Author Topic: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart  (Read 549 times)

Offline Mr. Bill

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AP, 8/9/19: Armed man at Walmart says he was testing right to bear arms

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Prosecutors on Friday filed a terrorist threat charge against a 20-year-old man who said he walked into a Missouri store wearing body armor and carrying a loaded rifle and handgun to test whether Walmart would honor his constitutional right to bear arms.

The incident, just days after 22 people were killed during an attack at another Walmart in El Paso, Texas, caused a panic at the Springfield, Missouri, store. Dmitriy Andreychenko walked through filming himself with his cell phone Thursday afternoon.

No shots were fired and Andreychenko was arrested after he was stopped by an armed off-duty firefighter at the store. ...

He was charged with making a 2nd degree terrorist threat.  Here's the relevant Missouri law:

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Title XXXVIII CRIMES AND PUNISHMENT; PEACE OFFICERS AND PUBLIC DEFENDERS
  Chapter 574

  574.120.  Making a terrorist threat, second degree — penalty. — 1.  A person commits the offense of making a terrorist threat in the second degree if he or she recklessly disregards the risk of causing the evacuation, quarantine or closure of any portion of a building, inhabitable structure, place of assembly or facility of transportation and knowingly:

  (1)  Communicates an express or implied threat to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life; or

  (2)  Communicates a false report of an incident or condition involving danger to life; or

  (3)  Causes a false belief or fear that an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life.

  2.  The offense of making a terrorist threat in the second degree is a class E felony.

  3.  No offense is committed under this section by a person acting in good faith with the purpose to prevent harm.

Here's a PDF of the felony complaint.  The entertaining reading is on pages 3-4.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2019, 02:52:26 PM »
It's like testing 1A by yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2019, 04:02:40 PM »
It's like testing 1A by yelling fire in a crowded theater.

That's what the prosecutor is saying, but I'm not sure how it'll work out in court.  What Andreychenko did was incredibly stupid and inconsiderate, but I predict it'll be tough to convict him on the 2nd degree terrorist threat charge.  3rd degree would be easier to prosecute.  The difference is whether his actions constituted "reckless disregard" (i.e. he knew what might happen and didn't care) vs "criminal negligence" (i.e. he failed to foresee the consequences that a reasonable person would have foreseen).

Underlying this is the fact that it's legal to openly carry a rifle in Missouri.  Does it become illegal just because bystanders get scared?  (I'm talking about law, not about how we want things to be.)  I don't know about court precedents in Missouri, but this question has gone to court in other states, and the rulings have been along the lines of: if you've got a right to openly carry as long as you don't do it in a threatening manner, the mere fact that someone got scared is not enough to make it illegal, because that would mean the right effectively does not exist.

I think they're extra-mad at Andreychenko because two people did get seriously injured: a police officer who was driving at high speed to the scene, and the driver of another vehicle that the officer collided with.

Offline Stwood

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 05:01:05 PM »
Yea.......70 miles from us.

Stupid.......yes.

They've had to dig for things to charge him with.
Needs his ass kicked, head examined....etc....etc.......

Offline Redman

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2019, 05:46:12 PM »
Based on Mr. Bill's post the prosecutors are reaching. Open carry of a long gun is legal in TX also. I high school I carried a couple shotguns in the gun rack of my truck many days, to school. Nobody said anything. Left them there all day, windows down, doors unlocked, nobody bothered them.

Offline Stwood

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2019, 05:55:58 PM »
Yes I agree they are reaching.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2019, 10:52:21 PM »
Is it true an off-duty fireman held this dumbass at gunpoint until police arrived?

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2019, 08:10:47 AM »
Is it true an off-duty fireman held this dumbass at gunpoint until police arrived?

Yep.  He was concealed carry. 

Police made interesting comments like the individual was very lucky he wasn't shot and that it would have been reasonable if CCW holder took more aggressive action. They have video footage which shows the tacticool kid in action that they believe shows his purpose was to create a scene.  Also, from reports it appears they have evidence of some sort that he knew the Walmart policy only allows for pistols.  So, that is how the threat charge will be handled.  At very least it is trespassing.

Offline Stwood

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2019, 09:13:01 AM »
Yep. Good on the fireman. It was outside the building apparently

Offline David in MN

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2019, 09:28:50 AM »
We write these laws in order to protect the innocent. Plenty of people tote a rifle while out in bear country or could be on a 4 wheeler hunting trip. I've heard of game wardens advising people carry a rifle or shotgun after sightings of dangerous creatures.

I'm the biggest 2nd Amendment guy you'll probably ever meet. But walking into a place of business decked out in riot gear and wielding a rifle is nothing but a stunt to terrorize innocent people going about their day. Funny goof at the gun range but totally unacceptable in public.

I'd like to see some accountability for  the traffic accident. He set those wheels in motion. And he certainly gave no thought that his actions could cause an elderly person to have a heart attack or a young mom to drop a baby. Not hard for me to say he "acted in bad faith". It's a Walmart. Nobody needs that scare while getting milk and eggs for the kids.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2019, 02:41:42 PM »
Apparently he was pissed that Walmart won't sell him ammo until he's 21 so this dumbass decides to pull a boneheaded stunt to illustrate.....who the hell knows what.  Definitely an object lesson in the tendency towards poor judgement in males under age 25. 

Offline Stwood

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2019, 02:54:11 PM »
10-4 on that.
Stupid stunt
Stupid reason to do it.

Offline archer

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2019, 08:07:03 PM »
what a stupid idiot, he should be glad he was not awarded a darwin award for that act of stupidity.  if cops had showed up he'd have been put down i expect.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2019, 09:35:32 PM »
Yep. Good on the fireman. It was outside the building apparently

He went into the store and started pushing a cart around filming himself and scowling at everyone else.  Manager pulled fire alarm to get everyone out of his way.  He was originally waiting for police to arrive but got nervou seeing store emptying and tried to escape through an emergency exit.  That is when CCW holder stopped him which probably saved his life.

Offline Stwood

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2019, 10:57:26 PM »
Our latest KY3 Springfield news reported he was mad because he had to be 21 to buy ammo there.

Offline archer

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Re: Testing 2nd Amendment rights by open-carrying rifle into Walmart
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2019, 05:08:24 PM »
Our latest KY3 Springfield news reported he was mad because he had to be 21 to buy ammo there.

so stupid x2 then...