Author Topic: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China  (Read 55427 times)

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1170 on: June 03, 2020, 11:48:32 AM »
They've jumped the shark.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/couples-should-wear-face-masks-during-sex-new-study-insists/amp/
Couples should wear face masks during sex, new study insists

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1171 on: June 03, 2020, 01:56:03 PM »
Couples should wear face masks during sex, new study insists

Hmm.  Interesting.  I'll have to discuss this with my wife... 8)

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1172 on: June 03, 2020, 02:05:24 PM »
The original aricle is actually not too bad, though.  It's mostly aimed at health care providers, for when their patients inevitably ask questions about COVID-19 and sex.

5/8/20: Sexual Health in the SARS-CoV-2 Era

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1173 on: June 03, 2020, 04:23:01 PM »
NEJM:  A Randomized Trial of Hydroxychloroquine as Postexposure Prophylaxis for Covid-19

Quote

Background

Coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) occurs after exposure to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). For persons who are exposed, the standard of care is observation and quarantine. Whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent symptomatic infection after SARS-CoV-2 exposure is unknown.

Methods

We conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial across the United States and parts of Canada testing hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis. We enrolled adults who had household or occupational exposure to someone with confirmed Covid-19 at a distance of less than 6 ft for more than 10 minutes while wearing neither a face mask nor an eye shield (high-risk exposure) or while wearing a face mask but no eye shield (moderate-risk exposure). Within 4 days after exposure, we randomly assigned participants to receive either placebo or hydroxychloroquine (800 mg once, followed by 600 mg in 6 to 8 hours, then 600 mg daily for 4 additional days). The primary outcome was the incidence of either laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 or illness compatible with Covid-19 within 14 days.

Results

We enrolled 821 asymptomatic participants. Overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.

Conclusions

After high-risk or moderate-risk exposure to Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine did not prevent illness compatible with Covid-19 or confirmed infection when used as postexposure prophylaxis within 4 days after exposure. (Funded by David Baszucki and Jan Ellison Baszucki and others; ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04308668. opens in new tab.)


Well, it looks like hydroxychloroquine didn't kill anyone in this prospective study, but it probably didn't help prevent infection, either.  We'll have more clinical trials to compare this to in the near future.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1174 on: June 03, 2020, 05:10:33 PM »
NEJM:  A Randomized Trial of Hydroxychloroquine as Postexposure Prophylaxis for Covid-19

Well, it looks like hydroxychloroquine didn't kill anyone in this prospective study, but it probably didn't help prevent infection, either.  We'll have more clinical trials to compare this to in the near future.

A 17% reduction is big, just needs to be confirmed by higher sample.  Also, it is a faulty design to rely on reported symptoms with a plecebo controlled test, especially given asymptomatic nature of illness.  Everyone should have been lab tested. Also, they should have been antibody tested before entering the trial given they were in high risk of infection situations.  Still waiting for a fully controlled test.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1175 on: June 04, 2020, 03:48:28 PM »
Lancet, 6/2/20: Expression of concern: Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis

It has been retracted by 3 of its authors.

6/4/20: Retraction—Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis

Quote
After publication of our Lancet Article, several concerns were raised with respect to the veracity of the data and analyses conducted by Surgisphere Corporation and its founder and our co-author, Sapan Desai, in our publication. We launched an independent third-party peer review of Surgisphere with the consent of Sapan Desai to evaluate the origination of the database elements, to confirm the completeness of the database, and to replicate the analyses presented in the paper.

Our independent peer reviewers informed us that Surgisphere would not transfer the full dataset, client contracts, and the full ISO audit report to their servers for analysis as such transfer would violate client agreements and confidentiality requirements. As such, our reviewers were not able to conduct an independent and private peer review and therefore notified us of their withdrawal from the peer-review process.

We always aspire to perform our research in accordance with the highest ethical and professional guidelines. We can never forget the responsibility we have as researchers to scrupulously ensure that we rely on data sources that adhere to our high standards. Based on this development, we can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources. Due to this unfortunate development, the authors request that the paper be retracted.

We all entered this collaboration to contribute in good faith and at a time of great need during the COVID-19 pandemic. We deeply apologise to you, the editors, and the journal readership for any embarrassment or inconvenience that this may have caused.

Mandeep R Mehra, Frank Ruschitzka, Amit N Patel

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1176 on: June 04, 2020, 04:03:51 PM »
Sounds like they had the same hiring practices as Snopes. :sarcasm:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine
Surgisphere: governments and WHO changed Covid-19 policy based on suspect data from tiny US company

The Guardian’s investigation has found:

A search of publicly available material suggests several of Surgisphere’s employees have little or no data or scientific background. An employee listed as a science editor appears to be a science fiction author and fantasy artist. Another employee listed as a marketing executive is an adult model and events hostess.

The company’s LinkedIn page has fewer than 100 followers and last week listed just six employees. This was changed to three employees as of Wednesday.

While Surgisphere claims to run one of the largest and fastest hospital databases in the world, it has almost no online presence. Its Twitter handle has fewer than 170 followers, with no posts between October 2017 and March 2020.

Until Monday, the “get in touch” link on Surgisphere’s homepage redirected to a WordPress template for a cryptocurrency website, raising questions about how hospitals could easily contact the company to join its database.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1177 on: June 04, 2020, 05:59:52 PM »
Looks like Lancet screwed the pooch, again, a la Andrew Wakefield.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1178 on: June 05, 2020, 11:40:03 AM »
Finally some results from an actual randomized trial of hydroxychloroquine.  Unfortunately the data show no benefit:

Statement from the Chief Investigators of the Randomised Evaluation of COVid-19 thERapY (RECOVERY) Trial on hydroxychloroquine, 5 June 2020: No clinical benefit from use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised patients with COVID-19

Quote
...A total of 1542 patients were randomised to hydroxychloroquine and compared with 3132 patients randomised to usual care alone. There was no significant difference in the primary endpoint of 28-day mortality (25.7% hydroxychloroquine vs. 23.5% usual care; hazard ratio 1.11 [95% confidence interval 0.98-1.26]; p=0.10). There was also no evidence of beneficial effects on hospital stay duration or other outcomes.

These data convincingly rule out any meaningful mortality benefit of hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalised with COVID-19. Full results will be made available as soon as possible. ...

Offline iam4liberty

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Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1180 on: June 05, 2020, 03:56:36 PM »
Did they do propper treatment with zinc?

I don't know.  Is there data from a randomized trial including both hydroxychloroquine and zinc?  Or from a retrospective study?

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1181 on: June 05, 2020, 04:54:15 PM »
I don't know.  Is there data from a randomized trial including both hydroxychloroquine and zinc?  Or from a retrospective study?

First major retrospective study on adding Zinc to combined Hydroxychloroquin/Axithromycin therapy is in preprint.  Results confirm earlier, anecdotal case studies.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1
Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin plus zinc vs hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin alone: outcomes in hospitalized COVID-19 patients

In univariate analyses, zinc sulfate increased the frequency of patients being discharged home, and decreased the need for ventilation, admission to the ICU, and mortality or transfer to hospice for patients who were never admitted to the ICU. After adjusting for the time at which zinc sulfate was added to our protocol, an increased frequency of being discharged home (OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.12-2.09) reduction in mortality or transfer to hospice remained significant (OR 0.449, 95% CI 0.271-0.744). Conclusion: This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1182 on: June 05, 2020, 05:41:23 PM »
Well, that counts for something, but it only says adding zinc is better than not adding zinc.  There isn't any comparison to a control group who received none of the substances.  Without that info, we can't tell if maybe zinc is just protecting patients against the toxicity of hydroxychloroquine, or whether is even any improved outcome from the combination therapy.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1183 on: June 07, 2020, 01:45:56 AM »
Cumulative Cases/Deaths per Million Population

Nation/State         Cases/mil Deaths/mil
Belgium5,098827
UK ^x14,198596
Spain6,168580
Italy3,883560
Sweden ^x14,347461
France2,354447
US6,010339
Canada  2,520206
Germany2,217105
Turkey2,00855
Norway1,57444
Czechia89331
Greece28617
Japan 1357
S Korea2305
--- --- ---
New York20,449 1,563
New Jersey18,6521,367
Connecticut 12,2901,137
Massachusetts 14,9631,058
Rhode Island ^x1 14,576729
Washington, DC13,134684
Louisiana9,139630
Michigan6,407590
Pennsylvania 6,211469
Illinois 10,014463
Maryland 9,508453
Delaware 10,110401
Indiana 5,496340
Mississippi ^x15,724272
Colorado 4,836262
Minnesota ^x24,876209
New Hampshire ^x23,691208
Georgia 4,837205
Ohio 3,263203
Iowa 6,807190
New Mexico 4,197187
Virginia 5,787171
Washington3,215153
Arizona ^x33,497143
Nevada 3,071142
Alabama 4,088141
Missouri 2,435135
Florida 2,922125
California 3,263117
Wisconsin 3,533111
South Carolina 2,703106
Kentucky 2,526105
North Carolina ^x3 3,31098
Nebraska ^x18,03598
North Dakota ^x33,69594
Oklahoma ^x11,78488
Vermont 1,67688
Kansas 3,59380
South Dakota 6,06773
Maine 1,87873
Texas 2,58164
Tennessee 3,81861
Arkansas ^x23,01651
West Virginia ^x11,19247
Idaho 1,75746
Oregon 1,10539
Utah 3,68038
Wyoming 1,62229
Montana 506 17
Alaska 73314
Hawaii 47512


Global deaths are now at 402k and 112k of those are in the US, which is still averaging about 1k deaths per day. 

The UK has now surpassed Spain's per capita death rate, with only Belgium having worse numbers in Europe, and Sweden's rates are well above their Scandanavian neighbors.

Hard to find worse numbers than those in the Northeast US, though. 

Offline David in MN

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1184 on: June 07, 2020, 07:14:38 AM »
Aren't we kind of implicitly admitting it's over? Not to be glib but there is something mathematically wrong that Bill De Blasio will simultaneously slam Orthodox Jews for holding service and then boast his daughter was arrested in the riots. It's almost like he knows that young people really aren't at risk.

Also a little odded out by the cures. Basically if you're a republican hydroxyclorquin (in some blend with other stuff) seems to work but if you're a democrat it not only doesn't work but could kill you and you desperately need a ventilator. Given the numbers I hope my physician is a republican. But even that is pretty thin on data.

On a local level there is some frustration. If Iwant to get together with 100 of my friends and go to church that's a problem. If I want to get together with 500 of my friends and deface a church that's just fine. Much as Californians deal with the triple standard of restrictions on normal life but the homeless and rioters are exempt from all rules.

So we now get to ask our public health officials and politicians a very dark question. Do you honestly believe that millions of deaths are worth ending racism by protest or were your lockdowns complete BS day one? Or am I only afforded my 1st Amendment rights if I agree with you? If you're not scared of what will happen in the future, think it through again. We're doing everything possible to lose faith in the system.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1185 on: June 07, 2020, 09:53:11 AM »
Aren't we kind of implicitly admitting it's over?

Yep, it's over. People got whiplash from the media swing of "you are uncaring and killing grandma if you protest excessive stay-at-home orders or go to church services" to "you are uncaring and for killing African Americans if you don't join packed protests and riots".  Oh well, I guess the kids can still use their celebrity-endorsed virtue signaling $30 custom face masks when looting Target stores so they won't go to waste.

Coronavirus t-shirts are selling like crazy.  My favorite is "I survived the Wuhan Virus and all I got was this lousy made-in-China t-shirt".  Kind of sums it up.

On hydroxychloroquine, the medical groups are dropping their warnings about it causing death.  They know it was pure politics, not science, pushing that narrative.  So now they are having to hustle to save face.

The amount of cynicism towards the medical community is off the charts.  At the Floyd rallies here yesterday, there was a group of twenty-somethings dressed in scrubs and lab coats claiming to represent the medical community.  They were pushing for expansion of free abortion centers as the solution for  systemic racial discrimination in medicine.  Let's just say their tone deaf efforts weren't well received by many of the black community leaders. The reputation of doctors being neutral parties working for the best interests of their patients has been destroyed over the last five months

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1186 on: June 08, 2020, 06:35:43 AM »
Remember, New Zealand is just entering Winter.  This suggests a second significant wave in US in Autumn is highly unlikely.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN23F0B5
Ardern dances for joy after New Zealand eliminates coronavirus

Offline Mona

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1187 on: June 08, 2020, 01:29:45 PM »
Sadly I don't think New Zealand is representative, they had strickt restrictions on movement to the point where sending panes to return travelers home was pointess because they weren't allowed to travel to the airport. Their numbers were also so low that contact tracing actually works, which is dream conditions for many other countries.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1188 on: June 08, 2020, 02:20:26 PM »
So WHO is now saying that asymptomatic spread is rare.  The implication is that social distancing (and correspondingly, shutting down economies) was not necessary.  Instead, just needed to isolate symptomatic people.  Of course, WHO also said human to human transmission wasnt possible. Also very curious that this was released only after a certain political group was criticised for supporting crowded protests. Before that, it was all about throwing stay-at-home protesters in jail for "killing grandma".

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html
Asymptomatic spread of coronavirus is 'very rare,' WHO says

Preliminary evidence from the earliest outbreaks indicated that the virus could spread from person-to-person contact, even if the carrier didn't have symptoms. But WHO officials now say that while asymptomatic spread can occur, it is not the main way it's being transmitted.

"From the data we have, it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual," Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of WHO's emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, said at a news briefing from the United Nations agency's Geneva headquarters. "It's very rare."

Government responses should focus on detecting and isolating infected people with symptoms, and tracking anyone who might have come into contact with them, Van Kerkhove said.
...
If asymptomatic spread proves to not be a main driver of coronavirus transmission, the policy implications could be tremendous. A report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published on April 1 cited the "potential for presymptomatic transmission" as a reason for the importance of social distancing.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1189 on: June 09, 2020, 02:31:53 PM »
So WHO is now saying that asymptomatic spread is rare.  The implication is that social distancing (and correspondingly, shutting down economies) was not necessary. ...

Isn't this the same WHO that has been giving inconsistent and China-influenced advice for half a hear?  Why believe them now?

Anyway, today WHO is being even more confusing:

AP, 6/9/20: Confusion reigns as UN scrambles mask, virus spread advice

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1190 on: June 09, 2020, 03:26:02 PM »
Isn't this the same WHO that has been giving inconsistent and China-influenced advice for half a hear?  Why believe them now?

Anyway, today WHO is being even more confusing:

AP, 6/9/20: Confusion reigns as UN scrambles mask, virus spread advice

That's why I said: "Of course, WHO also said human to human transmission wasnt possible." 

Only a fool believes what WHO says.  Everything is about politics and nothing about science.  This was just to give cover to the Floyd rallys as so many of a left perspective were twisting their brains into pretzels trying to explain why it is ok to join the shoulder to shoulder crowds in a pandemic given all the criticisms of other protests.

Expect WHO to quickly backtrack once the funeral is over.  Once Trunp announces a restarting of his rallys, the cries of "grandma murderer" will start again.  So glad tax dollars are no longer going to WHO.  Much better that they go to legitimate science based groups.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1191 on: June 09, 2020, 04:23:02 PM »
That's why I said: "Of course, WHO also said human to human transmission wasnt possible." 

Only a fool believes what WHO says.  Everything is about politics and nothing about science.  This was just to give cover to the Floyd rallys as so many of a left perspective were twisting their brains into pretzels trying to explain why it is ok to join the shoulder to shoulder crowds in a pandemic given all the criticisms of other protests.

Expect WHO to quickly backtrack once the funeral is over.  Once Trump announces a restarting of his rallies, the cries of "grandma murderer" will start again.  So glad tax dollars are no longer going to WHO.  Much better that they go to legitimate science based groups.

EXACTLY

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1192 on: June 10, 2020, 06:32:43 AM »
Like clockwork.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/trump-says-f-k-it-starts-planning-new-mega-rallies/amp
Trump Says F--k It, Starts Planning New Mega-rallies


https://www.theweek.com/5things/919063/who-walks-back-claim-that-asymptomatic-coronavirus-spread-rare
WHO walks back claim that asymptomatic coronavirus spread is 'rare'

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1193 on: June 13, 2020, 04:50:38 PM »
The trend of the designer mask is over along with the pandamic celebrity virtue signaling.  Politicians, news anchors, and hollywood types can stop pretending they have been living in their basements.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/france-has-millions-of-unsold-face-masks-after-virus-crisis.amp
France has millions of unsold face masks after virus crisis




Offline Greekman

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1194 on: June 15, 2020, 12:32:27 AM »
very disturbing news for Sweden.....

it seems that administering "palative care" morphine doses may have been a standard practice in elders' homes
The news paper article is not easily accessible, since it requires a login, but here is the reddit link
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/gmwhyo/sweden_dn_geriatrics_professor_this_is_active/

one more source on it
https://world-today-news.com/incredible-suspicion-do-older-corona-patients-die-with-a-morphine-cocktail/
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 12:42:56 AM by Greekman »

Offline Greekman

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1195 on: June 16, 2020, 10:10:43 AM »
very interesting to watch.
On the practice i mentioned above and more on the Swedish practices
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk0TK_Syn9I

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1196 on: June 16, 2020, 11:40:56 AM »
very interesting to watch.
On the practice i mentioned above and more on the Swedish practices
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk0TK_Syn9I

History has shown that once a society starts down a path of euthanasia, it becomes the standard tool deployed against any population group the state views as inconvenient to their plans.  Shame, Sweden!

On different topic, tracers in NYC have been explicitely told not to ask about protest participation. Cant imagine a more anti-science position than this.

https://www.thecity.nyc/coronavirus/2020/6/14/21290963/nyc-covid-19-trackers-skipping-floyd-protest-questions-even-amid-fears-of-new-wave
NYC COVID-19 Contact Tracers Not Asking About George Floyd Protest Participation, Despite Fears of New Virus Wave

The hundreds of contact tracing workers hired by the city under de Blasio’s new “test and trace” campaign have been instructed not to ask anyone who’s tested positive for COVID-19 whether they recently attended a demonstration, City Hall confirmed to THE CITY.

“No person will be asked proactively if they attended a protest,” Avery Cohen, a spokesperson for de Blasio, wrote in an emailed response to questions by THE CITY.
...
There’s no direct effort to resolve a question both de Blasio and Gov. Andrew Cuomo have asked repeatedly since the demonstrations against police brutality erupted following the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police: Are the protests helping spread the virus?

“That’s the one variable in this equation that we’re not sure of: We don’t know what the effect of those protests are,” Cuomo said last week.



Offline Greekman

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1197 on: June 16, 2020, 12:10:56 PM »
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History has shown that once a society starts down a path of euthanasia, it becomes the standard tool deployed against any population group the state views as inconvenient to their plans.  Shame, Sweden!

yet Sweden was always known for its eugenics programs... have a look at wikipedia

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On different topic, tracers in NYC have been explicitely told not to ask about protest participation. Cant imagine a more anti-science position than this.

that DOES make some sense. Tracing is very complicated and tenuous....Trying to make to sort thru possible contacts ina demonstration is a witch hunt x1000000

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1198 on: June 16, 2020, 12:33:06 PM »
yet Sweden was always known for its eugenics programs... have a look at wikipedia

that DOES make some sense. Tracing is very complicated and tenuous....Trying to make to sort thru possible contacts ina demonstration is a witch hunt x1000000

Yes.  Sweden's history of this is widely known and condemned.

Regarding tracing, there are two types,  location and individuals.  That is, "Where have they been and who were they with?"  Knowing where someone has been is critical to isolating hotspots.  They ask about all other events such as participation in sports, church activities, and shopping.  They are just banned from asking about protests.  The surest way to not understand something is to not collect data on it.  That is the third step of the scientific method.  It isnt science if it is skipped.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 (a.k.a. 2019-nCoV) outbreak in China
« Reply #1199 on: June 16, 2020, 12:52:11 PM »

So many people seem to trust doctors and the health system, not me so much

I heard that death by medicine is very common or a leading cause of death, is it surprising that things of this sort are not more common ?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-doctors-revenge-murder-workplace-violence-20180802-story.html

Dr. Mark Hausknecht was cycling to work in Houston last month when he was gunned down by the man authorities believe is the son of a former patient who’d been nursing a grudge against the cardiologist for nearly 20 years.

Houston police on Wednesday identified Joseph James Pappas as the suspected gunman in the bicycle drive-by shooting that claimed the life of former President George H.W. Bush’s personal cardiologist. Hausknecht operated on Pappas’ mother in the 1997, but she died during surgery.