Author Topic: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan  (Read 137980 times)

Offline Ian-FW

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2009, 07:26:17 AM »
Makes perfect sense to me. Taking that leap is freakin' scary!

I would suggest that you take whatever time and cost estimates you've come up with, and double them. If you are good at estimating such things, then still add 50%. Unexpected expenses will always come up. A big one for me was finding a couple huge car-sized rocks in my excavation, and having to pay for a jackhammer backhoe to remove them. Also, it will take you much longer to do things than it "should". All sorts of things will take time away from your building, like weather preventing you from working, or needing to take time to help a neighbor out with their projects.

I've done pretty well with my budget, only being about 10% over at this point (although my whole house structure was a fixed cost, which made budgeting easier). I haven't been so lucky on time, though. I'm currently about two months behind where I had expected to be.

I would advise you not to make the leap until you have the savings built up to make some serious progress on building. You might feel like you're going stir-crazy in the city "just" saving up money, but better to do that for a while than to get a house half built and run out of money.

Finally, of course, have plans B, C, and D. Figure out what you will do when your building savings run out, because they eventually will.

Offline Ultraist

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2009, 08:46:48 PM »
Those are good points.

I've been leaning towards finding some land with an existing house on it for some of those reasons.  Would like to build the dream home from scratch, but it'd be easier for the family if there was a home there to begin with.  Seems like it'll be a multi-step process.

Thanks!
Mike.

Offline ntrngr

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2009, 09:55:05 PM »

I could go on and on and sound like the crusty old man. Yet I'm only 37. Has the world really changed that much so quick?


Don't sweat it. One does not have to be old to think with wisdom. ...and once you start its kind of like a cloud burst.

You said all the things I've been thinking for 2 years (I'm 47 now). I'm a ways from getting it done but I get closer every day. I chucked at your "If everything takes a poop..." terminoligy.  I just hope I get pretty close before "everything takes a poop."

Thanks again.

-NetRanger

Offline wookie in the forest

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2009, 11:28:27 AM »
that is my greatest concern. I don't want to be caught with my pants too far down. A little  I can handle, but too much and we are FUBAR'd. We have alot to do and we fear only a few years to get it done. I want us as a country to survive a;though I can't say who would be left...

Offline quiet-man

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2009, 07:13:13 PM »
When I was your age... I never looked far enough ahead to think beyond my retirement. I guess it's why I hope others consider your post. So, I'm retired. I'm doing OK, but I've been serious about self-reliance & preparedness since my early 20's. I can live cheaper, feel more confident, and have most of what I want because of that. However, when you get older, you'll find that a labor-intensive life-style  might be more than some can handle, especially if you're not accustomed to it.  This forum is a good source of knowledge and direction. I'm glad that so many of you have chosen a path apart from the other "Sheeple" we live among. Enjoyed your post.

Offline fndrbndr

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2010, 01:10:45 PM »
This is an intriguing idea...pay off your house early, eliminate most of your bills and live self-sufficiently from there on out. Sounds like a plan.

Offline gawain12

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2010, 04:30:25 PM »
This is one of my favorite threads. Really inspiring and exactly what I had been thinking for some time right before I began listening to the TSP. It's really cool not to be alone out there in this.

I turn 31 in May. I am living in my first house, my BOL, out in the Shenandoah. It's awesome here, but still a little close to D.C. for my liking. Anyway, it had always been my desire to get it right the first time around on purchasing a house, you know, buying a home that I (we actually, as I have a wife and two kiddos) could grow in and live in for the rest of our life. Lucky for me, we found our house and my wife and I have grown to love it, even as we fix it up. Also lucky for me, I found the TSP which has provided lots of direction and ideas for moving forward and turning this place into a homestead.

I am presently watching my parents, who I love, are now retired, and in their late 60s, drown in debt because they refuse to abandon the entitlement lifestyle. It is sad to watch, but providing a clear yet unfortunate glimpse into what happens when you let living on credit consume you.

The sad upshot of all this is that had my parents kept their first house--an old farm house on an acre or two--it would have been paid for long ago, could pay cash for all their toys and wants, and likely not be on the verge of bankrupcy.

Offline Cool Blue

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2010, 07:16:49 PM »
Quote
I am presently watching my parents, who I love, are now retired, and in their late 60s, drown in debt because they refuse to abandon the entitlement lifestyle. It is sad to watch, but providing a clear yet unfortunate glimpse into what happens when you let living on credit consume you.

The sad upshot of all this is that had my parents kept their first house--an old farm house on an acre or two--it would have been paid for long ago, could pay cash for all their toys and wants, and likely not be on the verge of bankrupcy.

Oh man, I'm in pretty much EXACTLY the same situation as you.  I don't know about your parents, but with mine it's not an income problem, it a spending problem.

I'm hoping that in 5-10 years I can buy a house and rent to my parents at a low rate so at least when they're too old to work they won't have to worry about making rent.

My in-laws on the otherhand are the exact opposite.  My father-in-law was forced to go on a disability pension and only makes around 600 a month and my mother-in-law only works a part time minimum wage job, yet they have a great standard of living!

The reason is that they paid off their house early and never got into debt.

Thanks to this they can live very nicely in a semi-retirement manner with little income.

Offline gawain12

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2010, 12:03:15 AM »
"but with mine it's not an income problem, it a spending problem." --Cool Blue

Yes, that's exactly what it is with my parents. I think it has to do with the sense of entitlement that they grew up with: "I've worked hard all my life. I deserve this. I don't really want much in this life. I just want a few luxuries like normal people, etc." And numerous other rationalizations. This past week I told my mom, politely but stepping on her toes a bit, that they can no longer afford to live this way. They are no longer at the point in life where they can assume they can just pay it off later.

The other side of it is that, like many others in their shoes, they don't want to believe that the party is (or even could be) over and that the day of financial reckoning is coming nigh. I'd like to help them, but I know it's not realistic. Being the youngest, I can only lead by example and let them know that it is cancer to add debt on top of debt every year and tell them how great it is to pay off debt.

That said, my parents have always been generous to me. I want to help them as much as possible, but they just don't want to listen when I tell them not to buy me stuff on their credit card--repeatedly. I just shake my head, thank them and pray.

Offline jonathans

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2010, 12:58:07 AM »
This thread and the show that Jack did on it have inspired me. I listen to the same show often while I work (earbuds). I have always been a "outside the box" type. I have always questioned EVERYTHING. I will do the needs and wants assessment, and I WILL use the system, to break free of the system.

Offline beachwalker

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2010, 04:42:32 PM »
I have a 10 year plan. My warehouse/investment property will be paid off and throwing off income. My retirement accounts should be well into the mid six figures. Hopefully the house will have enough equity to pay for the house on the BOL.

I have re-evaluated my life. The desire to become self sufficient is over whelming.

The only thing that concerns me is the chronic heatlth problems (diabetes, etcc...)

I have considered a move to Canada as a health insurance backup plan...   ;D

Offline Cool Blue

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2010, 04:23:20 AM »
I have a 10 year plan. My warehouse/investment property will be paid off and throwing off income. My retirement accounts should be well into the mid six figures. Hopefully the house will have enough equity to pay for the house on the BOL.

I have re-evaluated my life. The desire to become self sufficient is over whelming.

The only thing that concerns me is the chronic heatlth problems (diabetes, etcc...)

I have considered a move to Canada as a health insurance backup plan...   ;D

I'm sure once you achieve your goal your stress in life will decrease and your health will benefit.

Canada could use more people with common sense like preppers but be warned that although we give out free needles to junkies, diabetics have to pay for them in Canada.

Offline maxhedroom

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2010, 05:37:36 AM »
With the economic collapse of the USA propelled by the progressive political machine and fueled by massive debt, I have come to the conclusion that most Americans in their late 40's and up can't experience the type of retirement our parents had.

As I sit and contemplate my retirement fate as a 50 year old man, I realize that the retirement of the greatest generation, the silent generation, and even the one enjoyed by the first boomers is difficult at best to have; and more realistically it is unobtainable. So I am on a quest to find a way to enjoy my “golden years” to optimize the balance of my years of life to enjoy my family and create a true balance in my life. In doing this I hope to create a resource and reference guide for people like me and for the generations to come.

Let’s face it; social security is anything but secure. Pensions are virtually non-existent and my 401k has had more gains and losses than Oprah Winfrey. So I am seeking a way to create a lifestyle that will allow me and my wife to live a full and rewarding life with some self-reliance, until we leave this wonderful world for our next adventure.

The only way (un)social security can continue is from revenue from a national health care program or maybe cap & trade. Which is another step towards losing our freedoms. If you are 55 or less I feel you must prepare and develop self reliant skills and relationships because the money you have paid into this ponzy scheme is lost.

 I have been researching this "new" lifestyle for a while and I have got my wife on board. 1st we are working to have no debt, 2nd we are learning the storing & preserving of food, 3rd getting out of our rural condo and into a homestead and we are voting for our future at every election at every level. This is a scary time for pre-retiree's.


Offline beachwalker

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2010, 01:58:54 PM »
My goal in ten years is to generate at least half of my energy needs, 80% of my food, and be 100% mortgage free.

I find work enjoyable, when not accompanied with financial hardships. I could see working until my final day on earth, because I want to work.

My parents got married shortly after Korean War, lived in a garage apartment with nothing but hand me down furniture.

55 years later, they are worth a mint, though never living much above middle class means until the last ten years, and even then with an eye on the ball.

It is strange to see my parents in this economy. Aging and a bit scared! They still work everyday when they don't have too and they are both pushing 80 years old.

It will take this Great recession to shake Americans to our core and reboot the Depression era financial values of our parents and grand parents.

I have faith that even in this culture of "I wants" and easy debt, there are many  that will succeed. It is a valuable lesson for children to see their parents sinking under the stress of debt from hell.

I have been too priveledged and could have and should have done better by now, but I'm better off than many.

I don't believe we are headed into the abyss, but do feel like I've being stewed in a pot of steadily warming water. This slow boil effect will eventually mean much higher taxes to cover entitlements (Medicare, Social Security).

The savers and preppers have always adjust and finsh ahead of the spenders. This has been the case in every uncertain period of US History.




Offline Glockman1980

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2010, 11:21:23 AM »
My wife and I turn 30 this spring and we close on our new 2.8 acre homestead on April 2.  I believe we can have our new house producing for us almost completely, and have our mortgage payed off by the time we are 45.  I love this topic of early retirement from "society's norms".  It has been difficult to convince my wife that this is attainable but I think once she has seen the result of our "profits" from having our house provide for US, she will be completely on board.  I have been working for someone else for 15 years, and have managed to compile debt in my early 20's that we are still trying to pay off.  In this 15 year period I have almost nothing to show for my debt.  We are not in far, but any debt is TOO much for me.  Anyway I'm rambling, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I'm so excited I had to tell someone.  ;)

Offline beachwalker

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2010, 03:16:10 PM »
Social Security will always be there in some form, the problem is the value of that dollar, but then again  it is indexed to inflation.

Former Fed Chairman Paul Volker has floated the idea essentially they would add one month each year to the "retirement" age by two years and systematically over a peroid of 10-15 years would stabelize the SS system without raising taxes.

Medicare is the big elephant in the room. Social Security is a pittance IMHO.

People going in the direction of self sufficiency and are heavy savers and preppers will largely be unaffected.

Offline jonathans

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2010, 07:15:50 PM »
How about this idea.
What about working only a few months a year. I'm thinking the winter.
I'm a sun lover. All I want to do in the winter is hibernate anyway. Might as well work.
Then, after few months of working, go into my semi-retirement on the homestead for the spring, summer and fall.

Working only until I reach my predetermined goal of near 10k, or whatever keeps the income tax as low as possible.
With my job, I could do that in less than 2 months.
I work for a contractor for the cable company as an installer. I install cable, internet and phone.
I would think they would hire me any time, especially if I gave them 110% for those few months.
I give "near 99%" now and I have a great rep with the company. I could go back to anyone who has employed me in the last 10 years and go back to work.
We are pretty much ALWAYS hiring. It's very hard to find people of the caliber that the cable company will accept (and accept their work) that will also put up with the work conditions and the hours (7 days a week now).
Satellite and cable installers are always needed all around the country.
I know you think, well they wouldn't want to be jerked around like that...
well, my answer is, they have such a high turnover, they contantly hire and train and lose money on people.
A few onf them stay in the business for an extended time, often going to greener pastures (satellite to cable and back..)
And even those guys will eventually get a good job offer and leave permanently. So it's really kind of a mercenary business.
If i maintain a good rep, I think they would accept it. I would be the only one doing it I am sure.
Plus, it would put me in a great mood/attitude. I could give 110% for a few months if I knew I had the rest of the year off.
I have to wait until my daughter is out on her own, to drop down to a retirement income. So I guess I have at least 7 years before I can do this.
Whadaya think?

Offline dudekrtr

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2010, 07:33:35 PM »
I'm kind of in the same boat, about 7 more years for the oldest to turn 21.

But, I'd rather wander down to someplace warm for a month or two. The kids will be old enough to keep the house under control.

Then I would work, say, 1 or 2 days a week to reach the  appropriate income level.

Offline SailormanCGA72

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2010, 12:26:59 AM »
Retirement and preparedness go hand in hand for us.  I will be retiring from the corporate world in less than two years.  We have land that is paid off and we will sell out where we currently live.  The plan is to build a RV garage/workshop and live in the RV while we build our house.  We have done this before and while it doesn't work for everyone it works for us.  Fortunately even as I approach 60 God has blessed me and my wife with good health.

Our plans include a raised bed garden, fruit trees, berry bushes, beehives, a small vineyard, a greenhouse and enough cows to keep the land in agriculture tax exemption.  We plan on lowline angus cattle since they are smaller and easier to handle, a couple of dexter milk cows and a mixed bag of chickens, guineas, ducks and maybe some turkeys. Our gardening skills are pretty good.  We continued to eat things out of our garden all winter long.  You just have to plan for fall/winter crops, and do a lot of canning.  We already have a year of food stocked up in a couple of locations.

When we build, our plans include solar power, rainwater capture, greywater capture, insulated concrete form house, solar water heater, and as much permaculture techniques as practical. I've been a devotee of Bill Molison for years and have worn out the Permaculture Designers Manual.

We have worked hard all our lives, never took any handouts and don't expect any.  We are blessed to be close to debt free and with the military pension and 401K, along with raising our own food, we should be OK.  Any SS benefits will be an extra that I don't rely on. Anyway, that's our retirement/preparedness plan.

Offline bartsdad

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2010, 01:55:47 AM »
A:
This thread has been selected as a “best of” thread by bartsdad.  You can search for “best of” threads by using that term in the search mode.  Everyone on the forum is encouraged to reply to a post they think is “best of” worthy so we can all search for them.  For more information on the “best of” thing, see  http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=3423.0

B: This thread may really be the best thread on the forum so far.IMHO

Offline OKGranny

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2010, 12:00:56 PM »
Just adding our story. Twenty years ago my husband got seriously ill, medical bills devastated our nest egg and put us in debt badly. We stopped, took stock of everything and made a few decisions. We sold the fancy house in nice neighborhood, used what equity we had to pay off most of the medical bills and started looking for a place in the country. We found where we live now, it had beautiful land, an old single wide mobile home, and a burned out husk of a barn and a horrible well full of iron and magnesium (manganese? Whatever turns stuff black anyway). We spent 5 years making huge payments so we could pay it off in that time frame. When it was paid for we built a nice barn, a big shop building and witched for a good water supply, then had a new well drilled. During this time we had a huge garden, some chickens and guineas, and lots of horses. Then we decided to build a house. Since we were committed to no mortgage it took us nearly six years but we did it. Three and a half years later hubby became completely disabled. I can't imagine where we would be now if we hadn't made the change in life stlye when we did.

Offline mmyersPA

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2010, 10:09:50 PM »
A few years back, I started thinking "downsize and simplify".  I was inspired by a great friend, now deceased, who was in his 80s at the time.  He had given away all of his possessions and was living with his various children.  He had such joy!  I thought, now why do we go through life acquiring possessions, when joy comes from other sources?  He loved to get down in the dirt and pull weeds in my garden.  He told stories.  He loved.

Here's my story...

DH is retired.  I was laid off in October.  Been paying down the debt for 3 years, and have about 2-3 years to go depending on income (not the mortgage...just everything else).  I'm working on building multiple income streams.  I still have to get a regular J-O-B due to our current situation, but the goal is to have enough income from other sources in 5-7 years so that I only have to work for someone else if I want to. 

We have great gardening skills and other survival-minded friends.  We live on 2 acres, and could homestead here.  We have a small fruit orchard with about 10 trees: pears, apples, cherries, peaches, plums.  Also have perennial crops: asparagus, currants, blueberries, strawberries.  We save seeds, and added new heirlooms to our collection this year. 

We'd prefer to be further out in the boonies, so we're considering a BOL that will likely become a FT homestead over time.  Gotta deal with the debt first.  Also, taxes on our current property are $4500/yr...a bit excessive, so long-term homestead here may not be the best option. 

DH's parents were depression-era folks, and he grew up in a home that lived very self-sufficiently...growing food, reusing things.  I've learned a lot from him.  He can fix anything, and loves to cook.  (He's very good @ it).  He also does our canning.

P.S.  I think I need to learn how to hunt.  DH and his sons are big fans...I just think I should pick this up as a survival skill.  I haven't worked up a passion about it yet...






Offline maxhedroom

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2010, 05:41:13 AM »
At 51 & 52 respectively my wife and I are on our way to a differant lifestyle. Debt pay off is within reach, except for the mortgage which has 12 years if taken to term but we want to sell our condo and get land or a home with land. But that requires a mortgage again.

So do I take the longest loan possible to reduce the payment and know it will be there until I die or I can pay it off, or make it the highest payment for the shortest term that we can afford? My Time frame to go is 3 years to be out of the old and into the new.

I know all the benefits of my own land, in fact I had several great homes before thrown a curve ball in life I am just battling with the finance part all suggestions are appreciated. ;D

Offline Cool Blue

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2010, 07:17:39 PM »
If I were you I'd try to pay off that mortgage as fast as you can.  One the best things you can do is live rent/mortgage free when your elderly.

Offline OKGranny

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2010, 12:31:38 AM »
If I were you I'd try to pay off that mortgage as fast as you can.  One the best things you can do is live rent/mortgage free when your elderly.

True Dat!

We aren't elderly yet but if we had had a mortgage on this place when DH became disabled we'd be in a mess. Those huge payments required a lot of so called sacrifice of other things that turned out to be no sacrifice at all.

Offline maxhedroom

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2010, 06:28:57 AM »
True Dat!

We aren't elderly yet but if we had had a mortgage on this place when DH became disabled we'd be in a mess. Those huge payments required a lot of so called sacrifice of other things that turned out to be no sacrifice at all.
My concern is that to stay in CT near the children and to get the type of property we want we will have to maintain a mortgage into our retirement. Keeping the payment low will be the key.

Offline Cool Blue

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2010, 01:24:46 PM »
Well you could take a longer term so the payments are liwe but you can voluntarilly make higher payments to lay it off faster. Then if you ever need to lower the payment you won't be penalized.

I'd also recommend taking biweekly payments instead of monthly. Because of the way interest works this will shorten the lenght of your mortgage. It took 7 years off mine!

Offline maxhedroom

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2010, 04:58:46 AM »
 >:(

Offline Herve

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #88 on: June 26, 2010, 04:23:37 AM »
wow! Great Thread! THANK YOU FOR PROMOTING FREEDOM!

I'm only 29  ;) and haven't worried so much about retirement until a couple of years ago, when we had a "consultant" coming at work to "advise" us about pension plans (living in UK, that's I think the equivalent of your 401k). I certainly won't let another manicured consultant trying to convince me I should let them in charge of my money so that they can invest in a portfolio of companies such as BP or God knows what, and without any oversight from me on what my money will be used for.

I am slowly taking in that I can only rely on myself and the people who are close to me for when I will retire. One of my nearly-retired colleagues at work has (had?) most of his pension plan with BP, and since what happen in the Gulf is now left with nothing. My father is still living in France, where all pensions are managed by the state, where it is just too evident that the government will default, won't be able to meet its obligation and won't be able to pay for everyone (they are trying to increase the retirement age from 60 to 62 and as a result got >1 million people protesting in the streets... hopeless!)

Thankfully I have no debt - unfortunately I have no assets either.

Thank you again for TSP, it really confirms what I was starting to consider!
It really helps to realise I'm not the only one thinking this way - normally I got the usual dismissal: don't worry it's not the end of the world sort of mentality.

Offline Cool Blue

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Re: Preparedness as a Retirement Plan
« Reply #89 on: June 26, 2010, 06:24:40 AM »
I'm coming around to thinking that your best bet for "retirement", as in you can no longer care for yourself, is the equity in your home.

Work on paying off your mortgage so you can "live for free" and then when it's time to go to the retirement home you can sell it to pay for your care.

Speaking of France, a friend of mine from France was saying that there is a private plan in France which is kinda like a reverse-mortgage but the payments continue until the death of the home owner.

The kick is however, that once the person dies, the house belongs to the financial company whether he died a week or 50 years after signing.