Author Topic: Virus accidentally released from lab ?  (Read 2241 times)

Offline surfivor

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Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« on: January 27, 2020, 05:09:47 PM »
There of been numerous articles suggesting the virus came from a bio weapons lab but that it was accidentally released due to improper handling’s. That seems very common with these weapon labs and there are many of them all over the place. I also heard that all of the initial cases of this flu where from people that were nowhere near this supposed seafood market.

That’s all I heard, I am traveling and have limited time on my phone to study it


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/did-china-steal-coronavirus-canada-and-weaponize-it

last year a mysterious shipment was caught smuggling Coronavirus from Canada. It was traced to Chinese agents working at a Canadian lab. Subsequent investigation by GreatGameIndia linked the agents to Chinese Biological Warfare Program from where the virus is suspected to have leaked causing the Wuhan Coronavirus outbreak.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 05:17:17 PM by surfivor »

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2020, 05:33:53 PM »

https://hnewswire.com/israeli-biological-warfare-expert-connects-chinas-wuhan-virus-to-covert-biological-warfare-laboratory/



Israeli Biological Warfare Expert Connects China’s Wuhan Virus to Covert Biological Warfare Laboratory

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2020, 05:42:56 PM »


This article says SARS escaped from a lab previously

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-scientist.com/news-analysis/sars-escaped-beijing-lab-twice-50137/amp

SARS escaped Beijing lab twice

Laboratory safety at the Chinese Institute of Virology under close scrutiny

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2020, 04:50:32 PM »
It doesn't need to come from a lab.  The Chinese population's close proximity to the animals they eat acts as a 24/7 laboratory for passing genetic material between species.  Eventually the right combination, with the ability to spread person to person, comes along and we're off to the races again.

Offline rustyknife

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2020, 07:29:32 PM »
Was thinking today about all the products we get from China, food and non-food items and how tough it would be to eliminate them......hurts my brain to think about it. :-\

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2020, 08:36:07 PM »
Bio weapons viruses are probably going to be much worse at making people sick and spreading than natural viruses. All of these labs that exist everywhere are a real problem that we shouldn’t have to deal with. They should not be allowed though they claim they need them for research

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2020, 09:16:12 AM »
WaPo:  Experts debunk fringe theory linking China’s coronavirus to weapons research

Quote
Elsa Kania, a fellow at the Center for a New American Security, said that while Chinese officials had expressed public interest in the potential weaponization of biotechnology, a coronavirus would not be a useful weapon.

“Hypothetically, a bioweapon would be designed to be highly targeted in its effects, whereas since its outbreak the coronavirus is already on track to become widespread in China and worldwide,” she said.

Vipin Narang, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, wrote in a message on Twitter that a good bioweapon “in theory has high lethality but low, not [high], communicability” and that spreading such ideas would be “incredibly irresponsible.”


Quote
Late Tuesday, Hu Xijin, editor of the nationalistic Global Times newspaper, wrote that a conspiracy theory had emerged in China that the United States was responsible for the outbreak.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2020, 10:13:08 AM »
 These experts of all sorts claim many things like what medicine to take or man made climate change but it's not always easy to discern for certain what the truth is and many of them clearly are biased based in their connections and profession. How can one tell for sure if something is a bioweapon or not or came from such a lab ?

 That article by the way you can't read without a wj subscription ..

I don't agree that a bioweapon would necessarily have to be targeted. It's also true that quarantine and martial law type situations would effect the general populace which could be the worst thing about it rather than the disease itself. Mega rich and powerful elites no doubt would not suffer from quarantine situations the way your average person would and it would give them excuses to destroy freedom etc

 A lab may also have various dangerous viruses that they have been modifying and then they get out by accident.

 I find the whole bio engineering / bio weapons programs to be pretty scary and a threat to the world. These facilities do not at all appear to be safe from accidental releases and you can find evidence of that happening, lax safety procedures and worse.

 I recall when contaminated vaccine material was found in eastern Europe years ago that had originated from the US but these things never get covered by the media. It was contaminated with something like live bird flu virus

================

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7922379/Chinas-lab-studying-SARS-Ebola-Wuhan-outbreaks-center.html

China built a lab to study SARS and Ebola in Wuhan - and US biosafety experts warned in 2017 that a virus could 'escape' the facility that's become key in fighting the outbreak

The Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory is the only lab in China designated for studying dangerous pathogens like SARS and Ebola

Ahead of its January 2018 opening, biosafety experts and scientists from the US expressed concerns that a virus could escape the lab

In 2004, a SARS virus 'leaked' from a lab in Beijing

Experts say the coronavirus that's infected more than 800 people mutated in animals and became capable of infecting humans at the Wuhan seafood market

But a 2017 article warned of the unpredictability of lab animals that scientists at the Wuhan lab intended to inject with viruses


Scientists warned in 2017 that a SARS-like virus could escape a lab set up that year in Wuhan, China, to study some of the most dangerous pathogens in the world.

Now, a SARS-like coronavirus has infected more than 800 there, spread to at least 10 other countries and killed 25 in Wuhan and nearby provinces.

China installed the first of a planned five to seven biolabs designed for maximum safety in Wuhan in 2017, for the purpose of studying the most high-risk pathogens, including the Ebola and the SARS viruses.

Tim Trevan, a Maryland biosafety consultant, told Nature that year, when the lab was on the cusp of opening, that he worried that China's culture could make the institute unsafe because 'structures where everyone feels free to speak up and openness of information are important.' 


« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 10:21:24 AM by surfivor »

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 11:11:10 AM »
These experts of all sorts claim many things like what medicine to take or man made climate change but it's not always easy to discern for certain what the truth is and many of them clearly are biased based in their connections and profession. How can one tell for sure if something is a bioweapon or not or came from such a lab ?

Unfortunately, absolute certainty is a luxury humans don’t have when planning for complex future potentialities, despite how hard we try.  Some outcomes are more certain than others and more often than not we’re stuck doing the best we can with what we have.  Anyone can be wrong, and some will be more predictably wrong than others, but certainty is more of a journey than a destination.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2020, 02:29:57 PM »
I figure, all other things being equal, the simplest explanation is most likely to be true.

In this case, all other things aren't equal: the new virus has already been genetically sequenced and shown to be almost identical to a bat coronavirus.  If that's true, it narrows down the possible culprits.

SIMPLE EXPLANATION: The virus passed from bats to humans, possibly via other animals, all of which are sold alive in a food market where cross-infection between animal and human species is easy.  By typical viral mutation, it developed the ability to pass from human to human, just as many other viruses have been shown to have done in the past.

LESS-SIMPLE EXPLANATION: The Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory was studying bat coronavirus (confirmed to be true by Dr Richard Ebright in the Washington Post article that Freelancer linked), and it escaped from the laboratory into human hosts.  Not impossible, but it adds a step of unnecessary complication, because the virus was already present in bat populations outside the lab.

COMPLICATED EXPLANATION: The virus was created by genetic engineering, and released accidentally or intentionally.  In order for this to be true, hundreds of researchers in many different countries have to be lying about the genetic sequence of the new virus and its similarity to the bat coronavirus.  And somehow they are covering this up, even though all the data is available to anyone who wants to check.

INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED EXPLANATION: The virus was genetically engineered as a bioweapon.  In addition to the above coverup, now we also have to understand why it might have been chosen as a bioweapon.  For war purposes, you want a bioweapon with high lethality but low contagion, because you only want to kill The Enemy and not wipe out your own side.  The new coronavirus is just the opposite, so it's a rotten choice.  Alternatively, an evil global conspiracy might have engineered it as a depopulation weapon.  Again, this coronavirus is a bad choice because it's not nearly lethal enough.  So both bioweapon explanations require that the creators of the virus are brilliant enough to create it, but too stupid to pick the right virus.

ANOTHER INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED EXPLANATION: The virus was created in order to cause maximum disruption, and allow governments and elites to institute draconian controls and be a boot stomping on a human face forever.  But again, why create a virus that's no worse than a super-bad flu?  All you have to do is wait for the next terrible respiratory virus pandemic to arise naturally, like seems to happen every few years, and then you can do all the face-stomping you want and never risk taking the blame.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2020, 03:50:55 PM »
The first two seem equally simple.  If there is a virus affecting bats which is being examined by scientists, it would just take a moment of distraction for one to become exposed and become patient zero.  in fact, such an accident is bound to happen.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2020, 04:21:03 PM »
I am skeptical that such highly contagious deadly viruses are very common in nature. Even the Spanish flu is difficult to ascertain exactly because there are reports that besides there being a virus overseas, many of the deaths came from vaccinated soldiers at bases and some claim the vaccines used at the time where deadly or they had too many injections. Just look at gulf war syndrome which appears to be a criminal cover up of the highest order as to what is the real cause. The best explanation for gulf war syndrome appears to be vaccines given to soldiers of the type that civilians don’t get

At any rate reliable stats and info on Spainish flu are lacking because it was so long ago and I found cases of researchers admitting that and the entire idea of a deadly flu pandemic seems to originate from that

They also never prove these things. There doesn’t seem to be a way to prove if a virus has been genetically modified that I am aware of.

It’s all just opinions by experts similar to man made climate change

They never proved how AIDS came from men hunting monkeys for food nor did they prove it didn’t come from monkey kidneys used in polio vaccines. They issued a claim but didn’t adequately explain or prove how they arrived at that. After that they no longer bother to study how it transmitted to humans. There attitude is it doesn’t matter

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2020, 04:31:04 PM »
Measles is super-highly contagious.  And it’s as natural as it gets and older than dirt.

Same with smallpox.

Nature’s a bitch.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 04:36:51 PM by FreeLancer »

Offline David in MN

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2020, 04:43:30 PM »
I heard it was a CIA sting operation to neutralize the second hand clothing market to regain control from China. We're back in the schmatta business baby!

Seriously it could have come from a myriad of sources but it's far more important the environment in which it grows. Think this way: Suppose a horrible virus leaks in northern Montana. Not enough to keep it going. Wildly different from early 1900s tenements in NYC.

Plague and pestilence has been around since the dawn of time. We had "leper colonies" and African tribes would block the road to ward off travelers during outbreaks. We don't really know where the bubonic plague came from (likely not a secret black ops program) and we don't really know why it burned out. We do know that proximity to rats was a problem.

People like to go to the "patient zero" and there is value there but for me it's more the Petrie dish than the disease.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2020, 05:06:23 PM »
It’s all just opinions by experts

A.K.A., science as explained by expert scientists who seem to know a whole lot about the topic.

But no, let's get our science from Alex Jones, who is an expert in all fields and completely unbiased, and it's just a coincidence that he's selling colloidal silver and also pushing its use against coronavirus.  Thank God he's not controlled by Big Pharma!

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2020, 05:07:47 PM »
I should have qualified it with deadly flu viruses which don’t seem common and can be hyped when in many cases it’s old people and people with weakened immune systems

Other than that, the causes of many diseases are often exaggerated to pathologens and not to poor sanitation, nutrition etc
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 05:16:31 PM by surfivor »

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2020, 05:14:05 PM »

I don’t rely on alex jones exclusively. I have listened to numerous other sources and tend to cross check what jones says with various other sources. I tend to always check other sources with what he says.. How to identify fake news has never been adequately agreed on or established and is too subjective

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2020, 05:45:44 PM »
It is wise to investigate all options.  Understanding origin will be helpful.

Lab idea is showing up in MSM now.

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/24/virus-hit-wuhan-has-two-laboratories-linked-chines/
Virus-hit Wuhan has two laboratories linked to Chinese bio-warfare program
Virology institute there has China's only secure lab for studying deadly viruse



Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2020, 06:03:50 PM »
You think Washington Times would appreciate the MSM label?

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2020, 06:52:12 PM »
You think Washington Times would appreciate the MSM label?

One of largest newspapers in DC.  And daily mail is third largest paper in UK.

What is your definition?

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2020, 08:04:33 PM »
You think Washington Times would appreciate the MSM label?

Founded by Sun Myung Moon, still owned by the Unification Church, subsidized by Moon and/or his church to the tune of $1.7-$2 billion over its first 20 years, finally had its first profitable month ever in 2015.  It wouldn't exist except that Moon wanted a US mouthpiece for his political views and had accumulated enough billions to pay for it.

In contrast, the Washington Post is owned by a different billionaire.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2020, 08:05:22 PM »
One of largest newspapers in DC.  And daily mail is third largest paper in UK.

What is your definition?


It's not really up to me.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/about/

Quote
Established in 1982, The Washington Times has been a trusted counterweight to the mainstream media. Presidents, powerbrokers and world leaders rely on our coverage, but The Washington Times was founded to represent readers outside the Capital Beltway by promoting American values – freedom, faith and family – and to challenge a media establishment catering to coastal elites.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2020, 08:34:53 PM »
As I said, I should have clarified my statement with flu viruses but even considering other viruses; leprosy seems to spread much slower and is easily contained if so desired. Polio is a modern phenomenon and never had pandemics in ancient times or even 300 years ago or so. There are serious questions that polio is connected to DDT and other toxins. I don’t have the impression that measles could cause a Pandemic the way flu is hyped to do.

The only virus I know for sure that has such a reputation that I can think of seems to be smallpox but for some reason smallpox is no longer promoted as much of a threat but only flu. There is really only one case of flu pandemic in history however which is Spanish flu of 1918 but I have questions about that

Several other diseases seem linked to insects such as Lyme disease, malaria etc and can be avoided by avoiding certain areas in the tropics or avoiding tall grass etc but these are not contagious between people
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 08:46:53 PM by surfivor »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2020, 08:53:33 PM »
https://www.livescience.com/amp/new-coronavirus-origin-bats.html
New coronavirus may have started in bats. But how did it hop to humans?

They found that all 10 of the genome sequences were extremely similar — they shared more than 99.98% of the same genetic sequence, the authors said. This suggests the virus made its "jump" to humans very recently, because if that jump had happened long ago, the virus sequences would have differed more, given the fast rate at which viruses tend to mutate and evolve.

"It is striking that the sequences of 2019-nCoV described here from different patients were almost identical," study co-lead author Weifeng Shi, a professor at the Key Laboratory of Etiology and Epidemiology of Emerging Infectious Diseases in Universities of Shandong Province, affiliated with Shandong First Medical University, said in a statement. "This finding suggests that 2019-nCoV originated from one source within a very short period and was detected relatively rapidly."
...
Based on these results, the authors said the 2019-nCoV likely originated in bats. However, no bats were sold at the Huanan seafood market, which suggests that another yet-to-be-identified animal acted as a steppingstone of sorts to transmit the virus to humans.


So, based on best science it originated in bats.  And it either went from bats directly to humans (one hop - simplest explanation) or went through one or more intermediate animals (two+ hops - second simplest explanation).   Given no bats at market, it seems reasonable to investigate both these options.

Please also remember this comes on heels of a rogue scientist breaking all ethics and laws to make designer babies in China.  So it definitely doesnt make sense to assume impossibility of lab source.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2020, 08:59:55 PM »
All options must be investigated.

https://www.popsci.com/story/health/wuhan-coronavirus-china-wet-market-wild-animal/
We’re still not sure where the Wuhan coronavirus really came from
China’s wet markets don’t tell the whole story.


As a new coronavirus spreads across the globe, scientists are working to understand where it came from. In the earliest days of the outbreak, the prevailing theory held that the virus came from a Chinese “wet market.” These marketplaces sell living animals along with meat and produce, and often feature creatures caught in the wild. But experts now say the Wuhan coronavirus’s true origin story is likely more complex, and are encouraging a broader search for the disease’s source.
...
Understanding a disease’s origin story is important, both because it helps epidemiologists track and prevent its spread and because a virus’s genetic makeup can inform the design of vaccines and treatments. The details of a contagion’s provenance can also help policymakers figure out how to prevent future outbreaks.

But researchers are a long way from knowing where 2019-nCoV really came from, said Nancy Messonier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, at a press briefing on Monday.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2020, 09:09:55 PM »
I don’t have the impression that measles could cause a Pandemic the way flu is hyped to do.

Because there's a highly effective vaccine for measles.


The only virus I know for sure that has such a reputation that I can think of seems to be smallpox but for some reason smallpox is no longer promoted as much of a threat but only flu.

Smallpox was eradicated after a massive global vaccination effort. 

We almost got there with measles.

Offline surfivor

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2020, 09:57:04 PM »
Because there's a highly effective vaccine for measles.


Smallpox was eradicated after a massive global vaccination effort. 

We almost got there with measles.

It appears that fatality rates for most diseases where already dropping sharply before the vaccines came out. This is attributed to improved sanitation and health at that time. I am less sure about only smallpox but I had researched all that years ago. I seemed to recall that spirko along with numerous others agree with that analysis.

Other than that some old or sickly people are more susceptible to various diseases and they use that as justification for giving everyone else shots but that policy may be greatly flawed as well

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2020, 10:01:27 PM »
Example from past, considered one of the worst lab accidents in history:

https://www.realclearscience.com/lists/worst_lab_accidents_in_history/marburg_virus_outbreak.html
The Marburg Virus Outbreak

In 1967, 31 workers at a laboratory in Marburg, Germany began suffering from an array of horrifying symptoms: fever, diarrhea, vomiting, and massive bleeding from a variety of internal organs. Seven of the workers would eventually succumb to their illnesses.

After an extensive investigation, scientists identified the source of the outbreak, a pair of grivet monkeys imported from Uganda for polio research. The primates were carrying a shocking, never-before-seen virus, which later was named Marburg for the city in which it was discovered. Researchers described it in Science:
...
Since its discovery, Marburg has remained mysterious, surfacing, killing, then disappearing. It spreads by contact with bodily fluids like blood, urine, or saliva. To date, the worst outbreak occurred in Angola in 2005. 252 cases were reported, 90% of which resulted in fatalities.

There is still no known cure.


And it continues to this day:

https://www.health24.com/Medical/infectious-diseases/News/deadly-marburg-virus-pops-up-in-west-africa-for-the-first-time-shouldnt-we-be-taking-more-notice-20200128-2
Deadly Marburg virus pops up in West-Africa for the first time - shouldn't we be taking more notice?
The new coronavirus, recently discovered in China, is dominating the headlines. But at the same time, the deadly Marburg virus was identified in fruit bats in Sierra Leone. Shouldn't the world be just as worried about that?


The world is on tenterhooks as we keep an eye on the new strain of the coronavirus from China that is rapidly spreading to other countries. But what about other deadly diseases that could potentially cause mayhem all over the world?

The Marburg virus was first identified in 1967, when two large outbreaks occurred in Marburg and Frankfurt in Germany, and in Belgrade, Serbia. Scientists identified the origin of the disease as the African green monkey used in laboratories, imported from Uganda, according to the World Health Organization.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2020, 10:12:14 PM »
I'm not ready to say the virus didn't escape from the lab.  I don't think we have enough info yet, and I'm troubled because it sounds like the local authorities were trying to cover up the story until Beijing stepped in and decreed Thou Shalt Be Transparent.  I can think of a few different ways it might have happened, all made more likely if some of the lab staff believed it was only a bat virus that couldn't infect humans.

So maybe it happened in the lab, or maybe in the field when a technician was collecting sick bats, or maybe it was some other random non-lab guy entirely, or his farm animals, or something else.  We may never find out.  In any case, between the lab, the market, and the huge local population, the area was a great incubator for crossbreeding new virus strains.

But I'm not willing to say it was a human-created virus at this point, because that's only supported by speculation and not by any evidence that I've seen.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Virus accidentally released from lab ?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2020, 10:28:00 PM »
I'm not ready to say the virus didn't escape from the lab.  I don't think we have enough info yet, and I'm troubled because it sounds like the local authorities were trying to cover up the story until Beijing stepped in and decreed Thou Shalt Be Transparent.  I can think of a few different ways it might have happened, all made more likely if some of the lab staff believed it was only a bat virus that couldn't infect humans.

So maybe it happened in the lab, or maybe in the field when a technician was collecting sick bats, or maybe it was some other random non-lab guy entirely, or his farm animals, or something else.  We may never find out.  In any case, between the lab, the market, and the huge local population, the area was a great incubator for crossbreeding new virus strains.

But I'm not willing to say it was a human-created virus at this point, because that's only supported by speculation and not by any evidence that I've seen.

This is a good take.

One of my biggest concerns has been human animal hybrid research.  A large portion of research tiday is into creating animal surrogates for humans that can be used for medical experimentation.  This theoretically greatly increases the chance of cross-species jump of diseases.  China is the most aggressive of all countries in this technology.