Author Topic: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election  (Read 4080 times)

Offline David in MN

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2019, 11:19:20 AM »
I'm not arguing the value. I'm just wary of the possible legal ramifications that could arise. When you hold someone against their will you're in dangerous territory of false imprisonment or kidnapping.

That said, I'm a hobby lockpick so I have a box of padlocks and plenty of chain so...

It's a really dark last resort.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2019, 12:53:20 PM »
A single bad guy is one thing, a violent mob is quite another. 

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2019, 07:27:28 PM »
A single bad guy is one thing, a violent mob is quite another.

With a large mob the best bet is to redirect them using barricades and, if necessary, suppressing fire.  Just like the battle for k-town. 



But the vast majority of rampaging will be by small groups of vandals.  Except in a few cities, the numbers of violence oriented protesters is small and will be easily handled.

In most areas, if the police need help they will just draw upon us citizens they know they can trust.  They have started doing this in portland despite the cries of 'no fair' from ANTIFA.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-oregon-arrest-patriot-prayer-trump-free-speech/
Man Confirms Officers Asked For Help Arresting Portland Protester


Todd Kelsay, left, assisted federal law enforcement officers in restraining and handcuffing an antifa protester outside of a pro-Trump free speech rally in Portland on Sunday, June 4, 2017.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2019, 09:40:39 PM »
This is something that's been increasingly on my mind, but I've not been sure how to post it, since we no longer have the TFHB, anymore.

I'm not taking sides on this, politically, but let me make a few personal observations:

Historically, it's been the Far Left that has been the most violent.  If the Republican Candidate wins, they'll lose their collective minds, again.  We've seen examples of rioting and general stupidity wherein they've destroyed even their own "holy places" (think Starbuck's).

Currently, I see two semi-realistic scenarioes arising from a political upset.

The First is if the Republican Candidate wins.  I expect widespread unrest (yes, even in Indiana, despite the law).  They run on emotion.  No laws are going to stop them, least of all a worry about some Red-Stater trying to zip-tie them.  Proof is in the recent spate of such disturbances.   While they whine and snivel and even curse out the police, they are quick to turn to the boys in blue when they feel they've been slighted.  They expect this protection, so no jackwagon wearing a red hat is going to intrude on their right to riot.  Logic goes right out the window in a riot and the anonymity of a wilding crowd.

The Second I expect is if the Left Candidate wins.  Same scenario, just on a smaller, more celebratory scale.  Despite all the chest-beating and promises to "take to the streets," the average conservative just is not a rioter.  A counter-protestor?  Maybe, some are. . .but as a general rioter?  I don't think so. 

However, even though I expect some level of unrest, I don't think it will necessarily be on a large enough scale to truly disrupt general lives.  Rioters typically don't riot in neighborhoods.  They tend to riot in business districts or in places where they'll be more easily seen/noticed.  Luckily, I live in a rural area so even if all the people "surrounding" me is a Far-Lefter, I'll maybe have a dozen protestors to deal with.  Furthermore, I don't expect it to last more than one or two nights.  If it does last longer than that, and if it's the Far Left who's doing it, then I think it will revert back to cowardly attacks similar to those that the Left perpetrated in the late 60's and early 70's.

The real problem comes when I go into town for business.  FWIW, we've been updating our Get Home Bags and making sure they're in each of our vehicles when we leave the house.  The ability to egress or bunker in place (away from  home) until the threat passes becomes vital.

My biggest fear is if I/we do get caught up in a major riot or unrest while away from home.  I remember watching the LA riots as they pulled Reginald Denny from his truck. A year or so ago, there was a night time video shot from a balcony where people where throwing stuff at vehicles including metal road blocks.  Look at the Antifa riots where they were forcing cars one way or the other.  The wife and I have been working at how to unass the vehicles as a team and get to cover if the vehicles become inoperable or immobile.

And, yes, that equates to armed self-defense.  We've considered most everything including less-lethal methods such as OC/CS dispersal devices.

Our most likely course of action is that we'll take the entire election week off as vacation.  We live out in the country, so we could just stay home and encourage our friends to do so, as well.

The Professor

Offline David in MN

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2019, 10:15:29 AM »
There is something weird happening with police. From the disaster of Charlottesville where I am of the belief the police directed protestors into one another to ensure a melee happened to local issues where police locked doors while elderly women were assaulted in the street by protestors to Portland just having a "stand down" order where ANTIFA directs traffic and beats up old men something is going on.

I don't know if it's a political mess or what but it is alarming that police have ceded control to violent street gangs. These are gangs who have escalated from "glitter bombing" anti-gay politicians to throwing milkshakes to openly talking about putting concrete in the milkshake.

I actually believe the police are hamstrung by city governance which won't permit them to take back the cities but it has to catch in your craw that there are several instances of police letting this unlawful protest and even violent interactions continue unabated. To be fair I don't know what a couple cops could hope to effect in the face of violent mobs if they have no support from leadership and are out-muscled.

Even if there is some semblance of law and order you still are throwing the dice at best. Good old LA jury decided that hitting Reginald Denny with a brick was every bit the non-crime of cops beating a shackled Rodney King. King was recorded and Denny was assaulted on live TV but the juries decided that was the correct thing to do.

It's worth the perspective. If you unwittingly get gummed up in one of these events the police will not likely be able to protect you at best and might steer you into violence at worst and the courts may offer no redress. Do your best to "not be there".

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2019, 10:48:50 AM »
Lots of useful ideas here.  But I think only FreeLancer really addressed the situation I'm worrying about:

Scenario: the results of the next Presidential election are close, and the apparently-losing side refuses to concede, claiming that fraud and/or hacking caused a false outcome.  Extremists on both sides (plus angry people who don't fit on the left-right political spectrum) start resorting to violence.  They are joined by normally-nonviolent people who believe the other side is attempting a coup. ...

I'm not talking about a few weeks of Antifa breaking windows and torching buildings (although that's a believable scenario).  I mean a situation where both the Democrats and the Republicans claim to have won the presidential election, and we're at serious risk of a literal civil war.

I'm not sure how this would be resolved via politics or the courts, or whether any such resolution would be negated by the actions of private citizens.  I do know that the Republicans have a lot more firearm-owning supporters than the Democrats do.  Things could get very messy for an extended period of time.

Offline David in MN

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2019, 11:33:04 AM »
Lots of useful ideas here.  But I think only FreeLancer really addressed the situation I'm worrying about:

I'm not talking about a few weeks of Antifa breaking windows and torching buildings (although that's a believable scenario).  I mean a situation where both the Democrats and the Republicans claim to have won the presidential election, and we're at serious risk of a literal civil war.

I'm not sure how this would be resolved via politics or the courts, or whether any such resolution would be negated by the actions of private citizens.  I do know that the Republicans have a lot more firearm-owning supporters than the Democrats do.  Things could get very messy for an extended period of time.

Well we went through that in Florida in 2000 and Hillary never conceded in 2016. For better or worse we have a couple months between elections and swearing in. Things usually work themselves out. There's a lot of shady stuff that can go on like the clearly fraudulent votes for MN senator Al Franken but for the most part it comes out in the wash.

There's a lot that could stir the pot though. Lots of claims of Russian agents (like Tulsi???) from the Clinton camp and let's be honest Ruth Bader Ginsberg is hanging on by a thread. It's not beyond the possibility that the DNC and RNC could lose control of their conventions and even the Libertarians are going tooth and nail as the Mises Caucus has their sights on Nick Sarwalk. Things are so shattered Obama won't endorse his own VP. It's an odd time.

But an all out war of all against all? I'd bet against it. I think getting caught in a downtown skirmish is more likely than a full blown civil war or even wholescale unrest. I'll admit we're in a dark place but pointing a gun at someone because they voted wrong just feels too far.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2019, 05:47:35 PM »
However, even though I expect some level of unrest, I don't think it will necessarily be on a large enough scale to truly disrupt general lives.  Rioters typically don't riot in neighborhoods.  They tend to riot in business districts or in places where they'll be more easily seen/noticed.  Luckily, I live in a rural area so even if all the people "surrounding" me is a Far-Lefter, I'll maybe have a dozen protestors to deal with. 

Yes, this is likely. It will be concentrated in very limited areas. 

The First is if the Republican Candidate wins.  I expect widespread unrest (yes, even in Indiana, despite the law).  They run on emotion.  No laws are going to stop them, least of all a worry about some Red-Stater trying to zip-tie them.  Proof is in the recent spate of such disturbances.   

Only a very limited number of places in Indiana.  Even in Chicago-influenced Lake County (home of Gary Indiana) where 70% are democrats, only 58% voted for Clinton.  And it was a tie in St Joseph County where Mayor Pete is. So, you got those two and maybe a couple areas in Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, and some students in Bloomington.

There will be zero where I am. The number one employer is a coal-based aluminum plant that Obama forced closed but restarted because of Trump. The few remaining elected democrats actually support Trump. 

As an example, Trump had a rally near here.  For weeks the media pushed that there were going to be thousands of protesters, many who were going to riot.  The reality was there were 13,000 Trump supporters and under 150 anti-Trump protesters.  There were three incidents.  One anti -Trumper hit a MAGA hat wearer.  The MAGA hat wearer punched him back knocking him out.  The police arrested both then released them after they paid a small amount.  An ANTIFA type got in an argument with a cafe owner and pulled a knife on him. Three people reached for their guns and he dropped the knife and was picked up by a cop.  Another ANTIFA type slapped a woman and then ran away.  On the positive side, a protester lost his wallet which was found by a pro-Trumper.  The pro-Trumper turned it in to police who returned it to the owner.  The media appeared heartbroken by how quite it was.

There were a couple days of riot in Indianapolis in the mid 1990s in response to a police incident.  Primarily it was activists bussed in from St Louis and Chicago.  They allowed them to break windows for a couple nights.  But once it started to get beyond that it was shut down. 

Violent riots are just not embedded in the culture here.

I'm not sure how this would be resolved via politics or the courts, or whether any such resolution would be negated by the actions of private citizens.

Well, ultimately whoever convinces the Chief Justice to swear him/her in will probably come out on top. That is a pretty powerful tradition.  Cant imagine the majority not accepting that.

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2019, 07:23:34 PM »
Lots of useful ideas here.  But I think only FreeLancer really addressed the situation I'm worrying about:

I'm not talking about a few weeks of Antifa breaking windows and torching buildings (although that's a believable scenario).  I mean a situation where both the Democrats and the Republicans claim to have won the presidential election, and we're at serious risk of a literal civil war.

I'm not sure how this would be resolved via politics or the courts, or whether any such resolution would be negated by the actions of private citizens.  I do know that the Republicans have a lot more firearm-owning supporters than the Democrats do.  Things could get very messy for an extended period of time.

This is my concern as well.  I know there's been states that have signed a pact to change their electoral votes to match the winner of the nationwide popular vote.  But in the past couple of years, there's been a full court press to try to get this into other states.  According to Washington Post, there's 12 states that have signed a pact.
Colorado signs on to popular-vote effort ahead of 2020 presidential election

My worry is something similar to 2016 happens.  The Republican nomination wins the electoral vote, but the Democrat wins the popular vote.  The states that have signed this pact put it in to action and change their electoral votes to give the election to the Democrat nomination.  Democrats claim the win.  The Republicans claim that this is not legal.  Both sides see themselves as the winner and the opposing side has stolen the election.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2019, 03:59:45 PM »
Yes, this is likely. It will be concentrated in very limited areas. 

Only a very limited number of places in Indiana.  Even in Chicago-influenced Lake County (home of Gary Indiana) where 70% are democrats, only 58% voted for Clinton.  And it was a tie in St Joseph County where Mayor Pete is. So, you got those two and maybe a couple areas in Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, and some students in Bloomington.

There will be zero where I am. The number one employer is a coal-based aluminum plant that Obama forced closed but restarted because of Trump. The few remaining elected democrats actually support Trump. 

As an example, Trump had a rally near here.  For weeks the media pushed that there were going to be thousands of protesters, many who were going to riot.  The reality was there were 13,000 Trump supporters and under 150 anti-Trump protesters.  There were three incidents.  One anti -Trumper hit a MAGA hat wearer.  The MAGA hat wearer punched him back knocking him out.  The police arrested both then released them after they paid a small amount.  An ANTIFA type got in an argument with a cafe owner and pulled a knife on him. Three people reached for their guns and he dropped the knife and was picked up by a cop.  Another ANTIFA type slapped a woman and then ran away.  On the positive side, a protester lost his wallet which was found by a pro-Trumper.  The pro-Trumper turned it in to police who returned it to the owner.  The media appeared heartbroken by how quite it was.

There were a couple days of riot in Indianapolis in the mid 1990s in response to a police incident.  Primarily it was activists bussed in from St Louis and Chicago.  They allowed them to break windows for a couple nights.  But once it started to get beyond that it was shut down. 

Violent riots are just not embedded in the culture here.

Well, ultimately whoever convinces the Chief Justice to swear him/her in will probably come out on top. That is a pretty powerful tradition.  Cant imagine the majority not accepting that.

I am very familiar in the area of which you speak. In fact, I once worked for Uncle Al while working on my undergrad degree nearby.

I might suggest that you reconsider your position of "it can't happen here."  While I would agree with you in general, I think there's going to be a lot of priming the pump, politically speaking, in the year preceding the election.

Take a close look at the largest town in the area of which you speak.  Almost 1 out of 4 (actually 23.3%) live in poverty. The town has a higher crime rate than 96% of the rest of the US and 98% of the rest of Indiana.

These are the exact people which will be pandered to by the Leftists.  They are falling all over themselves promising free stuff to everybody.  They will be expecting it, after all. . .they are ENTITLED to it.

I have no doubt that Trump's election numbers will be like they were in 2016.  The problem is, as others have pointed out, is that some won't wish to observe the legal definition of winning.  We have already had the Governor of Colorado say that he will "most likely" direct Colorado's Electoral candidates to side with the popular vote (note the caveat. . .I'd bet that he will claim he was just considering the idea if Trump wins the Popular Vote).  I also promise you that if it's close, every freaking news channel (with the possible exception of FOX) will be screaming for blood and how the dreams and lives of millions of poor and dependents were ripped from their hands by the crooked, evil conservatives.   They will make those poor feel that they've had their promised welfare hikes, their free cell phone, their free food, their free homes, and everything else stolen from them.

That town of which you speak recently held a vote of it's own police officers that show a ridiculously large number of them have no confidence in their own Police Chief.  With the number of meth busts, the number of murders, rapes, etc. climbing while the number of fielded officers drops. . .it's no wonder.

That river city is a powder keg and the Leftists are running around with fists full of strike-anywhere matches in one hand and a can of gasoline in the other.  I would still expect something to happen if the Conservative win and the riots happen elsewhere.  The squeaky wheel does, indeed, get the oil.

And, while the result may not be as spectacular as, say, Chicago, East St. Louis, Nashville, etc. . .if you're caught in a crowd of 150 pissed off liberal free-everything promisees. . .

Well, it may not be the best day you've ever had.

The Professor

PS- Oh, don't forget that the kids nowadays have been conditioned to flashmob for any reason whatsoever.  So, maybe protests are out, but if you're in the Drugstore they attack, will the results not be the same?   After all, they've been taught that Trump will take away their free ride future, their free healthcare (and subsequently their lives), their environment and their world (what, in 12 years?). 

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2019, 06:08:01 PM »
I am very familiar in the area of which you speak. In fact, I once worked for Uncle Al while working on my undergrad degree nearby.
...
Take a close look at the largest town in the area of which you speak.  Almost 1 out of 4 (actually 23.3%) live in poverty. The town has a higher crime rate than 96% of the rest of the US and 98% of the rest of Indiana.

You are correct by 'town' but that is definitely not representative of the area. If you look at the poverty rate for the area it is 15.4% and this is not adjusted by cost-of-living.  Adjusted by COL it is well below national average. The unemployment rate is 3.1%.  The crime rate quoted is similarly skewed, with the city-center level driven by drug crime due to the creation of the I-69 meth corridor. 

If you are interested, you might want to check out the Mayoral debate from yesterday.  A friend of mine is running (I will let you guess at which one).  For the first time in the city's history there is no Democrat candidate.   

Where I specifically am located was named one of the 10 best places to live in Indiana and the number one place in the state to retire.  Our sheriff and police chief have everything well in hand.  It is a completely different force than the one you mention (which, again, is fighting the drug corridor issue).

I have no fear of liberals.  I am equally as comfortable in a room full of liberals as conservatives.  Even if 150 of them prone to violence could be gathered (highly unlikely), I am someone who didn't vote for Trump and doesn't support him so there is no reason for them to target me. 

That said, it is a wise idea not to be in any city-center on election night.  But I am definitely not going to lose sleep that a mob will spontaneously spring up in my town and start rampaging.  It isn't realistically going to happen.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2019, 01:14:20 PM »
The Count Love Project at Boston University has some very interesting data.  They have been monitoring protests over the last decade using verified media reports.  They have made maps showing the types of protests by area as well as overall trends. The below map is particularly pertinent.  It shows the population of the states (size of circle) by concentration of protesters (color).  Obviously, DC is off the chart.  But there is a wide variety across the other states.



Another interesting chart is the comparison of urban vs. rural.  What they found is that while the levels of protests may vary, the topics driving protest when they happen are very similar.  So there is consistency in concerns if not in actions.



Here is an interesting time lapse video of various protests.  There are definitely some consistent areas across all types of issues (i.e. a culture of protest).  These are obviously the areas most susceptible to future outbreaks.  It may be worthwhile to see what has occurred in your area. There have been none in my area and only a very small one in the largest nearby city.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEK8ty5goxI&feature=youtu.be


Offline The Professor

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2019, 01:32:05 PM »

My biggest fear is if I/we do get caught up in a major riot or unrest while away from home.  I remember watching the LA riots as they pulled Reginald Denny from his truck. A year or so ago, there was a night time video shot from a balcony where people where throwing stuff at vehicles including metal road blocks.  Look at the Antifa riots where they were forcing cars one way or the other.  The wife and I have been working at how to unass the vehicles as a team and get to cover if the vehicles become inoperable or immobile.

Here is the link to the riot/unrest video of which I earlier spoke:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4mQg0qVBng

The background of this appears to be a post-soccer game fan riot.  However, it shows what I fear. . .unrest even with a smaller crowd base. . .not hundreds, but scores.

Of particular note is the 0:20 - 0:45 timeframe.  The antagonists actually attempt to gain entry into a vehicle with limited success.

All this, supposedly, over a mere soccer game. 

The Professor

Offline Stwood

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2019, 03:44:21 PM »
I'd be popping bullets into their heads while they were trying to gain entry to my car.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2019, 03:55:35 PM »
I'd be popping bullets into their heads while they were trying to gain entry to my car.

Next year I am hoping to on takie an evasive driving course.  i planned to do it this year but had to cancel to cover a meeting for a colleague.  It is ingrained in us not to break the road lines, run over people, etc. Stopping in the middle of a riot is a good example of living on auto pilot putting one in danger. 

Offline David in MN

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2019, 04:40:37 PM »
Next year I am hoping to on takie an evasive driving course.  i planned to do it this year but had to cancel to cover a meeting for a colleague.  It is ingrained in us not to break the road lines, run over people, etc. Stopping in the middle of a riot is a good example of living on auto pilot putting one in danger.

I took one and I was amazed how hard you can run a car. You train on a little sports car and then graduate to a Suburban. You are literally going 40 in reverse and realizing the road is an "option". It flies in your face when the teacher reminds you that your life is in danger and "fucking up the car" is a way out. If you have that big truck or SUV you "can" smash through the mall's front door. They will teach you to lay on the horn and jump a curb while the trainer is next to you screaming "my baby's dying". They are good classes if for no other reason they really shatter your normalcy bias. Hard part is that it only applies in that darkest of days. 99.99999999% you're better off obeying the limit and having plenty of space. But it did break me of my bias. In the right circumstance I will plow through a neighbor's fence and get the family to safety in the park.

Offline cmxterra

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2019, 06:09:25 PM »
If you have not completed you ammo fort, now would be the time. No matter who wins or loses you can expect more laws to be coming onto the books making it more difficult to procure food for your pew pew.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2019, 06:22:52 PM »
If you have not completed you ammo fort, now would be the time. No matter who wins or loses you can expect more laws to be coming onto the books making it more difficult to procure food for your pew pew.

hey CMX - good to see you.  I am thinking it is time to invest in our firearms

Offline Stwood

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2019, 06:33:09 PM »
If you have not completed you ammo fort, now would be the time. No matter who wins or loses you can expect more laws to be coming onto the books making it more difficult to procure food for your pew pew.


 :rofl:

Offline The Professor

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2019, 07:49:04 PM »
If you have not completed you ammo fort, now would be the time. No matter who wins or loses you can expect more laws to be coming onto the books making it more difficult to procure food for your pew pew.

I'd suggest doing it soon.  Once the political rhetoric starts flying, especially with the liberals now not even worrying about hiding their confiscation/banning intentions, the panic will grow.  That means supplies will go down, prices will go up and opportunities will become fewer and far-between.

We've set a deadline of the new year.  We're sitting pretty good, right now, but we're filling the finals "gaps"  in the next two months.

After that?

The Professor

Offline Stwood

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2019, 09:37:36 PM »
I'll hafta refill my stock pile, after having that boating incident. Sheesh......

Offline cmxterra

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2019, 06:37:00 AM »
I'd suggest doing it soon.  Once the political rhetoric starts flying, especially with the liberals now not even worrying about hiding their confiscation/banning intentions, the panic will grow.  That means supplies will go down, prices will go up and opportunities will become fewer and far-between.

We've set a deadline of the new year.  We're sitting pretty good, right now, but we're filling the finals "gaps"  in the next two months.

After that?

The Professor

Do you have reloading supplies?
Something else to think about.

Offline David in MN

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2019, 09:24:41 AM »
The political talk is totally off the rails. Julian Castro (I can't make this up) said that he wants to preserve abortion rights for trans women.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/27/julian-castro-debate-abortion-1385950

We live in a land where we need to protect abortion for those with a Y chromosome which feels like a head scratcher.

But the cool thing is that nothing is insane or off the table. So if you need a full auto deck mounted boat gun to defend yourself against invisible space aliens well that's about as logical as giving men abortions.

In another wonderful Democratic town hall we were told that mispronouncing a trans woman's name is "violence". Can't make this up either.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/oct/11/nia-malika-henderson-scolded-for-violence-after-mi/

So to be fair I have my space pirate deck gun and mispronouncing my family names is violence so I'm going to rack the cannon and let you work with Dziedzic and Przybilkski. I'm going to respond to your violence when you don't get the right Northern German pronounciation of Tamburich.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2019, 02:51:19 PM »
Much of the discussion in this thread has been about left-wing violence.  Trump wins re-election, and Antifa blocks a freeway and torches a Starbucks to support the right of uterus-free persons to obtain government-funded abortions, and then in a week they all go home and post angry memes on Facebook for the next 4 years.

Which side has more weapons?  Which side has organized groups of trained people who could form armed militias within a few days?

Scenario: Trump loses re-election according to the official results, but claims it's due to fraud and that he actually won.

What happens when Trump demands that his supporters defend his Presidency?  When he asks the same of his supporters in Congress, two dozen of them perform an act of civil disobedence, disrupting an impeachment hearing and illegally bringing cellphones into a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility.  I'm not asking whether y'all think this was justified.  My point is that some of Trump's supporters will violate the law in his defense, if they're convinced the Democrats are attempting a "coup".  So we should also be preparing for possible right-wing violence, and this could be greatly different in character than the Antifa vs Alt-Right skirmishes we've seen.

Offline Stwood

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2019, 02:56:21 PM »
Another scenero from Bill. Thanks

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2019, 06:45:46 PM »
Much of the discussion in this thread has been about left-wing violence.  Trump wins re-election, and Antifa blocks a freeway and torches a Starbucks to support the right of uterus-free persons to obtain government-funded abortions, and then in a week they all go home and post angry memes on Facebook for the next 4 years.

Which side has more weapons?  Which side has organized groups of trained people who could form armed militias within a few days?

Scenario: Trump loses re-election according to the official results, but claims it's due to fraud and that he actually won.

What happens when Trump demands that his supporters defend his Presidency?  When he asks the same of his supporters in Congress, two dozen of them perform an act of civil disobedence, disrupting an impeachment hearing and illegally bringing cellphones into a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility.  I'm not asking whether y'all think this was justified.  My point is that some of Trump's supporters will violate the law in his defense, if they're convinced the Democrats are attempting a "coup".  So we should also be preparing for possible right-wing violence, and this could be greatly different in character than the Antifa vs Alt-Right skirmishes we've seen.


And here be dragons.....

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2019, 08:09:08 PM »
Again, I'm really hoping to keep this focused on prepping and not politics.  The scenario is (I think) worth considering, regardless of whether you'd be sympathetic to the hypothetical right-wing militia.  (And also, they might not be sympathetic to you, if you don't meet their idea of "patriot".)

And here be dragons.....

Yeah, it's a huge unknown -- nothing similar has happened in this country in living memory, AFAIK.

Offline cmxterra

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2019, 08:52:15 AM »
I have noticed that the violence the liberal left inflicts is on a sliding scale from blocking streets, rioting and bike locks to the forehead.

However the conservative right seems to be more of an on/off switch. It will be a bad day when that switch gets flipped.

Offline David in MN

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2019, 09:30:12 AM »
Conservative politics is a civil war dumpster fire right now. It's the trendy thing to crap on Meghan McCain and Mitt Romney. The "nice guy" leaders are done. Bill Kristol will not hold the reigns again.

That said, if there is one group with a legit bone to pick... Just have a chat with dad about wading through rice paddies full of snakes while Jane Fonda smoked grass with the enemy and his tax dollar went to fund tenured professors who were from the Weather Underground and Baader Meinhoff Komplex.

You're going to tell a normal conservative that you will impeach his president over an offhand phone comment when the last guy used the IRS to target him and shipped guns to drug cartels with no issue?

As a guy who came from the right and still has a lot of family there something has changed. It's not flag waving Ron Reagan stuff anymore. It's a fight. Could it turn violent? Maybe. I hope not. Armed and motivated conservatives are a force. Didn't work out good for Hitler or Hirohito. Some angry corn farmers with experience on a gun have toppled empires.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Prepping for widespread political violence associated with the election
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2019, 09:58:46 AM »
Rioting by its nature is primarily a cultural response.  People have to be psychologically disenfranchised and impotent to believe it is a good idea to burn down their own community.  For the left extremists this is currently the case in isolated places as discussed above (Portland, Berkeley, Minneapolis, Seattle, LA, etc)..  For the middle and right this is not the case.  So for any type of major violent response there would have to be really compelling evidence of voter fraud with high level individuals besides the president confirming it; Vice-President, Chief Justice, Joint Chiefs, etc. 

Even then, the right extremists wouldnt riot but would probably do targetted actions outside of their own communities.  Those sympathetic to the fraud charges would control the majority of land so they would likely have free movement. 



They probably would choose to just cut off supply lines to those cities and let them destroy themselves.  For example, We probably would see the major West Coast ports, power grid and water lines severed in the first couple weeks.  Blockcades and ambushes on the roads would stop trucks from entering.  In short, they would be under seige.  As this happened the rest of the states would probably meet to overturn the fraudulent election. 

Chances of such a response are close to zero.  More likely, they would take a wait and see attitude. It wouldnt be until the left tried to implement policies like enforced firearm confiscations that they would respond by force.