Starting an Apple Tree Orchard

[Cedar]

Too much water?

Cedar

[bigbear]

Long term, you can use milky spore to kill off the larvae.

But check out this article by Mike McGrath of the You Bet your Garden podcast.  It's full of solutions to Japanese beetles.

Don't know what's up with the tree, could be transplant shock, I guess.

Whoops...  Forget my DE comments...  I didn't use DE.  I used milky spore.   

Is it too soon to show symptoms of being root bound?  I doubt that's what it is since it was a bare root planting, but curious what the more experienced on the board will say.

I remember reading about being careful with the location, especially in harder soil.  And that the hole the tree is planted in could cause a water build up.  The theory is that water fills the loosely packed hole because the tighter soil around it doesn't allow for as good drainage.  And causes the roots to not get enough air, disease, and maybe root rot. 

[CagedFeral]

Too much water?

Cedar

Could be. The Liberty is slightly down hill of the GD. Bigbear may have a good theory. Relatively the same but the GD has a slight natural swell. Maybe I can direct run off away from the Liberty?  It should be good drainage but like he said, I dug a big 20 dollar hole for my 5 dollar tree. Maybe it's soaking too much up.

[Cedar]

Honestly, I would leave it alone. See what it does. I don't baby mine at all. I plant .in in usually moderately high clay soil. Just throw rabbit manure on them once in awhile. Water in summer when it is super hot. I never pinch anything off, prune starting their see one year. Survival of the fittest on mine, as I want them to be around long after I am gone.

Sounds like it was a discount/clearence tree? Some of those are are dicey anyway, most as someone culled them for shape or age in their bags. Maybe the rootstock on yours (probably a dwarf) doesn't like wet feet. Could be transplant shock.

I grafted up dozens of new trees in 2016, two died, two the top stock died, the rest lived and are thriving in their buckets (still working on getting oak stumps out of the orchard area so I can plant them). Why did two die? Who knows... i did not do anything different than the others, and at that time they all overwintered in the same five gallon bucket. Some just don't make it.

Cedar

[CagedFeral]

I'm leaving in be for now. It's warmed back up but still more rain coming.

I got them from Gurney's. Bare root full size. I've had good luck with them so far. Although I am wondering where my Goji berry & Saskatoon Blueberry plants are right now.

Your soil sounds like mine. I have about 4'' top soil then thick clay. Most things seem to grow well here though. That's why I wonder if I've made any mistakes when planting something new.

[CagedFeral]

Just to update: The Golden Deliciouses is growing like a bush! It's doing great. The Liberty's leaves wilted so I picked them off. The tree seems to still be alive. I'm thinking about cutting this 3ft bare root in half so that it might live by putting it's energy into it's roots.

Is this a good idea to save a tree or will it just stress it more? I'm not sure what to do for it.

I did spray with dr earth fertilizer but not sure that'll help with no leaves to spray.

[Cedar]

If it were mine, I would leave it be.

 Cedar

[jerseyboy]

On a related note, I was walking my back yard today an noticed a new apple drop under one of my apple trees and picked it up.  I just now got around to eating it and it was fabulous.  The funny thing is that it was just a red Macintosh apple, nothing exotic, but is was better than almost every store bought apple.  Fine flesh, not mealy, kind of tart along with sweetness.  Nice combination of flavors.

I just planted these three years ago and this is the first real production I have from this tree.  If the animals don't get them, there are about 10 more apples still on the tree.

Just thought I would share and hopefully push another suburbanite to planting some apple trees.  They are worth it.

Jerseyboy

[CagedFeral]

jerseyboy, Looking forward to that day. I should have planted 20 years ago.

I messed up so now I recommend that any new land owner plant fruit trees asap.

Just to update: The Golden D is about 8 ft high and doing fine. The deer nibbed it pretty good but it survived.
The Liberty is still a 3ft stick. No sign of life but it still seems bendable so maybe it will take off next spring.

[LvsChant]

@Jerseyboy: I agree with you... no matter the variety, homegrown always seems to be the best-tasting ever! I am really enjoying this year's crop.

[CagedFeral]

Just to update: The Golden D grew great this year and the Liberty never got any better than earlier posted.
The Liberty is most likely dead but still feels flexible so I've left it be and will see what happens in the spring.

My Golden Delicious did a great job and is near 8ft high and grew bush like. That's the reason I really wanted to post.
This tree grew well but has very healthy branches coming off in from low near grown. I've read that I should not prune the 1st year.  I know this tree needs pruned but I'm not sure I should yet. Should I give it to this time next year before I prune it?

I'm in Ohio and below 32 temps have already been here.

I also planted 2 Sergent crapapples last spring and they did great. I'm hoping they make good pollinators.

And Also,Also I planted a North Star Cherry tree this spring that did very well so I have the same questions about it.

[Cedar]

Is the low to the ground branches above or below the graft? If below, cut them off flush.

Cedarl

[CagedFeral]

Is the low to the ground branches above or below the graft? If below, cut them off flush.

Cedarl

It's all above the graft. The lowest one is about 4-5" above soil so that's above the graft. I planted the graft just barely above soil so should be good. Alot of suckers grew down in that low range though. Really looks bush like. I know I'll need to prune these off but don't want to interfere with it growing strong roots. Maybe wait and prune this time next year?

I've done some tree pruning but a baby fruit tree is new to me.

[Cedar]

I'd take anything off flush under 18" from the ground. Why did you plant the graft so low? Mine are at least 12" - 18" above the ground.

Send a pic and I can try to virtually prune it for you if you like. I have done it for other people.

Cedar

[CagedFeral]

I'd take anything off flush under 18" from the ground. Why did you plant the graft so low? Mine are at least 12" - 18" above the ground.

Send a pic and I can try to virtually prune it for you if you like. I have done it for other people.

Cedar

You plant the graft that high?! I read that it just needs to be above soil. I have no experience with grafted trees. I may have grew an apple BUSH by accident!

These were bareroot trees that I ordered. They were too small to get that high but I might have needed to get higher. I just made sure the graft was well above soil. I'm not sure how these grafted trees behave yet.

[CagedFeral]

I'm going to do a few pruning cuts soon. This deep freeze time of year seems right.

I've just ordered four more apple trees that will ship this spring. I think I've picked varieties that will work together. Finding an A -B is easy but linking A back to a B is confusing.

[CharlesH]

I know Granny Smith is a good a general pollinator in my area.  Another general rule of thumb I use is to compare harvest times.  It’s probably not full proof, but I think I get trees flowering at roughly the same time when the apples are ripening at roughly the same time.

[Cedar]

I know Granny Smith is a good a general pollinator in my area.  Another general rule of thumb I use is to compare harvest times.  It’s probably not full proof, but I think I get trees flowering at roughly the same time when the apples are ripening at roughly the same time.

Yes.... Buuuut...

Some trees need only one other pollinator, some which are diploids need two or more or won't set fruit. "Golden Delicious" will pollinate many varieties, which is why it is sometimes called a "rooster tree".

That said... Yes on the pollination times coinciding with flowering times...... SOMETIMES.  Orange pippin and a Seattle fruit tree organization have nice calculators for what pollinates what.

Since I lean towards pre-15th century fruits/apples, I really need to check.

Cedar

[CagedFeral]

My Golden D that I planted last year did great. I read that it's called the ''Rooster of the Orchard" so very happy that it's looking good.

I also found out here 1st that Crab Apple trees are good all around pollinators so I planted 2 Sergent Crab Apples last spring and they seemed to take off very well. I have 2 more coming.

I was looking for the main trees you'd want to start an orchard. I'm kind of looking for tuff varieties also. I don't have time for trees that need extra care ALL the time. I don't mind spending time to get them established but I'm not able to spend hours weekly to keep them going. I like a tree that knows how to get things done.

Anyway: This is what I've ordered for this spring.
Goldrush
Granny Smith
Pristine
Sundance

I have no idea about pollination here but I jumped in. I hope the Granny Smith makes it. I love a GS.

[bigbear]

I'll second Cedar's recommendation of using the Orange Pippin site.  They're UK based, but I do like their site and service.  I bought 3 apple trees on semi-standard root stock from them 4 years ago (Fuji, Golden Delicious, and Honeycrisp).  All still living and starting to set fruit.

https://www.orangepippintrees.com/pollinationchecker.aspx?a=0&v=1557

Just find your apple and a list of pollinators (and a brief description) are provided.

Assuming you're not planting your trees miles apart, I don't think you need more than 1 of the same type of crab apples if the only goal is for pollination.  I would think you can use that space for something edible or to just save yourself the time...

[CagedFeral]

This orangepippintrees.com site is great. Looks like I might be ok for pollination. Tells me what I might want to add too.

Thanks very much!

[CagedFeral]

Well the trees were planted last Sunday.

Goldrush , Granny Smith , Pristine , Sundance

these are bare root trees. I stuck them in what should be good soil. I've added zero amendments so far.

We'll see what happens.

[Cedar]

Good luck on them.

Cedar

[CagedFeral]

Good luck on them.

Cedar

Thanks Cedar. Now if Spring ever shows up I'll learn a little more this year.

A couple were "deluxe" 2 year old trees that came with fertilizers. It says not to add it for 3 months.
This makes me think I may have killed the Liberty tree last year by adding amendments. I may have overdone it.

I'll let y'all know what happens this summer. This is going to be a long learning process but I like it.

[CagedFeral]

Well I have five trees that did pretty well this year. I think they will make it. All different variates that should work well together.
I need to clear more brush and decide if I need a couple more apples this spring or maybe think about another cherry or start pears and plums.