Author Topic: Russian Systema  (Read 44852 times)

Offline cajunkraut

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2009, 12:52:02 PM »
So is the Val vs Debo fight going to be on Pay-per-view or what?  ;D

Offline Jimbo

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2009, 10:34:56 AM »
Systema: I'm sold on it & will plunk some clams down for Val's DVD set this payday. Watched some Systema vids on Youtube, taught a Gal who works in my office the "hand on chin" smackdown & she clocked me... I hope she doesn't beat her hubby up now with what I taught her!

 I like the Russian approach to problems, during the space race, the U.S. spent millions on a pen that could write in zero gravity.... The Russians used a pencil  :D

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2009, 03:09:43 PM »
Did things not work out for the meetup?  Is there video of somebody falling down? 

Offline Jimbo

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2009, 07:41:28 AM »
 Jack, as soon as my Pay Pal gits da munny from my bank, will get those DVDs. The wife is eager to learn this stuff, hopefully I won't become TOO battered a husband! ;D

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2009, 10:20:30 AM »
 Just ordered and downloaded "The Science of Ballistic Strikes." I really liked this quote: "This is what true self defense is all about. Avoiding confrontation through strength without violence, as a last resort not a first response to a situation. It is about knowing how to handle yourself in any situation and being there for the ones you love at the end of the day, so you can take care of them."

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2009, 08:00:48 AM »
 Got the DVDs, like them, hope I never have to use this stuff. Will try to "Johnny Appleseed" Systema in my corner of the world! 8)

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2009, 12:18:43 AM »
People always love the mystical martial arts.  ::)

Offline Dylboz

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2009, 03:19:36 PM »
Systema is hardly "mystical." I've been studying it with Yuri Talalev, himself no slouch (Champion of Western Siberia in full-contact Karate, also studied Aikido and Ken Jutsu extensively), and occasionally, these guys too, for over a year. I've never had one bit of mythology or spiritualism or magical mumbo-jumbo shoved at me, or even offered to me by a single instructor. There is some philosophy, and talk of state of mind and consciousness, but that is necessary for any combat training, even going to the gun range. I am an atheist, and a scientifically minded person, and that sort of thing ran me out of Aikido classes a long time ago, so I wouldn't have stuck with Systema for as long as I have if it were that way.

Furthermore, I learned a lot from Konstantin Kamarov's recent seminar here, such that I will make a greater effort to attend the next seminar Vladimir offers in the U.S. This is an effective, real world combat system that focuses on practical self-defense, not belts, or points, or sportsmanship in sanctioned competition, nor is it rife with any magical mysticism. I recommend it highly, and it should be taken as seriously as Krav Maga, or Tae Kwon Do.

And to that one guy Debo, who was saying stuff about Systema not being "well-rounded," we work on grappling and floor techniques, joint locks, take downs and take-down defense EVERY SINGLE class. I just don't think you have any first hand experience outside watching these YouTubes to base your opinion on. I sure would like to see you bring your objections to Vlad's next demonstration!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 03:24:32 PM by Dylboz »

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2009, 10:33:27 PM »
Systema is hardly "mystical." I've been studying it with Yuri Talalev, himself no slouch (Champion of Western Siberia in full-contact Karate, also studied Aikido and Ken Jutsu extensively), and occasionally, these guys too, for over a year. I've never had one bit of mythology or spiritualism or magical mumbo-jumbo shoved at me, or even offered to me by a single instructor. There is some philosophy, and talk of state of mind and consciousness, but that is necessary for any combat training, even going to the gun range. I am an atheist, and a scientifically minded person, and that sort of thing ran me out of Aikido classes a long time ago, so I wouldn't have stuck with Systema for as long as I have if it were that way.

Furthermore, I learned a lot from Konstantin Kamarov's recent seminar here, such that I will make a greater effort to attend the next seminar Vladimir offers in the U.S. This is an effective, real world combat system that focuses on practical self-defense, not belts, or points, or sportsmanship in sanctioned competition, nor is it rife with any magical mysticism. I recommend it highly, and it should be taken as seriously as Krav Maga, or Tae Kwon Do.

And to that one guy Debo, who was saying stuff about Systema not being "well-rounded," we work on grappling and floor techniques, joint locks, take downs and take-down defense EVERY SINGLE class. I just don't think you have any first hand experience outside watching these YouTubes to base your opinion on. I sure would like to see you bring your objections to Vlad's next demonstration!

if you think Systema is effective for you more power to you. I found the material I trained in to be laughable and explained as being "effective" through the use of non-resistant partners and mumbo-jumbo rambling about people's energy and what not. 

Offline Dylboz

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2009, 01:50:35 PM »
It works very well for the Spetznas, didn't you see that "Deadliest Warrior?" My instructor is himself the former Karate Champion of Western Serbia, an NCO in the Russian Army with combat experience, and his mentor teaches the Russian Police, who use these hand-to-hand combat skills regularly (there's a very different police culture over there, they are not as obsessed with "officer safety," such that unlike American cops who use weapons like pepper spray, batons, Tasers and even pull their gun before going hand-to-hand, in order to avoid direct contact and personal injury, Moscow cops often begin their interactions with suspects with a violent and intimidating demonstration of physical force, and Yuri tells me, no Moscow cop would ever pull his firearm out as a means of intimidation and control, as U.S. cops often do, barking orders from behind their gun, he assures me that if the pistol exits the holster, lead will soon be flying, no warnings).

Also, my best buddy, a former Marine, Ninjitsu practitioner and martial arts aficionado accompanied me to most of my Systema classes for the better part of a year, and still occasionally does. He has nothing bad to say about the nature or quality of the instruction, only that for him, since the classes are directed at novices (most of us students are indeed nowhere near as skilled as he is), they do not provide him with enough of a challenge to continue attending regularly. If there were a studio, and a range of classes such that the more advanced students could work with each other and the instructor at a more challenging level, he'd most certainly continue to participate. Hopefully, if interest grows here, that will be a reality in the future.

Anyway, for me, that is sufficient affirmation of the value of this training. Still, I will look for other martial arts disciplines to study, and have recently become very interested in Krav Maga. As an aside, I look at all of this kind of training as a survival skill, not a kick-ass-and-take-names skill. If I live to fight another day, or just put enough distance between me and an attacker that I can reach safety, or access my weapon, or get help, then it worked. I don't need to be able to fight like Jet Li and singlehandedly destroy the Triads and expose a corrupt police force in my home town, while still looking good enough when it's all over to make the chief's hot young daughter swoon. You know?

Son_of_the_Republic

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2010, 01:23:36 PM »
Just stumbling onto this.Very fascinating.Reminds somewhat of the Jason Bourne movies.

I worked with a guy who had spent years training in various Japanese martial arts.He was a little guy,dwarfism I think but when he got me into one of his wrist holds I would have done anything he asked of me.The guy was lethal.Having said that, he more or less had to dedicate years of his life to the training to reach his level of expertise and thats what this things often require.I suspect Systema is in that bracket of required time and dedication looking at this vids.

I myself spend some years training under the Shaolin monks in London,UK and I also enjoy the boxing circuit training once in a while.Day to day I have a heavy bag in the basement.Those Shaolin Monks were capable of some very amazing stuff,some of it purely physical,some of it a little esoteric.For example,I once say my Shifu burn 2 volunteers using Qi energy from a distance of about 6/8' away.I say burn,he left foot long red energy marks not unlike Sunburn on their backs.Again,it was a lifetimes dedication and training that was needed to reach this heights.

I have had a few run-ins with muggers in my time.(Used to happen a lot actual,must have one of those faces). It has to be said,don't underestimate the psychological impact of getting down into an orthodox fighting stance and looking mean.That action alone has got me out of a scrape or two.Be prepared however to follow thru if required.

I wanna check this Systema out seriously now.

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2010, 01:46:09 PM »

Offline OC Celtic Lass

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2010, 03:38:53 PM »
Good compilation vid here:

Russian Systema hand to hand fighting masters.

This is amazing. My X husband, black belt taught me.........yet, I am amazed at this Russian Systema!!!!!!

NCPatrolAR

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2010, 09:32:04 AM »
Good compilation vid here:

Russian Systema hand to hand fighting masters.

All of that looks good on video, but my hands-on experience with the material was drastically different. The only time you saw the dynamic results from the instructor's technique was when he was working with his own students. When he tried to apply the material to non-students, the results were typically very lacking. It was much like Aikido to me.

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2010, 03:01:50 PM »
All of that looks good on video, but my hands-on experience with the material was drastically different. The only time you saw the dynamic results from the instructor's technique was when he was working with his own students. When he tried to apply the material to non-students, the results were typically very lacking. It was much like Aikido to me.

The bullshit gets old if you really want to understand it try a three step process.

1.  Find a systema trainer

2.  Go get hit one time

3.  Understand

Anyone that says this is fake or bullshit has no experience in it.  Further you are calling me a liar and quite directly.  I am no master of this but if you doubt it, next time you see me in person let me hit you.  ;)  Just a tap and you will immediately understand.  

My belief in systema came in one second, the second where Val Riazanov hit me in the stomach from about 3 inches with zero effort and I felt vibrations from the impact go through my entire body.  The entire thing is easily explained with basic physics no mysticism is necessary.  

If you saw me pick up a 5 pound hammer and tap a man in the gut with it and he doubled over would you doubt it?  If not why do you doubt the same thing can be done with the 15 lb club that is a average adults arm.  

It is important to understand what you see with systema is often drills, training the mind to know how the body reacts.  Morons and yes you are morons that watch these drills and say it is not effective are like morons that would watch a kata of karate and call karate ineffective because the kata is slow and deliberate.  

Tell you what I will put up 5K cash to the first man who goes and finds Vladimir, Val, Michael or any of the top guys with a camera.  Stand and take a tap first, then a real shot to the gut.  Prove it is fake on film, any of these men will be happy to oblige you.  Prove it or stop condemning and bad mouthing what you don't understand.  

That is not the first time I have made such offers, no such offers have ever been accepted.

Oh and on Debo's original statements he declined a sparing match with Val
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 03:08:41 PM by ModernSurvival »

NCPatrolAR

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2010, 04:47:36 PM »
The bullshit gets old if you really want to understand it try a three step process.

1.  Find a systema trainer

2.  Go get hit one time

3.  Understand

Maybe I'm just a moron, according to you anyways, but I've already been there done that. We had a Systema trainer come to my agency and give us an eight hour course. The material was absolute junk and completely ineffective when tried on a non-resisting subject. I even gave Systema a second shot when I tried a handgun course that was billed as Systema-influenced. That course pretty much sealed the deal for me when it comes to Systema. In short, for me Systema is junk and is nothing more than a mystical martial art that based out of Russia instead of China, Japan, or some other normally-thought of Asian country.

Edited to add: I've also done Systema work during a few instructor level courses (firearms-related) at different places. I guess I just havent found a "true" Systema instructor yet.
 

Quote
Anyone that says this is fake or bullshit has no experience in it.

Try again. BTW this is the most often cited excuse given by people that dont like something being said that goes against what they like/feel is effective.

Quote
It is important to understand what you see with systema is often drills, training the mind to know how the body reacts.  Morons and yes you are morons that watch these drills and say it is not effective are like morons that would watch a kata of karate and call karate ineffective because the kata is slow and deliberate.  

Once again, just a moron speaking, but I've been involved in martial arts for about 16 years now and have done quite a bit of research and training in various systems. I am more than aware of the difference between drills, katas, etc. You can try to say that I'm a moron due to my so called inexperience with Systema, but until the material can be applied with the same results, to non-resistant people I'm going to call BS on it.  

Quote
Tell you what I will put up 5K cash to the first man who goes and finds Vladimir, Val, Michael or any of the top guys with a camera.  Stand and take a tap first, then a real shot to the gut.  Prove it is fake on film, any of these men will be happy to oblige you.  Prove it or stop condemning and bad mouthing what you don't understand.  

No thanks. I stopped dealing with internet challenges back in the 90s. I've already wasted enough of my time with Systema, why would I want to waste any more?

« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 04:49:40 PM by NCPatrolAR »

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2010, 05:03:24 PM »
 

No thanks. I stopped dealing with internet challenges back in the 90s. I've already wasted enough of my time with Systema, why would I want to waste any more?


That pretty much says it all.  Waste?  I would hardly call 5 grand a waste.  There it is folks, I put up my cold hard cash and get the same old same old song and dance about why the person won't come take it.

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2010, 05:27:12 PM »
That pretty much says it all.  Waste?  I would hardly call 5 grand a waste.  There it is folks, I put up my cold hard cash and get the same old same old song and dance about why the person won't come take it.

So you are going to ignore the fact that I do in fact have experience with Systema, but dont share your beliefs simply because I'm not going to take you up on your challenge?  ::)

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2010, 05:36:32 PM »
And let me add I meant to say "resisting" several posts ago. I do believe I said non-resisting and/or non-resistant.

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2010, 05:38:07 PM »
No I am pointing out the irony of your statement.  As for you experience, based on the NC in your forum handle I imagine your instruction came from a long haired guy named Dean.  Probably promoting systema as part of the HAWK system, if so I understand why you feel the way you do.  I still say go see one of the real guys, prove your statements by standing up to one real strike, take a camera and take my 5K.  You won't, no one ever does.  ;)

NCPatrolAR

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2010, 05:47:52 PM »
No I am pointing out the irony of your statement.  As for you experience, based on the NC in your forum handle I imagine your instruction came from a long haired guy named Dean.  Probably promoting systema as part of the HAWK system, if so I understand why you feel the way you do.  I still say go see one of the real guys, prove your statements by standing up to one real strike, take a camera and take my 5K.  You won't, no one ever does.  ;)

Dean was one guy, James Williams was another. I dont know the name of the Russian guy that did the handgun class.

And in response to your statement; nope I'm not going to bother with your challenge. I stopped paying attention to that tripe back in the 90s.  :)

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2010, 05:59:27 PM »
Dean was one guy, James Williams was another. I dont know the name of the Russian guy that did the handgun class.

And in response to your statement; nope I'm not going to bother with your challenge. I stopped paying attention to that tripe back in the 90s.  :)

You gave up making 5K for 15 minutes of effort in the 90s holly shit what do they pay cops in NC.  Isn't funny how I knew exactly who your supposed systema instructor was.  Dean is a nice enough guy but if you base your views on him it is like basing a view of karate on a guy who watched a lot of Chuck Norris movies and met Chuck a few times.

Again I put up my own money, I think that speaks volumes.

I also guess the KGB and Russian Special Forces use "useless techniques"? 
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 06:01:50 PM by ModernSurvival »

Hare of Caerbannog

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2010, 06:04:22 PM »
James Yeager said something once and I'm sorry to him if I butcher the quote, but it went something like this: I hate these anonymous internet toughguys who claim to be experts on everything.

James, I know I didn't get the exact words but if I miss your meaning please feel free to correct me.

Ben Stone aka HoC

Offline daemonpi

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2010, 06:06:42 PM »
It's interesting to watch the principles they use, and from what I can tell it's worth further research.  To bad there is no instruction in my area.

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2010, 06:09:48 PM »
On the shooting techniques of the Russians, here is a real class done with airsoft, you guys can judge how practical or impractical it is for yourself.  Note the absence of fixed distance and no movement typical of many tactical training courses.  (Mr. Yeager's excluded by the way as  he gets heat because people move)

Russian Martial Art Shooting Seminar 1

Since meeting and becoming friends with Val Riazanov two things have really struck me.

1.  The fact that he and I served at the same time and were trained to kill each other disturbs me and always will.  I consider him a brother now, I could not imagine being asked to fire at him.

2.  I am really glad we never fought a conventional war with the Russians.  They would have made a hell of an adversary.




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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2010, 06:15:58 PM »
You gave up making 5K for 15 minutes of effort in the 90s holly shit what do they pay cops in NC.

Seriously, you are starting to come across as juvenile with the whole "if you let Vlad punch you in the stomach I'll give you $15k".

Quote
Again I put up my own money, I think that speaks volumes.

Certainly shows that you are confident in the system. Nothing wrong with that.

Quote
I also guess the KGB and Russian Special Forces use "useless techniques"? 

Like every police and military force on the planet, I'm sure they had their mix of effective and ineffective techniques.

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2010, 07:15:47 PM »
Seriously, you are starting to come across as juvenile with the whole "if you let Vlad punch you in the stomach I'll give you $15k".

Certainly shows that you are confident in the system. Nothing wrong with that.

Like every police and military force on the planet, I'm sure they had their mix of effective and ineffective techniques.

Name wrong, number wrong and I didn't say I would pay you to get hit but to prove your assertion to prove it is not effective.  See there really isn't another way to handle people that mouth off in a forum.  You give them an opportunity to prove or disprove their claims in the real world and judge the action or inaction.  It really is that simple.

Like HOC stated the internet is full of typing heroes I am simply willing to put my money where my text is.  You clearly are not. 

Perhaps you might just give me some creditability.  I have a huge brand built up here and if I am willing to state my reputation on systema may be just may be there is something to it.  You might also realize if you stop being a jerk that I do know the industry well.   How many people could have told you the name of your instructor just from your forum handle?  Seriously did that completely go over your head.

Folks I am done, anyone claiming this doesn't work as advertised is free to claim my 5 grand.  Anyone that dumps on that, well judge that action for yourselves.

Offline spartan

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2010, 07:36:30 PM »
Jack,

Did you ever meet or train with Scott Sonnen?  He taught a version Kadochnikov's Systema at my university. I had the pleasure of working with him and his students on a few occasions while studying Hoshin Jitsu Ryu.

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2010, 08:06:05 PM »
Jack,

Did you ever meet or train with Scott Sonnen?  He taught a version Kadochnikov's Systema at my university. I had the pleasure of working with him and his students on a few occasions while studying Hoshin Jitsu Ryu.

No but I have heard of him, big on grappling right a sambo guy if I remember correctly.  That is Val's background by the way, sambo and judo in fact he was a member of the Russian Olympic judo squad as a very young man.

One big thing I learned about the entire way Russians train.  Most fighters train to win, the Russians train to survive, understand that by surviving long enough an opportunity to win will arise. 

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Re: Russian Systema
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2010, 08:07:31 AM »
Now unlike most I PUT MY MONEY where my mouth is.  Val is coming in from the UAE in March to shoot some more film with us.

Get on a plane, come here, stand toe to toe with Val, prove it is "bunk" and I will pay you 5,000 Dollars in cash from my own pocket....

And YES I am absolutely 100% serious here.  Don't bother saying anything much in response unless you plan on booking a ticket to DFW Airport,

I would like to take you up on this offer.  The only condition is that we videotape it, and share copyright.

This would be a fantastic marketing opportunity for your system.  What is the schedule like for this guy?  Can his representative Neil Franklin stand in?