyPass ATMs.  You can find your nearest MoneyPass ATM here.  It might even be in the Walmart where you load your Bluebird.

(Previously you had to have direct deposits to your Bluebird to get free withdrawals.)

While you’re still limited to withdrawing $2,000 per month, you can now take out as much as $750 per day.

So for folks who aren’t only using Bluebird to pay credit card bills and sending checks, it’s now easier to get cash.

https://millionmilesecrets.com/news/bluebirds-3-new-changes-to-getting-cash/

[iam4liberty]

I am sure this is another way to do banking, and probably very convenient for many people, but it does not have physical tellers, so as far as I can see, is also not a way to easily do business with cash, for example, you need to be by the correct type of ATM machine and are limited to taking out no more than $750 a day or $2000 a month !

So, it is a virtual bank and so is realy part of the move to virtual money and the war on cash, as far as I can find out ( there are no Walmarts at all in my county, so regionally I am not very familiar with their model, but I did look it up...)

https://millionmilesecrets.com/news/bluebirds-3-new-changes-to-getting-cash/

It isnt a virtual bank. It is actually the largest physical network in the world. Walmart handles more cash than anyone. In fact, you can actually take cash out of PayPal accounts at Walmart.  So they are the ultimate supporters of physical cash.

You load cash into bluebird accounts at Walmart registers.  See here: https://youtu.be/yxL23b-OoPY

But if you dont have a local Walmart then it makes it less valuable. 

Here is a quick overview for those interested: https://youtu.be/EG5wFK1QWNI

[FreeLancer]

What are the deposit and transfer limits for Bluebird?

[iam4liberty]

What are the deposit and transfer limits for Bluebird?

I believe account limit it is now $100,000 insured.  It used to be $250,000.  $750 withdrawl limit per transaction from ATM but I believe it is unlimited via Ria (but there will be a fee). Correction, it looks like ria has $2,500 limit. There is no transfer limit to my knowledge for those linked to your account (eg. children at college).

Lots of details here: https://www.bluebird.com/faqs/#manage

[fritz_monroe]

I asked at my Credit Union today.  They have no such regulation about not putting cash into someone else's account.  They also told me that each institution has their own rules when it comes to that sort of thing.

[mountainmoma]

It isnt a virtual bank. It is actually the largest physical network in the world. Walmart handles more cash than anyone. In fact, you can actually take cash out of PayPal accounts at Walmart.  So they are the ultimate supporters of physical cash.

You load cash into bluebird accounts at Walmart registers.  See here: https://youtu.be/yxL23b-OoPY

But if you dont have a local Walmart then it makes it less valuable. 

Here is a quick overview for those interested: https://youtu.be/EG5wFK1QWNI

Interesting, but they talk about how to get money in, and how to pay virtually or take small amounts of cash out of an ATM network. Nothing is said about withdrawing large amounts of cash, I doubt that the cash registers at a Walmart store keep alot of cash on hand, but maybe I'm wrong.  What I'm refering to is a situation like this :  ( since I have been thinking about banking the last few days a friend of mine who works in managing at a Bank  -- a bank that does not have these silly cash deposit issues I have been talking about here -- anyway, they had their monthly regional meeting today and one scenario that came up that that Bank was lauding them for was how the local branch helped the customer take out $30,000 so a family member of theirs could buy a ... (car or boat).  Now, like I said, I dont know anything about Walmarts,  but I dont think you could walk into your local walmart and take out $30,000 cash to buy a car or boat.  To me this is what is valuable about physical locations and local branches of banks,  the fact that you can deposit or withdraw cash, like real amounts of cash not what ATM's are limited to.  I also expect they likely have deposit limits at the registers, again I could be wrong, but I doubt they are letting someone go up to the register and hand them, hm, let's say $9,000 cash to put on their family members account (card) so that then the family member in another state is going to go to the local walmart and then withdraw that $9,000 to buy a used trailer.

[LvsChant]

I asked at my Credit Union today.  They have no such regulation about not putting cash into someone else's account.  They also told me that each institution has their own rules when it comes to that sort of thing.

^^^This. Some of their self-inflicted rules are arbitrary and serve no purpose, imo.

The bank I use for the non-profit for whom I work is Wells Fargo. They are just crazy with their stupid rules. I sometimes have small amounts of cash that members will send for payment for one thing or another... or when we have our conferences, some pay for books with cash. This is piddling relative to the total check payments I am depositing. I'm obviously not laundering money or dealing drugs. Also, I am at the bank several times a week, so it is completely ridiculous, but, yes.... I have to provide my identification every time I have any cash in a deposit for the account. It doesn't matter how little... no cash without an id. I find it intrusive and silly.

It's much like the TSA being prohibited from using any common sense.

[FreeLancer]

I’ve never withdrawn more than $6000 in cash from my credit union and they had to check with supervisors and managers and send someone to check the vault and see whether they could afford to dispense that many bills without impacting their ability to continue doing business the rest of the day. I remember one time they could only manage $2500 and I needed $4000, so I drove 5 miles to another branch for the rest. I like cash, but it’s a pain to actually use.  Have you tried spending a $100 bill?  Half the time nobody will take it.

[Carver]

Aren't you all okay with forfeiting a little freedom for a little security?

[mountainmoma]

I’ve never withdrawn more than $6000 in cash from my credit union and they had to check with supervisors and managers and send someone to check the vault and see whether they could afford to dispense that many bills without impacting their ability to continue doing business the rest of the day. I remember one time they could only manage $2500 and I needed $4000, so I drove 5 miles to another branch for the rest. I like cash, but it’s a pain to actually use.  Have you tried spending a $100 bill?  Half the time nobody will take it.

Your area is different I guess.

I spend $100 bills, so do others I see around here, not uncommon at all.  I used to work at the farmers market and it is easier, after the first couple minutes, to break a $100 than a $20. Everyone else is throwing $20's at you so you have plenty of $20's to give as change to that $100.  I pay in cash too, I dont hire people often, but when I do for that help laying plywood or using the tri-blade on my back field I pay cash.  Then they are out spending cash.  I had some wood delivered ahead for next year because he had too much and it was better for him to offload it earlier in the year, that is another cash payment, I could pay him by check, I guess, but he prefers cash, and it is way more polite to pay with cash.  I had the wrong change laying around though so he took a silver ounce for the last $15.  And, I do not live in a conservative, rural area !  People in other areas would be more upset of a bank not taking the cash than me I bet !

Guess you aren't buying many cars or boats or trailers with cash.....

They like a little notice if you are withdrawing alot.  In my banking friends area, where people more commonly deal with cash than you might,  $5,000 or under they can usualy do, as it is common that many people are withdrawing cash, so there is no fuss or calling of managers.  For the $30,000 the customer let them know a day ahead so hey could have it available, that is typical for real large amounts, let them know.

[FreeLancer]

I sold an old car on craigslist a decade ago to somebody in N. California and he sent a barely understandable flatbed driver down here to pick it up and traded me 24 x $100 from a greasy roll of bills for the title.  It was kind of weird. 

I did $5k once for some artwork, but that was from the home stash.  It was weird, too.  I don't like walking around with that much cash, much less pulling it out for the transaction.  I don't even like asking for it at the bank window because everybody behind you line has it all figured out by the time I'm walking to my car.

I don't think I'd be comfortable at all doing a $30k transaction between me and a stranger.  Family, maybe.....

[mountainmoma]

I sold an old car on craigslist a decade ago to somebody in N. California and he sent a barely understandable flatbed driver down here to pick it up and traded me 24 x $100 from a greasy roll of bills for the title.  It was kind of weird. 

I did $5k once for some artwork, but that was from the home stash.  It was weird, too.  I don't like walking around with that much cash, much less pulling it out for the transaction.  I don't even like asking for it at the bank window because everybody behind you line has it all figured out by the time I'm walking to my car.

I don't think I'd be comfortable at all doing a $30k transaction between me and a stranger.  Family, maybe.....

You've got to practice concealed cash carrying more often to get more comfortable, you looking like you feel weird is what will tip people off.  Practice large cash carrying until it feels natural maybe 

watch this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEEYmpN112c    a craigs list exchange 

[FreeLancer]

You've got to practice concealed cash carrying more often to get more comfortable, you looking like you feel weird is what will tip people off.  Practice large cash carrying until it feels natural maybe 

watch this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEEYmpN112c    a craigs list exchange 

I think you're right.  Funny video.

[LvsChant]

Aren't you all okay with forfeiting a little freedom for a little security?

in a word: NO!

I'm not convinced this actually even helps. It's like the TSA frisking 85 year olds in wheelchairs. Am I any safer because they followed their randomly selected procedure of frisking the ??th person? Absolutely not.