Author Topic: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China  (Read 82941 times)

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #180 on: February 06, 2020, 01:09:47 PM »
You can't but ocams razir says go with whatever simple explanation you can come up with and I don't like that either

Ockham's Razor has just become an excuse for lazy thinking that leads to oversimplification.  Was relativity the simplest answer?  How about quantum mechanics?  Or even Newton's laws of motion?  The way users bandy it about suggests that we should accept that babies are delivered by storks and a chubby guy with a group of happy elves delivers all the presents found on Christmas morning.  After all there is no way that a multi-generational, nearly global conspiracy could possibly occur, right?  Clearly a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer is a simpler explanation.

One has to dig deeper to find truths.  In physics we never talk just about "simplicity" but rather about "elegance", the cross section of effectiveness with simplicity. That is a much better path.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #181 on: February 06, 2020, 01:58:07 PM »
Heliocentrism is a much simpler explanation of the solar system than epicycles, though. 

Offline David in MN

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #182 on: February 06, 2020, 02:46:30 PM »
Precisely why quarantine is counterproductive, more often than not, and should be used rarely.

100% agree. You're not a bad person because you got an illness and the knowledge you'll be stuffed in the dungeon where way, way, way worse stuff will become the way of life is not a good way of containing the virus. Let alone the problem of the first responders who will be themselves quarantined.

The only solution is a guilt free system where the infected are happy to self-report and stymie the spread. Lord help us, we'll never do that.

Offline antsyaunt

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #183 on: February 06, 2020, 03:02:00 PM »
The situation and the way it is being reported and handled do not make sense to me.  Why was it necessary to build large hospitals in China for patients with this virus if it’s just a flu?  Why is Hong Kong closing their schools for more than a month?  Why have flights been cancelled if it’s just a flu?  And why did the US DoD announce that military installations near 11 major airports could be used to quarantine people if HHS facilities become filled?  It doesn’t add up.  I would sincerely appreciate reasonable explanations from forum members or links providing explanations.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #184 on: February 06, 2020, 03:39:12 PM »
Heliocentrism is a much simpler explanation of the solar system than epicycles, though.

Perfect example.  The complete heliocentrism model is actually more complex than the competing geocentrism.  Under geocentrism the largest bodies in the sky, the sun and moon, and the vast number of stars were better explained than a pure heliocentric model.  It was only the "odd stars", i.e. the handfull of planets", which were out of sync.  It took a leap  of complex thinking to understand there were three separate motions, planets around sun, moon around earth, and rotation of earth.  That is the elegance, it is less simple but vastly more effective.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #185 on: February 06, 2020, 05:21:46 PM »
So simplicity is in the eye of the beholder.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #186 on: February 06, 2020, 07:02:38 PM »
So simplicity is in the eye of the beholder.

Geocentric: Sun, moon, planet, and stars all move in circles around earth. =>  More simple but less effective.

Heliocentric: Earth and other planets all move around sun in circles.  Moon rotates around Earth in a circle. Stars are stationary.  Earth rotates around its axis.  => Less simple but more effective.

But I can see other side too.  Which goes to show application of O.R. is purely subjective.  No skin off my nose. I will leave that to Tycho Brahe.

Back on topic, check out this video of evacuation cargo plane flight:  https://twitter.com/janisfrayer/status/1225295076227608578

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #187 on: February 06, 2020, 07:08:36 PM »
20 aboard cruise ship now stricken with coronavirus; the rest quarantined off Japan

Another 41 people test positive for coronavirus on quarantined cruise ship in Japan.  The latest test results, from the remaining 171 people who were tested for the virus, mean that 61 people have tested positive for the virus, according to Japan’s Health Minister, Katsunobu Kato.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #188 on: February 06, 2020, 09:16:39 PM »
The situation and the way it is being reported and handled do not make sense to me.  Why was it necessary to build large hospitals in China for patients with this virus if it’s just a flu?  Why is Hong Kong closing their schools for more than a month?  Why have flights been cancelled if it’s just a flu?  And why did the US DoD announce that military installations near 11 major airports could be used to quarantine people if HHS facilities become filled?  It doesn’t add up.  I would sincerely appreciate reasonable explanations from forum members or links providing explanations.

At this point we still don't know enough about the disease because it's caused by a novel virus we haven't seen cause disease in humans before, so we can't say with a high degree of certainty that it's "just a flu," although it may very well wind up having a similar death rate.  The closest relatives to this new coronavirus cause SARS and MERS, which appear to be much deadlier than this one but we won't know for certain until we have a better idea of how many people get a mild infection that doesn't make them sick enough to seek medical care. 

The conundrum that public health authorities face is how to best minimize the spread of an airborne infection like this without a good understanding (and won't for several months) of how the disease actually behaves.  It appears that many countries are taking a cue from China's unprecedented decision to quarantine 50 million of their own people and I believe decision makers feel they can't ignore the possibility that this new disease could turn out to be as deadly, or even worse, than the SARS outbreak was twenty years ago.  There's risks both ways with a response that's either too hot or too cold when a decision has to be made with incomplete information, but the temptation to overreact is obviously very strong.

I think the good news for those of us in North America is that we haven't detected the disease spreading out of control like it appears to be doing in China.  We've got a dozen confirmed cases right now that are isolated and being treated appropriately, and the planeloads of high risk US citizens from China are being held in quarantine (the first since 50 years ago for smallpox) so risk of exposure appears to be extremely small for the general populace.  This is not a disease that spreads as easily as measles, it's going to be closer to flu in that regard, so the likelihood that you could catch the disease from passing an infected person in the street is practically zero.  In the US our person to person transmission has been between close family members, and Germany has evidence of coworkers catching the disease during business meetings, so the contact would have to be close and prolonged to spread the infection.

Based on what we know about the disease, I don't think we in the US need to panic about this, but I also can't fault decision makers too much for being more aggressive in their response to this epidemic, either.  I was happy to see the CDC's Dr. Messonnier mention in one of her press conferences that one has to have a sense of humility in these situations and realize that we must be capable of adapting to changing data in order to make good decisions as this outbreak unfolds.  That's good advice for life in general, where we often have to do the best we can with what we have.

Offline Carver

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #189 on: February 06, 2020, 09:30:47 PM »
Not to muddy the topic, but economic consequences are a factor in this epidemic. Specifically there is a major negative impact on a totally innocent victim: Corona beer. The jokes about the virus being spread through that beer has been taken seriously by the naive. "Beer virus". This has happened before; a popular over the counter diet candy called "Ayd's" left the market because it's similar sounding name to the aids virus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayds

https://www.wsj.com/articles/your-corona-is-safe-from-coronavirusesno-need-to-add-disinfectant-11580908288

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Brands that happen to have some associations to the word are finding themselves issuing unusual clarifications. Searches for “coronavirus beer” and “beer virus” have spiked sharply over the past couple weeks, according to Google Trends. In the Boston Globe, among other media, Corona beer owner Constellation Brands STZ.B 1.90% has been forced to express confidence in the analytical power of its customers to discern the disconnect between imported Mexican beers and the virus.

Perhaps there should be a copyright search before any disease, hurricane or disaster is given a name of a popular innocent product.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #190 on: February 06, 2020, 09:44:04 PM »
WaPo:  Africa has 1.2 billion people and only six labs that can test for coronavirus. How quickly can they ramp up?

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No cases have been confirmed so far in any of Africa’s 54 countries, but the risk of an outbreak is high, World Health Organization leaders say. Africa is home to 1.2 billion people, including an estimated 1 million Chinese nationals, who tend to work in business, construction, oil and mining — a testament to Beijing’s increasingly tight relationship with Senegal, Nigeria, Ethiopia and beyond.

Flights from the Asian power bring at least 1,000 travelers to the continent each day. But as of this week, only six labs could test for the coronavirus. (In the United States, all cases were tested at the headquarters of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta until Wednesday, when test kits were sent to more than 100 state labs.)

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Cities across sub-Saharan Africa — thought to be the fastest-growing region on Earth — are densely crowded, which elevates the risk for respiratory contagion, experts say.

Multiple outbreaks are ongoing in other parts of Africa, including simultaneous Ebola and measles outbreaks in eastern Congo. If the coronavirus were to arrive in Africa, some resources probably would have to be diverted away from the response in Congo, complicating already fraught efforts there.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #191 on: February 07, 2020, 12:55:48 PM »
Perhaps there should be a copyright search before any disease, hurricane or disaster is given a name of a popular innocent product.

I don't know how it could have been avoided in this case because the coronavirus classification applies to a group of viruses that were discovered over 50 years ago.  The name comes from the fact that their protein projections look like a crown (corona) in microscopic images.



Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #192 on: February 07, 2020, 01:14:09 PM »
Chinese scientists claim the pangolin was the intermediary between bats and humans.  Other scientists say they haven't provided enough evidence.

AFP, 2/7/20: Pangolin Suspect #1 as direct source of coronavirus outbreak

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Chinese researchers investigating the animal origin of the deadly coronavirus outbreak in China said Friday the endangered pangolin may be the "missing link" between bats and humans, but other scientists said the search may not be over.

An earlier study—since discredited—pointed to snakes, and there remain numerous candidate species in the Wuhan wildlife market thought to be ground zero of the epidemic.

The SARS outbreak of 2002-3, involving a different strain of coronavirus, was transferred to humans by the civet, a small mammal prized in China for its flesh. ...

A recent genetic analysis showed that the strain of the virus currently spreading among humans was 96 percent identical to that found in bats.

But according to Arnaud Fontanet, from France's Pasteur Institute, the disease likely didn't jump straight from bats to humans. ...

After testing more than 1,000 samples from wild animals, scientists at the South China Agricultural University found the genome sequences of viruses in pangolins to be 99 percent identical to those on coronavirus patients, the official Xinhua news agency reported.

But other experts urged caution.

"This is not scientific evidence," said James Wood, head of the department of veterinary medicine at the University of Cambridge. "Investigations into animal reservoirs are extremely important, but results must be then be published for international scrutiny."

"Simply reporting detection of viral RNA with sequence similarity of 99+ percent is not sufficient," he added. ...

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #193 on: February 07, 2020, 02:02:48 PM »
WaPo:  Doctor’s death from coronavirus sparks a digital uprising, rattling China’s leaders

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Within hours of Li Wenliang’s death, millions of Chinese, homebound in the coronavirus crisis, tried to bypass censors to post the hashtag #WeWantFreedomOfSpeech in a remarkable but short-lived digital uprising. The users were memorializing Li, who is considered the first to sound the alarm about the deadly new virus when he leaked a Dec. 30 document from his hospital confirming a diagnosis. On Jan. 1, he was detained and silenced by Wuhan police, who accused him of spreading false rumors.

As the torrent of outrage built up overnight, the government in Beijing turned to a familiar tool — censorship — as it sought to prevent the already-staggering public health crisis from taking a volatile turn.

“He was an ordinary figure, but a symbol,” said Zhang Lifan, an independent historian in Beijing. “If it weren’t for the epidemic and nobody could leave their home, there would likely be demonstrations right now. Officials are absolutely concerned.”

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Sun Desheng, a 38-year-old truck driver and longtime dissident in Hubei province, said he was struck by the outpouring of emotion online about Li’s case, but he also didn't feel hopeful.

“With this epidemic, more people know the importance of freedom of speech,” Sun said by phone from Huanggang, adjacent to Wuhan. “It could gradually make people wake up. They see we’ve had decades of growth, our clothes are nicer, our sanitation is better. Then they ask: ‘Is our society truly better?’ ”

But Sun wasn’t convinced that outrage that only existed online could be a catalyst for dramatic change. Li’s case will be forgotten in a few days, he predicted.

“In China, people are not deep thinkers,” he said. “Soon they’ll go back to their celebrity and sports videos.”

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #194 on: February 07, 2020, 02:47:04 PM »
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“In China, people are not deep thinkers,” he said. “Soon they’ll go back to their celebrity and sports videos.”

Wow, I'm glad that only happens in China.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #195 on: February 07, 2020, 03:29:38 PM »
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“In China, people are not deep thinkers,” he said. “Soon they’ll go back to their celebrity and sports videos.”

bread and circuses.  Ancient way to keep people happy with their lives

Offline antsyaunt

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #196 on: February 07, 2020, 05:34:22 PM »
At this point we still don't know enough about the disease because it's caused by a novel virus we haven't seen cause disease in humans before, so we can't say with a high degree of certainty that it's "just a flu," although it may very well wind up having a similar death rate.  The closest relatives to this new coronavirus cause SARS and MERS, which appear to be much deadlier than this one but we won't know for certain until we have a better idea of how many people get a mild infection that doesn't make them sick enough to seek medical care. 

The conundrum that public health authorities face is how to best minimize the spread of an airborne infection like this without a good understanding (and won't for several months) of how the disease actually behaves...
Thank you very much, Freelancer.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #197 on: February 07, 2020, 10:26:00 PM »
NYT:  New Report on 138 Coronavirus Cases Reveals Disturbing Details

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The patients ranged in age from 22 to 92, with a median of 56 years, and were admitted to Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University from Jan. 1 to Jan 28. Many of them — 41 percent — were presumed to have caught the virus in the hospital, including 17 people who had been admitted for other illnesses, and 40 health care workers.

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About 10 percent of the patients did not initially have the usual symptoms, cough and fever, but instead had diarrhea and nausea first. Other uncommon symptoms included headache, dizziness and abdominal pain.

Another cause for concern was that some patients who at first appeared mildly or moderately ill then took a turn for the worse several days or even a week into their illness. The median time from their first symptoms to when they became short of breath was five days; to hospitalization, seven days; and to severe breathing trouble, eight days. Experts say that pattern means patients must be carefully monitored, and it is not safe to assume that someone who seems to be doing well early on is out of the woods.

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Over all, about 26 percent of the 138 patients needed intensive care; their median age was 66, compared with a median of 51 years for those who did not require intensive care.

For this series of patients, the death rate was 4.3 percent, which is higher than the estimates coming from other parts of China. The reason is not known, and the figures may change as more information is gathered.

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The data on the patients shows that the illness caused pneumonia and a systemic viral infection that set off a powerful inflammatory response in the body, Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious disease expert at Vanderbilt University, said in an interview.

“There are biochemical indicators that a number of the body’s organ systems are likely affected and you have an inflammatory response that is disrupting their function to some extent,” Dr. Schaffner said.

The lungs, heart, liver, kidneys and the systems that control blood clotting are all affected, Dr. Schaffner said, though it is not clear that the virus itself infects organs other than the lungs.

The inflammatory response is a hallmark of a serious viral disease, he said, adding that in recent years it has become apparent that heightened inflammation from diseases like the flu can persist for a month or so after the acute illness is gone, and can increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes in older people.


This article is based on a JAMA article published today. 


This data raises the concern that there may be some individuals who act as super-spreaders of the disease, which was a problem with SARS.  Also the 10% who don't present with typical respiratory symptoms also pose a risk of increased transmission in the hospital.  This isn't an issue for those of outside of China right now but if we start to see person to person transfer without a clear link to Asia it's going to get tricky. 

Some people appear to recover and then relapse, which means they will require more medical resources before they can be released home.  This is what happened with the young doctor whose tragic death is causing a backlash in China.  This is similar to what was seen in the 1918 flu, along with the massive inflammatory response.

The patients in Wuhan appear to be dying at a higher rate than other areas and it's not clear why.  Until we get some Western data I won't have a lot of faith in the numbers coming out of China. 

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #198 on: February 08, 2020, 12:41:13 AM »
WaPo:  Hundreds of miles from Hubei, additional 30 million Chinese are in coronavirus lockdown

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The tollgate was closed except for two lanes, where police in full protective gear were checking paperwork and temperatures. Only registered city residents were allowed in — and they were told they would not be allowed back out.

“For your health, please be cooperative during the checkup,” a sign said. The cars contained families with babies, grumpy business executives, young couples, all wearing masks.

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As the outbreak took hold, about 20,000 people were placed under “centralized quarantine” in Wenzhou hotels, where they are now joined by anyone who has had contact with an infected person or has been to Hubei in the previous two weeks.

Chen Bin, a lawyer, was sent to centralized quarantine after returning from his hometown in Hubei, along with his two children and his in-laws.

Now, they are all in different rooms in the same hotel and can communicate only through their phones. At the beginning, Chen said, he couldn’t sleep because he was worried that “even the air is filled with germs.”

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When police with SWAT-style gear including plastic shields showed up at the home of one Wenzhou woman who had close contact with a confirmed case, she refused to go into centralized quarantine.

“I don’t need it!” the woman, in pink pajamas, yelled at the police.

“It’s a must! It’s a government order!” the officer yelled back, a video of the encounter shows.

The woman stabbed at them with a knife to try to fend them off. They eventually subdued her and got her into quarantine.

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“I’m fine with staying at home, even for longer,” Lemon, who works in a government-related job and also did not want to be identified, said over the phone as her daughter giggled nearby. “She’s too small to understand what’s happening. She just knows that ‘the virus that wears a crown’ is terrible and we can’t leave home.”

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For now, people are hunkering down. Chen, the well-stocked resident from northern Wenzhou, expects to be at home for weeks: “I think there’s no hope for the lockdown finishing this month.”


This is absolutely unreal! 

Imagine this happening in the US?  How can this not have serious economic consequences that echo across the entire globe? 

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #199 on: February 08, 2020, 07:23:28 AM »
Makes me wonder how many Americans and Japanese were denied evacuation due to showing symptoms.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/08/asia/coronavirus-deaths-china-intl-hnk/index.html
Deadliest day for coronavirus as mainland China records 86 fatalities, while US announces first American death

Meanwhile, it emerged that a 60-year-old United States citizen had died from the virus at Jinyintian Hospital, in Wuhan, on February 6, according to the US Embassy in Beijing, marking the first confirmed death of a foreigner from the virus. Japan also reported its first death of suspected coronavirus in Wuhan on Saturday, according to an announcement from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Japanese man in his 60s died of pneumonia. The hospital that treated him was inconclusive on the cause of the pneumonia.

Offline antsyaunt

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #200 on: February 08, 2020, 08:02:16 AM »
I think there is already an economic effect.  I know someone who sells inexpensive women’s clothing items and has been unable to get her orders of leggings made in China.  She said that she saw that a delivery company was furloughing their workers for a couple of weeks. 

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #201 on: February 08, 2020, 08:50:53 AM »
I think there is already an economic effect.  I know someone who sells inexpensive women’s clothing items and has been unable to get her orders of leggings made in China.  She said that she saw that a delivery company was furloughing their workers for a couple of weeks.

Outbreak occured during the annual Spring Festival during which time nearly the entire workforce takes a week off.  The givernment then extended that another week in attempt to reduce virus spread.  So one week was already planned and one was unexpected.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #202 on: February 08, 2020, 10:26:11 AM »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #203 on: February 08, 2020, 11:56:39 AM »
Well, clear now that evacuation was the correct call.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7980883/amp/Video-shows-officials-protective-suits-dragging-suspected-coronavirus-carriers-homes.html
Coronavirus mass arrests: Eighty-six people die of virus in a DAY in China as Beijing starts rounding up sufferers and videos show hazmat suit-clad goons dragging people from their homes while death toll hits 724

Video showing a man suspected of having coronavirus desperately sprinting away from officials trying to put him in quarantine has emerged, as the communist regime starts rounding up suffers in Wuhan and taking them to camps.

The clip, believed to be taken in Changqing Garden, Wuhan, shows a group of officials approaching the man who who is backed up against a wall.


Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #204 on: February 08, 2020, 01:30:30 PM »
NYT:  Lawyer who reported on conditions in Wuhan is missing, friends say.

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A lawyer who had provided a rare glimpse into the dire conditions in Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, has gone missing, his friends say, expressing fear for his safety.

The lawyer, Chen Qiushi, who is based in Beijing, had been reporting from Wuhan since the city went into lockdown last month as the authorities scrambled to contain the virus.

In a series of video blogs and footage posted on Twitter and sometimes on YouTube, which are both blocked in mainland China, Mr. Chen documented the plight of patients and the shortage of hospital supplies, and he warned of cross-infection in Wuhan’s mass quarantine sites.

A friend who is currently managing Mr. Chen’s Twitter account said contact had been lost with him on Thursday.

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Xu Xiaodong, a prominent mixed martial arts practitioner in China, also said on Friday that he had lost contact with Mr. Chen, his friend. In a video message on Friday, Mr. Xu said that Mr. Chen’s parents had been told that their son had been quarantined because he had visited several hospitals and risked contracting the virus.

“I’m announcing this because I’m scared! Because the next one could be me,” Mr. Xu tweeted on Friday.


Quarantine as cover for liquidating political subversives.

Offline David in MN

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #205 on: February 08, 2020, 04:57:28 PM »
Quarantine as cover for liquidating political subversives.

That's very close to how I'm reading it as well. They have quarantined every dissident who spoke out of this virus. In my corporate days we'd call this a shift from a why-why to a who-who.

We hosted a party today and the parents were in lockstep... Why am I having Wuhan flu meetings at work when I have no control over it and it's a mild flu at best? Something here smells rotten.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #206 on: February 09, 2020, 08:36:44 AM »
That's very close to how I'm reading it as well. They have quarantined every dissident who spoke out of this virus. In my corporate days we'd call this a shift from a why-why to a who-who.

We hosted a party today and the parents were in lockstep... Why am I having Wuhan flu meetings at work when I have no control over it and it's a mild flu at best? Something here smells rotten.

makes perfect sense to how things always seem to work but that many people can't seem to fathom or see

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #207 on: February 09, 2020, 08:55:19 AM »
makes perfect sense to how things always seem to work but that many people can't seem to fathom or see

Classic Higgs' ratchet:

Higgs's thesis is so compelling that it has become the dominant paradigm for understanding the so-called ratchet effect: government grows during crisis and then retrenches afterwards, but not to the same level as before.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #208 on: February 09, 2020, 11:03:26 PM »
Classic Higgs' ratchet:

Higgs's thesis is so compelling that it has become the dominant paradigm for understanding the so-called ratchet effect: government grows during crisis and then retrenches afterwards, but not to the same level as before.


Government secrecy and secret programs since 911 have grown tremendously

Francis Boyle who wrote the antii bio weapons act to control bio weapons said that the act included jail time for creating bio weapons. When the scientists got together for the first conference on synthetic bio research, he said they all called for cancellation of the act and for removal of the jail time provision . That seems to show what their level of interest or concern is about bio weapons

He also said he talked about how anthrax sent to Congress in 2001 came from a US weapons lab, a known fact . As a result all mainstream media was told to never ever interview him again

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in China
« Reply #209 on: February 10, 2020, 02:03:26 AM »
The Guardian:  Coronavirus: UK declares outbreak 'serious threat' to health

Quote
Under the measures announced on Monday, the Department of Health said people with coronavirus could now be forcibly quarantined and would not be free to leave, and could be forcibly sent into isolation if they posed a threat to public health.

A spokesman said: “Our infection control procedures are world leading and the NHS is well prepared to deal with novel coronavirus.

“We are strengthening our regulations so we can keep individuals in supported isolation for their own safety and if public health professionals consider they may be at risk of spreading the virus to other members of the public.

“This measure will rightly make it easier for health professionals to help keep people safe across the country.”


Quarantine is contagious.