Author Topic: Balancing accessibility & safety  (Read 7610 times)

Offline otowner98

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Balancing accessibility & safety
« on: August 15, 2009, 09:24:06 PM »
So I'm listening to Jack talk about carrying when you come home, and having your sidearm available at all times.  I live in Illinois, so carrying doesn't apply to me, period, but I am concerned with having my Hi-Power available when I am home.  I have a 15 month old, who naturally gets into everything, so the wife wants ALL guns in the basement, in the safe.  Any suggestions?  I've looked at some "night stand" safes with the finger-push combination, but that still seems clunky, especially at 3am.  I'm really at a loss for how to keep accidents from happening, and still having access to a weapon.

Goatdog62

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2009, 09:50:28 PM »
I don't do this. My guns are always loaded, but I think something like a Glock kept empty with the magazine close by (same drawer as Glock maybe) would be very quick to bring into battery.  A two second delay when sleepy maybe.

At 15 months old, your child won't be have the hand strength to load that thing for some time, even if she knew in theory how to load it. This is only a short-term solution of course.

The youngest of my 6 kids is 35 months. Both of our nightstands have hidden compartments that we can get to and open in no time at all. Other guns kept at other places in the house are similar in difficulty for her to get to. For example, there is a recess on the top of the china cabinet that conceals a weapon nicely. I can reach it, a child would need a six foot ladder.

None of these will satisfy a spouse who isn't informed, I'd guess. The basement is too far away IMHO to be very useful.


Offline CarlD

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 10:18:27 PM »
The night stand safe I had looked like a quality wooden box radio about 4 high by 12 deep by 16 wide.  I t was a working radio / alarm clock.  Buttons on the top granted access by pressing the correct combination and the lid popped open.  It did not look like a gun safe.  It looked like a radio alarm clock.    I kept my pistol, a  Beretta 9mm Model 92FS with the magazine out of the pistol inside it. I also kept a spare set of   glasses,  a flashlight and a spare magzine in it.  It was easy to open at night in the dark by feel once you got used to it. The kids did not even know it was a gun safe. I made sure not to ever open it up when the kids were around.  I never had a problem and it allowed me to have a weapon on the night stand next to the bed that my children could not access. It plugged in the wall but had a battery backup in case the electricity went out.  I would recommend you look at something along those lines.  I can't remember the manufactures name but a google search would probably turn up something.






  

Offline otowner98

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 08:56:14 PM »
Thanks for the advice.  I'm going to try to find one of those disguised safes.  That would be a very nice solution. 

Offline cartpusher

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 09:34:12 PM »
the disguised safe sounds awesome.   


 For example, there is a recess on the top of the china cabinet that conceals a weapon nicely. I can reach it, a child would need a six foot ladder.


I go with the loaded magazine out of the gun for now for safety with the two kids, 1 and 3.  Not exactly sure what i will do as they get older.  But as far as the top of the China cabinet being out of reach... let me just say, when I was 7 or 8, my sister and i climbed up a dining room chair, and stood on top of the fridge so that we could get to an antique dutch oven that was above the cabinets, while we were trying to guess where Christmas gifts might be hidden.  So i don't consider any unlocked space in the house, inaccessible.   What did i find you ask?  GI Joe Snow Cat;

http://gijoe.wikia.com/wiki/Snow_Cat

Goatdog62

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 10:34:29 PM »
the disguised safe sounds awesome.   

I go with the loaded magazine out of the gun for now for safety with the two kids, 1 and 3.  Not exactly sure what i will do as they get older.  But as far as the top of the China cabinet being out of reach... let me just say, when I was 7 or 8, my sister and i climbed up a dining room chair, and stood on top of the fridge so that we could get to an antique dutch oven that was above the cabinets, while we were trying to guess where Christmas gifts might be hidden.  So i don't consider any unlocked space in the house, inaccessible.   What did i find you ask?  GI Joe Snow Cat;

http://gijoe.wikia.com/wiki/Snow_Cat


I am really sure my two year old can't get up there without divine intervention. Nor could she rack the slide if she did. But I understand where your at in your comfort level with this subject. I saw a pretty nice looking old fashioned clock that had a built in compartment the other day. I'll try an find it for you.

Offline mxitman

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 07:16:11 PM »
I don't have any kids but I did want to keep my gun locked (secure from theft also) when it isn't on me. I carry when at home most of the time other than when I'm in bed. I bought one of the Gunvaults safe's I drilled out the small holes and screws that came with it and used 3" lag bolts to securely mount to my floor. It's fast to access and is pretty secure, you could break into it but it would require a hammer and a pry bar, keeps kids and friends from access. I'm not sure how long it would hold up to a burglar but I don't keep it in there all the time. They even have one that uses your fingerprint for access, I have the larger version, holds my full size XD-45 & spare mag and flashlight, has plenty of room left too. I did add my own $5 magnetic door light to it.


http://www.gunvault.com/

Offline mckeyes

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 12:41:16 PM »
my wife is insistent on a gun safe/locks. I do partly agree as we have a 14 month who is just now starting to open drawers. She can't rack a slide but I don't want her being able to get my gun at all. I've been looking at a safe for those times when it isn't practical for me to carry while at home, and when she gets older and has friends over. Most of the time my gun is either on me or in the drawer by the bed.
I do believe that if you can't readily access it, it's pointless to have.

Offline otowner98

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 08:13:36 PM »
Those of you who don't live in Illinois (or Wisconsin) and can carry legally really don't know how good you have it.

Goatdog62

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 08:26:58 PM »
There is also the option of opening the gun safe when you go to bed. That way you aren't fumbling with a lock, under stress in the dark, if someone is breaking in after you've hit the sack. Then lock it up when you leave the room in the morning or take your gun with you. That only solves part of the issue but it makes you "weapon ready" much quicker for those times.

Offline otowner98

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2009, 06:39:39 AM »
Thanks, Goatdog.  That is a really good idea.  I could also get away with a much simpler (and cheaper) no-frills, lock-box in place of some fast opening biometric drawer safe.  Awesome!

Offline DeltaOscarCharlie

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2009, 06:55:24 AM »
The 'GUNVAULT Mini Standard' GV1000 is a quality product and one of the best buys around and, with the finger slots on top, the standard can be easily opened in the dark.

You can buy these online for under $80.  

ALSO, Look at the TRIGGER VAULT in the video


Gunvault OverviewHigh
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 06:57:47 AM by DeltaOscarCharlie »

Offline Serellan

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2009, 12:45:20 PM »
They make biometric safes as well.  That is what I plan to move to when my daughter is older.  My daughter is 3 and right now my loaded firearms stay in a location that is not accessible to her (concealed but not locked).  They are expensive, but the combination of security and ease of access feels worth it to me.

http://biometricgunsafe.net/

Offline otowner98

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2009, 10:22:49 PM »
I ended up picking up a slim little safe, with a removable cash drawer, that just fits into the drawer.  It isn't fancy, but more that sufficient.  Thanks again for all the good ideas.

Offline Stein

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2009, 01:14:14 PM »
I second the GunVault, I have one beside my bed.  In addition to being quick to open, it is a handy place to store my other handgun when I am out carrying.

I rarely carry while at home unless I am going or returning from somewhere although I can see the argument for it.

Goatdog62

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2009, 05:57:38 PM »
otowner, glad that worked out for you. Very responsible.

Stein, I don't carry at home either, unless I just haven't taken it off yet. There is no way for me to comfortably carry with as little as I wear when in the castle. I don't fault anyone that does but I made sure my home was not an easy place to gain entry to. The "tip of the spear" people I work with don't either. You can't "kick" my door in and I'll be able to reach my strategically placed HD arsenal should you try. If they breach my door with explosives, I doubt any gun could help me anyway.

Offline Stein

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2010, 09:39:12 AM »
I have a 2 year old boy - he can and will get his hands on anything not bolted to the ground.

I bought a Gunvault - the one with the buttons you program.  I practiced a couple of times and also use it when I am not carrying the gun.

So, the wind was blowing one night and I hadn't had the chance to fix the front door.  The latch caught the bolt a little loose which allowed the door to wiggle slightly when shut and locked.  Couple this with the fact that I installed the alarm magnet a bit off center....

At 3 am the alarm goes off and I awaken to the panel yelling "Alarm, front door."  Not exactly what you want to wake up to.  The next thing I knew, I was standing at the top of the stairs with the gun pointing at the door. I am not sure how I got there, but my wife mentioned that I was at the stairs before she woke up. 

My point is that if you use the safe a few times it gets stored into muscle memory and you don't need much brainpower to operate it.  Also, you can get it out quickly.  At the end of the day, the risk of my son messing with the gun is 100 x more dangerous than the probability of me needing it.  So, for me it works great but that is my situation.

Offline Serellan

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2010, 02:34:07 PM »
I have a 2 year old boy - he can and will get his hands on anything not bolted to the ground.

I bought a Gunvault - the one with the buttons you program.  I practiced a couple of times and also use it when I am not carrying the gun.

So, the wind was blowing one night and I hadn't had the chance to fix the front door.  The latch caught the bolt a little loose which allowed the door to wiggle slightly when shut and locked.  Couple this with the fact that I installed the alarm magnet a bit off center....

At 3 am the alarm goes off and I awaken to the panel yelling "Alarm, front door."  Not exactly what you want to wake up to.  The next thing I knew, I was standing at the top of the stairs with the gun pointing at the door. I am not sure how I got there, but my wife mentioned that I was at the stairs before she woke up. 

My point is that if you use the safe a few times it gets stored into muscle memory and you don't need much brainpower to operate it.  Also, you can get it out quickly.  At the end of the day, the risk of my son messing with the gun is 100 x more dangerous than the probability of me needing it.  So, for me it works great but that is my situation.

Sounds good!  Another option:



http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/octagon-gun-clock-dark-oak.aspx?a=472552&pn=6

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2010, 03:06:03 PM »
OOOOO I love that clock Serellan.  Need those in every room of the house  ;)

Functional and functional.  Double wammy.




Offline Who...me?

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2010, 05:28:03 PM »
otowner, glad that worked out for you. Very responsible.

Stein, I don't carry at home either, unless I just haven't taken it off yet. There is no way for me to comfortably carry with as little as I wear when in the castle. I don't fault anyone that does but I made sure my home was not an easy place to gain entry to. The "tip of the spear" people I work with don't either. You can't "kick" my door in and I'll be able to reach my strategically placed HD arsenal should you try. If they breach my door with explosives, I doubt any gun could help me anyway.

+1 GD   Hardening your home so that gaining entrance is loud and somewhat time consuming is, or should be, your first line of defense.  I don't like to carry at home or have the shottie readily accessible with the grandboy around so making it very hard to get in allows me the time I need to retrieve firepower from it's locked storage or better yet have the intruder decide the made a mistake and it is not worth the time or effort to get in.

Offline Ken325

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2010, 10:07:42 PM »
One thing that my dad did when I was a kid was really smart.  He took all the kids out to the country and set up a private firing range.  He set up watermelons, blocks of ice, buckets full of water, and other things that would react dramatically when hit.  He then blew the hell out of them.  He used big calibers like 45-70, 12 ga, and 44 mag so that the result would be spectacular.  When he was done he made us hold up the remains of the targets in front of us, and made us talk about how big a hole a gun would make in a person.  Very scary, and it made a big impression.  He then said that he has guns hidden in the house and if we ever touch them without his permission that we would get an unbelievable butt whupping.  Very effective and a good idea when your kids get old enough to think logically.

In the mean time I would get an alarm so you have some warning if someone tries to enter, and I would keep your defense gun in a safe with a biometric lock. 

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2010, 10:32:15 PM »
I agree with Ken.  Education is the most effective safety device.  My boys are VERY familiar with Guns, Bows, Knives etc.  They know how to use them, they know what kind of damage they can do and they know the wrath of Dad will fall upon them if they ever touch one without permission or handle them with permission in an unsafe manor.  I trust my boys at 8 and 11 years old a 1000% more than many, many other supposedly "gun" educated people. 

Also I test them randomly ever 3 or 4 months.  I leave one of the firearms (unloaded with a chamber or trigger lock) somewhere where they may find it.  (not obvious).  It may be on the table under some paperwork or up hidden next to the VCR, or falling out of a gun sleeve in the van,  etc, etc. 

When they see a gun at they don't touch it and immediately call out to Mom or Dad.  They have also done this at one of their uncles houses and their grampas house completely unprompted (Did my heart good to see them in action because I wasn't expecting it).

Training and education.  Helps reduce the "Wow" factor that generates so much curiosity in the young.  Still practice safety as well, but ever little bit of "Extra" goes that much further to ensuring safety.



Offline Serellan

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2010, 12:39:06 AM »


When they see a gun at they don't touch it and immediately call out to Mom or Dad.  They have also done this at one of their uncles houses and their grampas house completely unprompted (Did my heart good to see them in action because I wasn't expecting it).

Training and education.  Helps reduce the "Wow" factor that generates so much curiosity in the young.  Still practice safety as well, but ever little bit of "Extra" goes that much further to ensuring safety.




I do this as well.  I originally did it to placate my wife, to show here that I was teaching our daughter to "get mommy and daddy" if you find a gun.  I use a KWA Airsoft M9 that looks EXACTLY like my M92FS.  My daughter is 3 1/2, and she has passed the test every time.  I do the same thing with medicine bottles and tools as well.

Offline donaldj

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Re: Balancing accessibility & safety
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2010, 09:43:43 AM »
I know this thread is old...

I got one of those small safes good for a pistol or two and has a digital combination to open it.


The method that has worked best for me is to open it at night and put my watch in it next to the gun.  Therefore, the pistol is easily accessed, and right next to my bed when sleeping.

When I go to work in the morning, I get my watch, which acts as the reminder to close the safe. Ergo, it's closed except for when I'm next to it.

Generally, I concealed carry at all times (except at work), so this solution is only bedtime intent.

D