Author Topic: 223 or 5.56 better choice for self defense in house  (Read 28266 times)

Offline sledgehammer

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Re: 223 or 5.56 better choice for self defense in house
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2010, 08:00:10 AM »
Kinetic energy is velocity squared time mass (or something very similar). Photons move at the speed of light! We all need to be very careful!! ;) Crap. Now the liberals are going to ban flashlights.

Thanks for the detailed post. Without the details, readers have to overlay your tactics on their plan. And that bastard child is ugly.

I like your use of your dogs. I don't know how I feel about it for myself. I guess I'm concerned about them getting in the way. But if they're so unconcerned about the situation that they're at my feet or trying to lick my face, there probably isn't anyone there that shouldn't be.

I really thought you used a long gun...

Your plan (and previous comments) make more sense seeing the pace at which you clear your house. It looks like you take a measured, methodical approach. My home's layout doesn't support that strategy. In fact, that could lead to a very dangerous version of a Benny Hill skit. The open floor plan and my training (Infantry) pushes me in a different direction. My tactics are a bit faster and thus I need to be able to safely shoot a person right in the face with photons. Don't worry. Despite my infantry training, I do not clear my house with flash-bangs and hand grenades.

Thanks for the response. It clearly took a bit of your time. Your previous comments make more sense to me now.

Sledgehammer

Offline Orionblade

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Re: 223 or 5.56 better choice for self defense in house
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2010, 11:21:30 AM »
Your plan (and previous comments) make more sense seeing the pace at which you clear your house. It looks like you take a measured, methodical approach. My home's layout doesn't support that strategy. In fact, that could lead to a very dangerous version of a Benny Hill skit. The open floor plan and my training (Infantry) pushes me in a different direction. My tactics are a bit faster and thus I need to be able to safely shoot a person right in the face with photons. Don't worry. Despite my infantry training, I do not clear my house with flash-bangs and hand grenades.

Thanks for the response. It clearly took a bit of your time. Your previous comments make more sense to me now.

Sledgehammer

First, no problem, and hooray, that was the object. I walked into my room and promptly passed out. I think I permanently dented the pillow with my forehead. I was totally expecting to come in here and re-read my post, only to find it was written in Klingon.

Second - no flash bangs and hand grenades? What kind of a prepper ARE you?  ;D

Third - in all honesty, I think a smoke grenade generator or two is a handy thing to have, but only if you've got a respirator to put on before deploying them in enclosed spaces. *cough cough*

Sorry you have a contentious floor plan. I'm blessed in that as I stand in my bedroom doorway, I can either turn around and look out one of four windows onto the north, east, and west sides of my house, or look down the hallway and see two bathrooms on my right (west) and one bedroom door dead ahead. A few steps forward, and I can see the other two guest bedrooms. Quick trip down the stairs and I look left and right, and I've just cleared 50% of my house, since I can see all the way into my kitchen from the bottom of the stairs. The most important thing is being able to hear the whole house, which I can do from the top of the stairs. Curved plaster is AWESOME at grabbing and redirecting sound.

I had a thought for you, though, and I thought I posted this in a reply a while ago, but I can't seem to find it. I think the internetz ate it.

Anyhow, have you thought about putting something like one or two packages of laminate or bamboo flooring down as an interior landing? If you've got carpet that kills footsteps, that stuff would produce a definite and detectable "click" sound when an intruder stepped on it. At 20-ish dollars a package, it's an expensive door mat, but you could also do a japanese squeaker with it. Little, gradual, changes like that might give you a bit of a better tactical advantage over someone lumbering through your house in the dark.

Just a thought ;-)


Offline CR Williams

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Re: 223 or 5.56 better choice for self defense in house
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2010, 01:11:52 PM »
Sledgehammer - I quoted this, but IE is being weird, so here goes:

"And this may be the misunderstanding, crw... to me, pointing a weapon at someone is aiming your weapon at someone. They're the same to me. So, if you're pointing your long gun at someone so that the flashlight let's you identify them, you're aiming your gun at them! And I don't see how you can quickly identify someone without hitting them with a flashlight. "

I totally agree that pointing your schnitzel at someone is tantamount to firing it, which is why a separate light is needed if you intend to use a flashlight for identification of anything other than something you're already pretty sure you'll need to, or be willing to shoot.

As for the last part - you don't see how you can quickly ID someone without hitting them with the flashlight.

First off, I hope you don't run around hitting people with flashlights. Or anything else for that matter. It's not polite, and it could leave a bruise! Only hit them with the PHOTONS!!!

You don't hit people with your flashlight??? ???

Where's the fun if you don't do that??? :D

To address the points seriously:

I don't have anyone else in my house to identify, so I don't have to worry as much about ID as some of you do. If you're not a cat, you're a bad guy. ID problem solved...

Now, about flashlights...

Frankly, I'm not big on flashlights on guns, including long guns. Where a light will be needed, there is a way even with a long-gun to have a hand-light which you can angle off so as not to point the barrel of the weapon at someone. The angle is not large, and the close-in hold on the long-gun I use puts it across my chest with the forestock in the bend of the arm. I can fire that way if necessary. The light would be in my hand and has a lanyard. If the target is really close, I turn the body the very few degrees needed and use the body index to aim the initial shots; I'm usually going to be taking a step back as I do this which facilitates the index. (It would be easier to show than it is to tell.) Across the room or taking the doorway or corner, I drop the light and straighten the arm forcefully, which 'pops' the rifle up an inch or three to the normal shoulder mount as the forward hand moves to the foregrip hold. It's faster than you might think doing that.

All that is not as complicated as it may read like it is.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 01:14:13 PM by crw »

Offline ZenGunFighter

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Re: 223 or 5.56 better choice for self defense in house
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2010, 01:53:19 PM »
This information is not new. I took a Tac Carbine Instructors class by Bill Jeans of (at the time) Gunsite back in 1994.
16 years ago.
He provided reseach that showed that .223/5.56 penetrated less in typical building material than the common duty pistol calibers. The 55gr FMJ would break at the cannelure into two small (low mass) projectiles. The hollow point rounds similarly broke up early on.

Having said that, If I'm going to be moving around inside a building, it will be a pistol in my hand, not a long gun. manuevering around the tight spaces found in homes with a long gun ain't easy.

Give it a try. Especially if you have to open/close any doors. If you don't want to lead with the muzzle, you have to have it severly depressed, which means you are not keeping the muzzle between you and the potential threat areas. Really reduces your ability to respond quickly.

This is for the average citizen. If you are part of a well trained team, ready to kick in doors, then things are different.

Offline CR Williams

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Re: 223 or 5.56 better choice for self defense in house
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2010, 10:45:30 AM »
Having said that, If I'm going to be moving around inside a building, it will be a pistol in my hand, not a long gun. Maneuvering around the tight spaces found in homes with a long gun ain't easy.

This part is true. Moving through home-sized halls and rooms with a legal-length carbine or shotgun is not just an adventure, it's a job.

Give it a try. Especially if you have to open/close any doors. If you don't want to lead with the muzzle, you have to have it severely depressed, which means you are not keeping the muzzle between you and the potential threat areas. Really reduces your ability to respond quickly.


This part is a bit off. There are a couple of holds that can bring the muzzle in (pause for thought experiment, as I'm not where I can double-check this physically) closer than you might think and keep it bearing on a threat area. One of the holds, which I touched on in my prior post, can allow you to open doors with the rifle/shotgun still bearing. It's a little awkward, but practice will make it less awkward. It's not my preferred solution, but if I'm sweeping with a long-gun, it's what I'll do.