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Author Topic: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan  (Read 34538 times)

Offline CdnGuy

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Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« on: September 06, 2009, 12:20:28 AM »
Note from Jack - I split this post off from Coldhavens orginal post about  modern survival focus because it was so outstanding I felt it should have its own thread as a stand alone.  One of the best conversation starters ever on TSPs Forum!

I don't mean to be so presumptious to think that I could as elegantly say what CH has said. There was something...I don't know...transcendent about that post. It just reverberates.

However, I would like to add my reasons for following a preparedness philosophy in my life. Maybe someone new to this way of thinking may find motivation in it. The stereotypical motivations of fighting the NWO or other things like that are so emotion based as to not be sustainable. But having a goal is sustaining. Well, without further ado....

Preparedness as a Retirement Plan

The concept of retirement is a relatively new one. Not so long ago, when we were a more agrarian based society, few people ever retired. Their daily duties just changed. As we grew older, we would take over running the farm, and then we would maybe step back and let our kids do that.  Maybe we would take over maintenance of the equipment or something little less physically demanding, but required experience. Maybe we would help out more inside the home. But flat out retirement to travel south or play golf all day was the domain of the ultra rich. Even then, most tycoons were still wheeling and dealing well into their 60’s and beyond.

Nowadays. with retirement plans tanking and pension funds bleeding out, we may find ourselves without the ability to retire once again. However, this time, we won’t have the farm to feed us and the multi-generational home to keep us occupied and close to our loved ones. If we’re very fortunate, we may be able to find a spot in a retirement home and sell our current homes to pay for it.

Me, I have a different plan. My plan depends on me getting prepared to take care of myself and my wife for as long as we are physically able. If my plan works, we’ll also be able to ‘retire’ early. That plan is preparedness.

When you think about it, if you can provide most of your own food, utilities, and medicine and your shelter is bought and paid for, how much money do you really need? Enough to pay the property taxes, run your vehicle, and take care of emergencies. Maybe you need some money for a bit of travel as well. But not as much money as two people working for more than 40 hours a week each generate.

It’s not hard to imagine a household income of around $100,000 a year or about $73,000 after taxes. (Remember, I'm in Canada. Our dollars are about 80% of the USD.) Now, we know a lot of people are going to have mortgage payments around $1400 a month, utilities of at least $400 a month, TV and Internet for another $200 a month, $500 for food, $400 for various insurances, $200 for gas for the vehicles…it goes on and on.

So just the cost of living consumes $3100 of your after-tax income. Yearly, that’s about half of your income. If you can pay off your home, produce half of your utilities, drop the fancy TV package and step down a notch on the Internet access (that’s a tough one for me) and produce half of your food, you cut that outlay to about $1100 dollars a month. At that point, one of you can effectively retire. Or, the two of you can work half as much.

So what do you do with the extra 20-30 hours a week? Do the soul-building things like work your garden, love your spouse, split some wood, read books, start a business, whatever! Now, you are working for you. And should everything go for a poop, you are completely prepared to live comfortably and well with little to no income.

I find the thought of retiring to my homestead around the age of 50 to be a much more motivating and positive thought, than to think of prepping to cope with worldwide disaster. Disaster may never come, but time always marches on.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 07:53:10 AM by ModernSurvival »
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Offline Heavy G

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Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2009, 09:32:28 AM »

Preparedness as a Retirement Plan


Brilliant.  And inspiring.  +1 CdnGuy.

You might be interested in the ten-book prepper novel series called 299 Days.  I, like, wrote it and stuff.  Prepper Press is publishing it.  Seriously.  Check out www.299Days.com.

"If you pissed away your time and energy watching football and herding the family to endless soccer games, well, sorry grasshopper." -- post by jasonthomas on TSP

Offline ModernSurvival

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Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2009, 11:49:35 AM »
CdnGuy,

Sounds like an upcoming show topic to me,  ;)  Awesome post!
Jack Spirko

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"If some of our teenage thrill seeker really want to go out and get a thrill.  Let them go up into the north west and let them tangle with a Grizzly bear  or Polar bear or brown bear and get that effect that will cleanse the soul".  ~ Fred Bear



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Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 12:12:51 PM »
Wow, thanks for the retirement thoughts.  We are worrying about the 401K right now.  This is a much better retirement plan to work on. 

Offline CdnGuy

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Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 12:25:18 PM »
Big praise guys, I'm honoured. Thank you.
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Offline ColdHaven

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Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 12:29:20 PM »
Thanks for the post! That is a good goal to have. Afterall, a retirement plan is prepping, but you have decided to do it in another way. We tend to forget that many of the things we spend money on are luxuries. Long ago people provided almost everything for themselves, unless they did not have a certain skill, and then they would go to a professional who was well trained in that area. We now live in a society of professionals who have training to suit all our wants and grant us services that we do not think we have the time (or do not want to) learn. In turn we become more dependant on others without really even realizing it.

I like your retirement plan. It is one I hope to obtain myself, and I hope many others in this nation adopt your retirement plan as well.

+1

Offline CdnGuy

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Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2009, 11:48:12 PM »
Thank you! I'll know that I have reached my goal when we only need money for taxes and books! Okay, maybe a bit more than that.

Thoreau heavily influenced my thoughts on this.

The world is my entertainment. I get to see a masterpiece in the morning and one at dusk, I listen to the sweetest music when my sweetie talks with me. I get to dine on the finest food, that most restaurants will never have. I will travel the world in books, and occasionally in an airplane or car.
My life will be my gym, my day my exercise. My repetitive work will be my meditation class. The orchestra will play daily in the wind through the trees and the sounds of wildlife raising young and flying by.

The problem with a lot of people today is that they expect the world to engage them - to come to them. Microwaves just aren't fast enough. I want to engage the world like we did when we were young. We got the other kids together to play ball, or bike to the swimming hole. We didn't have our parents calling us on the cellphone. They just flicked the front porch light. If we didn't see it, we heard about it within seconds. Our curfew was the streetlights.

I could go on and on and sound like the crusty old man. Yet I'm only 37. Has the world really changed that much so quick?
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Offline Heavy G

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Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 06:41:56 AM »
+1 cdnguy

You might be interested in the ten-book prepper novel series called 299 Days.  I, like, wrote it and stuff.  Prepper Press is publishing it.  Seriously.  Check out www.299Days.com.

"If you pissed away your time and energy watching football and herding the family to endless soccer games, well, sorry grasshopper." -- post by jasonthomas on TSP

Offline CFG

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 11:41:40 AM »
+1 to Cdnguy and +1 to you too, Jack.  Great post, great show.  We had actually been planning to sit down and revamp our budget, so I'm going to incorporate your suggestions about financial planning into our meeting.  We are mortgage free as of 9/14, and in a position to start really taking control of our lives.  It is so good to be able to say that.

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Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 11:54:47 AM »
  We are mortgage free as of 9/14, and in a position to start really taking control of our lives. 

I can't tell you how good it makes me feel every time a TSP member says those words!  Rock on and claim your destiny now that you have control over it.
Jack Spirko

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Offline CdnGuy

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 06:18:21 PM »
+1 to Cdnguy and +1 to you too, Jack.  Great post, great show.  We had actually been planning to sit down and revamp our budget, so I'm going to incorporate your suggestions about financial planning into our meeting.  We are mortgage free as of 9/14, and in a position to start really taking control of our lives.  It is so good to be able to say that.

I don't know if I can do this, but +1 to Coldfishgirl for going mortgage free! How so? That karma goes around by showing people it CAN be done. Sweetie and I have to sit down and look at this ourselves to plot out how we can best accomplish it. Right now we're snowballing my incredible $500 credit card debt, another of her debts and then all we have is the mortgage and to create an emergency fund.

Part of our plan is that once we have the home paid off, or close enough depending on the market and other factors, we will mortgage it again to buy the BOL. That way the collateral is the home that we will move out of and rent, while the BOL is paid in full. Should something happen crazy in the market, we lose the home and not the BOL which is where we want to be anyway. This plan worked very well for my parents.

When they bought their last home, their cottage was paid off. So they took a medium sized mortgage. My dad did it over a 25 year term. Now, he was already 60 when he did this. He also had mortgage insurance in case of his death. Unfortunately, he died about 2 years later, suddenly. He had no prior health issues and had only taken 1 day off sick in  over 25 years of military service. Fortunately the house was paid for, everything was paid off and he left my mom in a solid financial position. Perhaps this isn't the gameplan everyone should follow, but in that case it worked out. Think creatively folks. Think things through.
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Offline hd45hunt

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 07:13:00 PM »
Wow, awesome post CdnGuy.  This is exactly what I plan to do (just turned 38) within the next 5-10 yrs.  I want to work, when I want to work, not because I have to work to survive.  Listening to every one's different take on this subject helps one organize their thoughts and put a plan into motion.  Once again, awesome post.
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Offline CdnGuy

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 10:41:39 PM »
Thanks bro. I'm turning 38 too. For the longest time I had a vague idea of this on the periperhy of my mind. The last couple years of researching preparedness has helped to hone the idea. What Jack said is totally true, the world pitches this illusion of the whole Freedom 55 crap. That just ain't gonna happen. I kept telling myself for years that if I just got a good paying job and did what I was told, that would happen. Well, I saw where that got my dad. Dead about 15 days after officially retiring. BS, I says.

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Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2009, 09:24:42 AM »
Just when you thing that every topic has been covered 2,3,10 times, some Cdnguy comes along and plasts the notion out of the water! ;D

Great read, and great items for thought!

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Offline Bad_Synergy

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2009, 09:50:57 AM »
It is funny how commonality of preparation works,,, If you are prepared for a genuinely secure and strings-free retirement, you are more or less prepared for all but the worst SHTF scenarios.

I particularly appreciate this thread.  At only 35 years old I already a medically retired police officer, stemming from a dog bite injury at work.  The odd thing is this seemingly tragic accident is probably one of the best things that has ever happened to me – it propelled me to reevaluate my life, career and the ubiquitous false sense of stability that culture propagates. 

Given California’s ponzi scheme economic policy (where I live) it didn’t take me long to figure out that my retirement account was terminal ill.  This was the tinder that got me thinking about being a prepper, and since has given me my compass bearing - for not getting away from what I am afraid could happen, but for getting to where I want to go.

Great post CdnGuy,
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Offline EmmaPeel

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2009, 10:19:28 AM »
We've always had it in the back of our minds that when we got old we did not want a house payment.  In the last couple of years, that has been reinforced by a few things.  1st at 37, my DH had a heart attack.  He survived and is doing well but lives on medication that isn't good for your body.  2nd, my mom retired at 56 years old.  She worked hard to have a good retirement sum come to her.  But, she spends more than she needs to and then the stock market tanked and she lost a lot of her money.   She's not prepared to make it long-term.  She's still got a mortgage and had car payments until recently.  3rd, I'm learning how dependent we are on our government and I don't like it.

So, as a plan for the future, including retirement, we want to be more self-sufficient.  We are working towards that as quickly as we can.  Once you make that decision, nothing seems fast enough.
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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2009, 11:20:25 AM »
I too have found that I used similar methods to retire at 40; I have my property and investments. I bought all my tools and toys prior to making this type of move. I got debt free early and have made it a point to stay that way, single has not hurt either. I bought stake in several small up and coming business with different platforms to have a source of income. I act as silent partner and go to problem guy without taking a regular paycheck or having to work regular hours. I picked my retirement property based on price but also with cost of living factored in. I can with no other income live on my savings for years based on my plan and area of living.

The strange thing is I never knew I was part of this community. Surviving 20 years as Police officer 5 hurricanes and several tornados made me think preparedness, now I am glad to have the community support and new ideas. 

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2009, 11:32:56 AM »
CdnGuy
Just listened to your first two podcasts! I'll pick up your third one in just a bit.
Great stuff.
You have a warm friendly voice and your slight accent make it fun to listen to.
Anyone who's spent any time around Canadians or folks from the upper midwest of the US will enjoy each time that little Canadian twang kicks in.
Your intro podcast was wonderful.
Your second podcast was very enjoyable and I really liked the detail you go into.
With the winters we have here in Ohio, I have some things a lot more in common with you than I do with Jack, considering what they call "winter" in Texas.  ;)
Keep up the good work.
I look forward to episode 3.

Offline cohutt

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2009, 01:12:01 PM »

The problem with a lot of people today is that they expect the world to engage them - to come to them.

I agree.  Most people never stop to consider they have a choice so they let the machine run them vs the other way around.  They expect the world to make them happy and therefore usually find happiness only by accident (if they are lucky). 
I could retire now if I chose to, as defined above and in Jack’s great podcast on this.  I haven’t chosen to.
 The reality is that once I figured out that I could do it, that I had the freedom to make a change any time I wanted to, “work” became “play”. Doing something by choice is much less stressful than being forced to do the exact same thing; when you are no longer a slave to the machine then life is a game. 
Bottom line: Living a life with a preparedness mindset gives you something most people never get to experience- freedom.  Freedom isn’t necessarily being disengaged from the system; I believe the ability to disengage at a time of your own choosing effectively grants you freedom as well. 


+1 to CdnGuy, for sharing your "moment of clarity". 

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2009, 02:27:47 PM »
...  Freedom isn’t necessarily being disengaged from the system; I believe the ability to disengage at a time of your own choosing effectively grants you freedom as well. 
...

That's worth a repeat.
Well said.
+1 (and this time its not for all that hard work on your garden thread)

Offline dudekrtr

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2009, 05:33:01 PM »
+1 CdnGuy. Amazing. This is exactly what I have been thinking about for the last few months, with TSP shows leading the way. I just hadn't strung enough thoughts together to realize what was driving me. I was actually pretty sure it wasn't just fear.

Fear is a negative motivator, although it often does the job. There was something good, something right, something almost intangible about all this. It just resonated with me; and I think a lot of other listeners as well.

Thank you for putting the skin on the bones of my thoughts.  :)
"What kind of recovery is this? We don't know, but if it continues much longer we'll all be unemployed."-Bill Bonner

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2 Timothy 2:2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

Offline CdnGuy

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2009, 09:04:25 PM »
Put the skin on the bones....I like that!

TSP was a bit of a catalyst as well. I've been haphazardly going about the self-sufficiency lifestyle for a couple years. Then, just like Jack was saying, I got to thinking, "If I don't need to buy most of my stuff, and the stuff that I have is built to last, like cast iron stuff and a straight razor for example, would I really need to work that much?" Then I went from there.

Somebody said something about creating another stream of income, like through Internet marketing or something. I think that's a great idea. Any sort of business built on a passion of yours will do the job. How many times do you stop in a small town at a store and wonder how the heck the guy supports himself? Chances are he's retired from something else and the store is his hobby. Just a thought.
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Offline dudekrtr

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2009, 10:47:57 PM »
I figure if I can find something that is fun to do, it won't be so much like work, and I can pull down a few bucks as well. But, if I can "prep" myself into a position of only needing to work one day a week, even doing what I do right now, with that much pressure removed, it might just transform that job into something a whole lot more enjoyable than it currently is.

I think a good goal would be to try to use the job only for the extras, not the necessities.
"What kind of recovery is this? We don't know, but if it continues much longer we'll all be unemployed."-Bill Bonner

"The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled and the pubic debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officialdom should be tempered and controlled. And the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest we become bankrupt.  - Cicero, 63 B.C.

2 Timothy 2:2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

Offline CdnGuy

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2009, 08:45:46 AM »
CdnGuy
Just listened to your first two podcasts! I'll pick up your third one in just a bit.
Great stuff.
You have a warm friendly voice and your slight accent make it fun to listen to.
Anyone who's spent any time around Canadians or folks from the upper midwest of the US will enjoy each time that little Canadian twang kicks in.
Your intro podcast was wonderful.
Your second podcast was very enjoyable and I really liked the detail you go into.
With the winters we have here in Ohio, I have some things a lot more in common with you than I do with Jack, considering what they call "winter" in Texas.  ;)
Keep up the good work.
I look forward to episode 3.

What accent? I was just oot and aboot when I was taping that, eh?  ;D

The audio quality on the third episode sucks. Cross talk between my headphone wire and my cellphone charger wire. Episode 4 is way better, sound quality wise.
I totally would love snowy winter tips and such from our Northern U.S. friends.

Even though I truly love Canada, especially Alberta and the prairies, if the US was more stable, I'd really consider a move to somewhere like North Carolina. Somewhere with what I'd call a 3 season year.

I've always found the average American to be friendly and supportive, I don't know what the French are talking about. I also LOVE the original mindset of the United States of America. On a tangent, you folks need to go back to calling it the United States of America and not just the US or America. That should help reintroduce the concept that each state is a republic and responsible for itself.
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Offline dudekrtr

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2009, 10:23:41 AM »
OK, I give up-podcasts? What have I missed?  Can you give me a link?  ???
"What kind of recovery is this? We don't know, but if it continues much longer we'll all be unemployed."-Bill Bonner

"The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled and the pubic debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officialdom should be tempered and controlled. And the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest we become bankrupt.  - Cicero, 63 B.C.

2 Timothy 2:2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2009, 12:03:25 PM »
OK, I give up-podcasts? What have I missed?  Can you give me a link?  ???


Sorry, I thought I posted it above but I didn't.

http://www.canadaprepared.com/

BTW, I listened to #3 and I loved it.
There was a sound quality issue, but the content was great.

Offline CdnGuy

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2009, 10:25:30 AM »
Sorry, I thought I posted it above but I didn't.

http://www.canadaprepared.com/

BTW, I listened to #3 and I loved it.
There was a sound quality issue, but the content was great.

Yeah, I got that figured out for #4. There was crosstalk between my phone charger and my microphone wire. So, I'll just make sure my phone is charged, or unplugged, before I do the recording.
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Offline fred.greek

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2009, 08:06:03 PM »
The powers that be want you to work, and be taxed, all your life…  and they want it impossible for your to pass to your children the benefits of your labor.

If you disconnect from the taxed economy, you’re still going to be required to pay your “property tax”. Consider:

Everyone in your neighborhood owns their home free of any mortgage.  All are fireproof and grow enough food to feed the family.  Someone from each homestead works enough to pay the property taxes, but otherwise each family more or less specializes in some craft, and the crops grown.  Since everyone gets along on the barter system, and no money changes hands, you ignore the rest of the taxing authorities. 

Wrong.

Your local “sales tax” authorities may consider all of your barter exchanges a commercial transaction, and demand their tax. 

The IRS  is also quite likely to consider your exchanges as commercial transactions, subject to income tax, self employment (Social Security & Medicaid) tax, etc.

And it can get worse.  Say the neighbor kid double-digs your garden, and you barter some of your canned goods in exchange.  If the tax authorities deem the kid your employee, vs an independent contractor you potentially owe minimum wage, tax withholding, and such other labor law requirements as are imposed in your jurisdiction.  (Our laws are “nuts”, and even the tax authorities DO NOT know what they say.)

Although no money actually changed hands in any of the above events, if they are deemed taxable you will have to obtain official currency somewhere to pay the tax officials.  Most likely, someone from each family will be forced to work at a “real” job to earn cash.

Government agencies, in particular the tax authorities, have a vested interest in fragmentation of families, friendships, and communities based on such.  If you are growing your own food, looking after your neighbors, helping each other, taking turns letting the kids gather at homes, and not hiring someone for these "services", the tax authority has no easy basis to establish and siphon off part of the effort.  Government agencies have a vested interest in discouraging people from taking care of themselves, or each other, and in CREATING problems, and expanding problems, to expand the scope of the solutions the agencies offer.
 
Tax law has crammed health insurance into the square-hole of being an employee benefit, a tax deduction to the employer, not taxable to the employee, but not in the best interest of the employer, employee, or the insurance company.  Until health insurance ceases to be primarily a benefit provided by an employer, it is going to continue to be a mess.  ANY government run program though is going to be a BIGGER mess.  Re the U.S. government, consider, it cannot even provide for day to day employee salary and keeping the lights on at government buildings, without BORROWING.  It borrows for everything else.  Does any sane person want any aspect of their life dependent on an entity that is so badly run?

Social Security (perhaps the greatest Ponzi scheme in history) tax has created an illusion of a retirement income, as have promised pensions from employers, rather than individuals setting up their own clearly owned and ongoing plans.  Take GM for example, it is broke.  Without cash coming in from the fed, which is borrowed, it would be bankrupt, and the planned big pensions and health care would be gone. 

Lower ongoing / outgoing costs.  I suggest the FIRST thing to eliminate it any reception of broadcast television.  It saps your after-tax money, and the time that is your life, that could be far better utilized.

Your IRA / 401(k) can be invested in rental real estate, a small business that you control, etc.  Google “checkbook IRA”, or “real estate IRA”.  Your IRA can own the home rented to your brother, and his IRA can own the home rented to you.  You can both of course charge well below “market” rent.  No tax consequence…  Your IRA can own a small business, where you work… How about a prepper business, an LLC that buys and sells say storage food, which the business must of course have a large stock on hand at all times.

Gold, silver, copper, nickel, grain, .22 LR, coupons good for dental work, WHATEVER, they are all currency for a local economy, just NOT what the government wants paid in.  For many purposes, you’re stuck having an emergency fund in dollars… But I again point to nickels, to the extent that you need some modest amount of cash about, why not nickels, which at least have the potential to climb as inflation becomes more significant.

The concept mentioned, of mortgage insurance, fits a hyperinflationary environment.  If all stays well, you earn and pay off the loan.  If the fertilizer hits the fan, the amount owed on the mortgage stays fixed, and your (hopefully) growing income lets you pay the loan off with the monopoly money (With apologies to Monopoly..)  My point, I guess, is that if you assume hyperinflation, life insurance, and inflation hedges, intended to pay off some fixed loan, are great. 

Life insurance as a generic pot of money, hopefully for your surviving loved one to live off, may be a sad joke.  As we’ve seen over and over, the politicians can inflate away any value of an insurance payout in terms of a currency…

There is “good” debt, and “bad” debt.  If you have debt to own a productive asset, it’s “good” debt, and like mortgage insurance to cover a place to live, insurance to cover a debt on a productive asset is a good thing.  Without the debt though, the insurance can be worthless.

My exercise, is my garden.  Must as it was back when I was a kid.  My neighbors have commented on the mess… on my doing the yard myself, rather than paying someone, as they apparently feel I should… I guess I should then go to the gym with them…

I recall one grandfather retired, and said he wasn’t going to do anything except watch the grass grow… Within a year or so, he was watching from below the grass.  The other grandfather was partially disabled from factory accidents, but kept busy at gardening, tinkering with stuff, small scale business, etc., and lived much longer. 
Retired, but still working in the garden...

Offline CdnGuy

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2009, 09:37:50 PM »
I can see you've thought about this a bit. Well done!

I was thinking something similar just today. My son lives with his mom. What would happen if we got to the point of self-sufficiency and I didn't make very much money because I didn't need the money? Would the gov't let me get away with sending him food and making him clothes? I don't think so. In fact, I suspect that they would label me a dead-beat dad, even though if my son lived with me at that point, he'd have everything he needed and then some. Plus some of the healthiest living available.

At what point does the system end and the human begin? I really don't know. It's a bit disheartening to think of, really, but at the same time all a person can do is all a person can do!

I guess the only way we'll find that answer is to reach self-sufficiency and see what happens.  ;)
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Offline cougar

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2009, 09:09:01 AM »
+1 Cdnguy!
I love this thread.  So many people putting into words what got me started here.  I looked around last fall when the economy was tanking and my retirement account was dwindling.  I'm in my late 30's and figured out i dont want to work til i am in my 70's (which is what retirement will be when we get there).  So we started doing the dave ramsey thing and as i looked at cutting expenses.  I quickly figured out the more self sufficient you are, the less money you have going out.  As i looked for podcasts on self sufficiency i came across tsp.  I continue to be amazed by this forum and the show.  I still put money in retirement that i wont be able to touch til i reach whatever arbitrary age the government says is 'retirement', but i am also stashing money elsewhere and making plans to slow down ('semi-retire if you will') before 50.  Your discussion of weaning down what it takes to live is a conversation my wife and i had several months ago. We are blessed to live on 5 acres several miles from town, so we are starting alot of this already.
 Again, thanks for bringing it here for discussion since reading about others thinking and doing the same thing makes it feel more doable.
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" -Ronald Reagan