Author Topic: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?  (Read 674 times)

Offline surfivor

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VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« on: November 28, 2019, 12:56:43 PM »
According to natural news this would ban martial arts as well as all weapons I guess ? If this is true it is the total opposite of the second amendment and what you always knew that the left eventually wanted to not just ban certain high capacity rifles but any form of self defense. I think that is easily witnessed in the UK and other places.

 I just linked to the sites of the actual law rather than natural news or infowars

https://legiscan.com/VA/text/SB64/id/2070814

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+ful+SB64+hil

 Paramilitary activity prohibited; penalty.

..

1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.

===========

other related articles

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/virginia-bluestate-secondamendment-gunlaws/2019/11/24/id/943090/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJQ3M2xcwv0

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/11/yes-virginia-they-want-to-seize-your-guns/#axzz66bWZOtij

https://wjla.com/news/local/virginia-2nd-amendment-sanctuaries


Offline iam4liberty

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2019, 07:26:11 AM »
viva la resistance!

https://freebeacon.com/issues/virginia-second-amendment-sanctuary-movement-just-getting-started/
Gun-Rights Leader: Virginia ‘Second Amendment Sanctuary’ Movement Just Getting Started


"Second Amendment sanctuary" supporters gather outside a meeting room in Amelia County, Virginia / VCDL

Offline surfivor

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2019, 07:50:33 AM »

I can easily imagine a day where if you were involved in gun rights advocacy or anything similar opposing leftist ideology then you could be denied employment, banking, credit etc. I would not underestimate what is possible and I think political non involvement is likely to just make it all more likely

Offline armymars

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2019, 10:14:18 AM »
I wonder if this includes my MARS training or the national guard.

Offline surfivor

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2019, 10:52:24 AM »
I wonder if this includes my MARS training or the national guard.

It is worded as if to prohibit martial arts. Hard to believe but these days anything seems possible

Offline surfivor

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2019, 12:53:21 PM »

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/newly-elected-lawmakers-plan-full-scale-assault-on-rifles-handguns-firearms-training/

Alert: Newly elected lawmakers plan full scale assault on rifles, handguns, firearms training

..

intent is no longer really required, leaving every gun range owners and employees susceptible to prosecution for simply doing business. It’s plain as day why this language is the way it is, because with these key words, only loose connections need to be established to criminalize gun owners and enthusiasts.


Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2019, 08:45:07 PM »
So... this is all a bunch of crap.

Here is the current law, which has been on the books since 1987:

§ 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.

Quote
A person shall be guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.

Here is the proposed new law (link provided by surfivor):

SENATE BILL NO. 64

The only change this bill makes (besides grammar and punctuation changes) is to add a third paragraph:

Quote
3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.

There is no new law against firearms, or martial arts, or paramilitary groups.  There's only an amendment to prohibit armed marches "with the intent of intimidating".  Disapprove of that amendment if you like, but this proposed law has nothing to do with taking away your right to learn Krav Maga.

Offline surfivor

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2019, 12:33:48 AM »
So... this is all a bunch of crap.

Here is the current law, which has been on the books since 1987:

§ 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.

Here is the proposed new law (link provided by surfivor):

SENATE BILL NO. 64

The only change this bill makes (besides grammar and punctuation changes) is to add a third paragraph:

There is no new law against firearms, or martial arts, or paramilitary groups.  There's only an amendment to prohibit armed marches "with the intent of intimidating".  Disapprove of that amendment if you like, but this proposed law has nothing to do with taking away your right to learn Krav Maga.

It doesn’t mention any martial arts specifically but the way it’s worded does sound like that although maybe it would never be enforced. Why does the legislature have to pass unconstitutional laws anyway I am not sure tho I do have some doubts if those laws would be applied but it is still interesting and no doubt they wish they could get people to comply with similar types of restrictions or if they had such apparent justification etc. any time there is a mass shooting or similar event they always push the envelope as much as possible even if the actual details of what happened or how it happen turn out to be very questionable. They establish a narrative and promote that towards their ends which is always a desire for restrictions

They are also apparently I guess taking an older unconstitutional law, adding to it and running it through once again, probably for added emphasis etc
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 12:51:31 AM by surfivor »

Offline surfivor

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2019, 01:24:05 AM »

When I read laws sometimes it’s not always clear what they mean. They appear to be run on sentences written in lawyer language that need a lawyer to translate them but different lawyers may also give different answers as to what the laws mean. I am not sure these laws are written in correct English and may seem very ambiguous

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2019, 04:57:13 PM »
So... this is all a bunch of crap.

Here is the current law, which has been on the books since 1987:

§ 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.

Here is the proposed new law (link provided by surfivor):

SENATE BILL NO. 64

The only change this bill makes (besides grammar and punctuation changes) is to add a third paragraph:

There is no new law against firearms, or martial arts, or paramilitary groups.  There's only an amendment to prohibit armed marches "with the intent of intimidating".  Disapprove of that amendment if you like, but this proposed law has nothing to do with taking away your right to learn Krav Maga.

The martial arts angle is a media seeded straw man to distract from the real issue which is an attempt to stop protests against their anti-gun legislation.  As explained by the various law enforcent websites:

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/virginia-bill-to-make-firearms-training-an-illegal-paramilitary-activity-and-felony/
Virginia bill to make firearms training an "illegal paramilitary activity" and felony?

3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.”.

How it will be Perceived/Explained:
Well now this will try to put you at rest from thinking that someone can legally start up some kind of training camp to prepare people to wreak havoc on your city, which with the way the law is written it can certainly be applied in that fashion.

And that portion pertaining to marching, well that’s to stop anyone from making it look like they own your streets via a militaristic grip and toting their scary guns. Keep in mind, this is how it will be sold and broadly digested.

How it can be Enforced:
That last Section, 3, is the most unique part of the law. While Section 2 can be applied much like Section 1 can, that third portion has the ability to criminalize open-carry demonstrations and peaceful protests.


In other words, if any group assembles in protest and anyone in the group, even a plant, has a firearm, then the politicians can say it was an attempt to intimidate.  The result will be the classification of everyone there as felons and thus they would all lose their firearm rights.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 05:05:28 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2019, 09:53:52 PM »

How it can be Enforced:
That last Section, 3, is the most unique part of the law. While Section 2 can be applied much like Section 1 can, that third portion has the ability to criminalize open-carry demonstrations and peaceful protests.[/i]

In other words, if any group assembles in protest and anyone in the group, even a plant, has a firearm, then the politicians can say it was an attempt to intimidate.  The result will be the classification of everyone there as felons and thus they would all lose their firearm rights.

I agree, this is a huge change in the law.

The existing law, so the first two parts, specifically state that there is an  Intent of furthering a civil disorder.

The third part, is way more subjective.  While it still contains the word "intent"  the rest, intimidation, is too subjective, it is in the eyes of the beholder, and this generally means the eyes of the person who feels intimidated.  This makes a person responsible for someone elses feelings.  I felt intimidated.  In this day and age, absolutely anything you do is going to "make someone feel bad"  which is interpreted as intimidation.  A person feels intimadated because another is open carrying, never mind that it is legal !  Now the legal citizen is a criminal because of how the first person felt !  Not to mention, in a way, isnt the whole point of any protest to be a show of numbers ?  A show of strength of shared purpose or thought of the demonstrators ?  So, in that sense, any person of the opposing thought would feel intimidated by that show of strength even in a political disagreement having nothing to do with 2A

Offline David in MN

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2019, 06:45:47 AM »
"Assembles with one or more person"... Does that include my kid in the carseat? I hate to say it but the vagaries of this law hang on intent. Beyond that it could just be a couple in a car with a cigarette lighter. It's that poorly written.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: VA legislature want to ban all paramilitary activity ?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2019, 04:27:31 PM »
They definitely need bigger meeting rooms in Virginia.  Maybe NRA will open up the headquarters space for the council next time.  ;)

We're rooting for you, Virginians!
 
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