Author Topic: Please help me start off  (Read 2197 times)

Offline CoralRives

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: 2
  • New TSP Forum member
Please help me start off
« on: October 31, 2017, 10:45:18 AM »
Folks;   I have 12 acres where I live that I would like to start planting.  I will read all I can, But need help sorting through the reading to know where to actually start learning about permaculture and/or just regular backyard farming.  I find forums are great for the advance questions and learning and I don't want to bog them down with neophyte type questions.  Which will be best for me? Is there a book I need to read first, a forum post, videos?  Thanks in advance.

Online surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6561
  • Karma: 84
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 10:52:42 AM »

depends if you are more looking for trees or plants

 I like ground nuts, walking onions (perennials), the concept of edges, and huggle kulture.

 I've had a little luck with grapes, nanking cherry, raspberries, and peaches thus far but am a beginner and only a little bit serious. I like greens - swiss chard, romaine - tomatoes, squash, green manure = turnips, daikon, clover, fava beans, fennel

Offline CoralRives

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: 2
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2017, 12:09:07 PM »
I want to use my land to garden food that my family consumes. I want to learn how to set it up, rotate and best use the land and space available.  Perhaps permaculture is a bit advanced for what I'm looking for at this time?

Online surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6561
  • Karma: 84
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2017, 12:56:39 PM »

 I don't think of it as any more advanced than anything else but different people have different impressions

Offline Black November

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
  • Karma: 72
  • Lifetime MSB & PermaEthos Founding Member
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 01:35:44 PM »
Permaculture approach: For every hour of work there should be 8 hours of thought first. Walk your property every day and dream. Let your property tell you what to do. At first, focus on things that are difficult to change, like solar aspect, climate limitations, earth works, irrigation lines. I also find it helpful to identify a focal theme like a name, shape, or vision. Then tie everything together into that vison using the three Permaculture ethics as guides.

Metaphorically speaking, it is much easier to design a room if you know it's motif. Is it a beach theme, sports bar, Victorian living room, a modern minimalist kitchen, or rustic cabin? once you know the theme of your property, it will be much easier to design.

You didn't specify your climate, but the theme could be something like:

Secluded rustic Mountain house property in the forest
Desert lush Oasis
Urban Demonstration Jungle Property
Remote offgrid survival compound with defenses
Granola hippie intentional community
Rambling Farm house (little house on the prairie)
Educational Outdoor School and Yurt
Commercial food production, livestock, or Nursery business
Aquaponic Fish hatchery
Buddist Temple Yoga retreat
Primative Indigenous bushcrafter Herbal medicine apothecary
Wilderness Hunter Land restorer 
 


Natural approach:
or just cast out random seeds like Masanobu Fukuoka and see what grows.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 01:45:04 PM by Black November »

Offline David in MN

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1192
  • Karma: 102
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 02:15:02 PM »
12 acres and you're just starting? Permaculture is a little advanced but if you start with the basics (start with zone 1) you can get rolling pretty quick and expand as you continue.

Don't get married to a philosophy. If I had to move my beloved raspberry patch next spring I would (done it before). I don't do permaculture per se but I use some of the principles in my suburban backyard. You might be better off just starting a few things and admitting you won't get it perfect ASAP. Or spend the winter reading and taking a PDC.

You'd get more help if you shared your USDA zone or relative location. Strategies are often region specific.

Online surfivor

  • Survival Veteran
  • ********
  • Posts: 6561
  • Karma: 84
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2017, 10:14:10 PM »

 a permaculture method is to ensure the soil is lose. What you can do is bury some wood under 18 inches of dirt so you have a pile that is maybe 4' x 6' or so. The dirt piles up in a round mound creating micro climates as there is more shade on one side. The wood under the pile helps the soil to retain moisture. I have not built beds any other way so I can not say I have experience with other methods. This is called hugel kulture

 A very basic concept is that partial shade helps prevent the soil from drying out. This can be an edge created by a forest, bushes, or other plants. I like to plant clumps of perennial walking onions. They come up very early in the spring and create such an edge effect. Then I plant romaine or swiss chard in between the clumps of onions. This can create a very lush garden much easier for me when otherwise I would have to spend a lot more time watering or everything will dry out from hot weather.

 My mother things my garden looks wild and disorganized but it is fun and interesting and I do not spend all of my time gardening. I like to go to town and plant stuff in the spring but after that I become more distracted with other interests in the summer

Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 12860
  • Karma: 690
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 05:36:39 AM »
  I would start with what you eat and does it grow where you live ? We can only guess you live on earth.

Offline CoralRives

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: 2
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 06:13:19 AM »
12 acres and you're just starting?

Ha!  I just found out about it!  I've been watching Jack's Youtube series on it last couple of days.  After watching the first few videos, I would say I am thinking more along the lines of growing a self-sustaining, self-sufficient garden in my yard which is 12 acres of some grass, open areas, some forested area.  I have a small, sometimes dry creek running through the forested area  I love in Central Virginia, out in the "country" about 30 minutes west of Richmond.  We have grown tomatoes, peppers, squash, melons, etc.  It's a good area to grow with 4 distinct seasons.
At this point, I am thinking more sulf-sufficiency rather than the Earth-friendly permaculture systems although I have no issue with doing both if I could. 

Offline Stwood

  • Survival Demonstrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 2261
  • Karma: 58
  • Wut wuz dat Olie?
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2017, 05:46:04 PM »
Welcome. I'd start with your gardening, and expand from there.
Learn to store and can (preserve) what you grow.

Offline bigbear

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1391
  • Karma: 81
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 12:52:23 PM »
Nice!

Step 1:  figure out a convenient spot to plant a small-ish garden
Step 2:  remove grass, loosen soil
Step 3:  plant seeds.
Step 4:  water then figure out it can be a hassle, so you end up automating where you can
Step 5:  wait
Step 6:  watch for bugs, figure out what they are, squish/trap/spray where appropriate
Step 7:  watch for issues (fungus, mildews, yellow leaves, etc) and research issues, adjust
Step 8:  harvest
Step 9:  cook (or not) and eat
Step 10:  figure out how to store what you don't eat
Step 11:  ask yourself what worked?  what didn't?  why?  research and apply solution to step 1 next year

Obviously I'm oversimplifying it.  All of them have nuances...  But that's basically it.  Get down that path once while you're doing your reading and studying techniques and planning.  If you're still interested, keep studying and planning.  Adjust as you go along.  No one plants their first garden knowing every they need to know.  Don't let that stop you for getting your hands dirty. 

I started with Ed Smith's "The Vegetable Gardener's Bible".  The first half is general gardening stuff: planning, location, spacing, rotation, composting, etc...  The second half has a bunch of common plants with some information on each one. 

"The Backyard Homestead" and "The New Self-Sufficient Gardener" both give a good high level read, and in many places are detailed enough to get the job done.  Supplement what you see there with your Google-fu and you're off to the races.

"Good Bug, Bad Bug" is good for understanding your enemy and your allies.

Storey's book about animals are good overviews.  Not much details on sickness/treatments, but good for pretty much everything else (at least that's the case for their chicken book).

I've heard good things about "Practical Permaculture" if you're interested in that.

Offline CagedFeral

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
  • Karma: 8
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2017, 05:37:15 AM »
Plot out an area that gets good sun but won't shade other crops in the future and plant 3 or four apple trees. I'm trying to start a small orchard myself. Your fruit trees on a homestead will take time so I'd start them asap.

Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 12860
  • Karma: 690
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 06:06:15 AM »
  Some peaches too,you need peaches.

Offline LvsChant

  • Resident Master Mudder
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 6996
  • Karma: 596
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2017, 09:41:17 PM »
I highly recommend getting some good books to help you get started. There are a few I particularly like and refer back to. Among them is: The Backyard Homestead. It has a little bit of everything with very basic tips... Also, I'd recommend listening to some of Jack's earliest podcasts... not only are they hilarious (when he is having a Jetta rant at the other drivers), but he covers a lot of basic information that you may find helpful.

Good luck and glad you are here!!!

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 11:22:23 PM »
.

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2017, 08:50:58 AM »
Folks;   I have 12 acres where I live that I would like to start planting.  I will read all I can, But need help sorting through the reading to know where to actually start learning about permaculture and/or just regular backyard farming.  I find forums are great for the advance questions and learning and I don't want to bog them down with neophyte type questions.  Which will be best for me? Is there a book I need to read first, a forum post, videos?  Thanks in advance.

So many variables.

1. What USDA zone are you in?
2. What soil type do you have?
3. ow wet/dry is it there? How long of a spring/summer/fall/winter do you have?
4. What is already on it?
5. What kinds of weeds are growing on your land?
6. What direction do you want to go?
7. Do you have any past experience of anything to do with land, animals, gardening, preserving?
8. Do you have kids? Get them into 4H or FFA, and learn through them, especially being a co-leader or parent assistant in the 4H club
9. What do you enjoy doing?
10. What skills do you have? What do you need to hire? What are you willing to learn?
11. What infrastructure do you already have?
12. All of family on board with it?

What kind of permaculture do you want to do? After the initial idea back in the day, it has morphed. I am more like the old school type, and there are new ideas on permaculture which I rather think are fads on some of them. Not that I think they are wrong, they are just not for me. What do you want to do?

Do you want livestock? Just garden and fruit trees?

What do you enjoy?

Cedar

Offline kingranch03

  • Fledgling Prepper
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: 3
  • Developing a 30 acre homestead from bare land.
    • High Sierra Permaculture
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2017, 07:35:29 PM »
Firstly, congrats to the new piece of land you have acquired.

I would recommend the book "The Resilient Farm and Homestead" as a read for understanding permaculture as it may apply to designing a farm / garden.

A book that applies permaculture to just the ag side of things would be the Market Gardener or even Gaia's Garden.

Permaculture is very much based off the skillset of being able to read the landscape - aka eco-literacy. Learning anything about plants, soil, water, topography, climate and more will benefit anyone wanting to integrate permaculture and farming.

Check out the link in my signature the to the eBook, it will give you tons of info on evaluating a landscape, which is the fundamentals of eco-literacy / permaculture.

Check out any books / videos / classes that relate to these topics and you will be able to see your land like you never have before.

A book that comes to mind that exemplifies the essence of permaculture is "Tending the Wild" by M. Kat Anderson. While it is focused on CA natives, it's principles apply nearly everywhere.

Good luck with it!

Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 12860
  • Karma: 690
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2017, 04:58:07 AM »
  You,or anyone else ,are welcome to any files from my Google Drive:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5ZIZLZV4AwINmFocGRzQUdpQmM

Offline courageusmind

  • Fledgling Prepper
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: 0
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Please help me start off
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2017, 06:18:42 AM »
What about an aquaponics system? It's cheap to install, requires more maintenance in the beginning, but after 6 months or so the system will function more or less on its own. I just installed one in my garden 3 years ago and I have to say it was the best decision I made in my life. If you like eating a lot of fish and all kinds of fresh veggies, I highly recommend it. It requires some knowledge and practice but it's not that complicated. There are even online courses that show you step-by-step how to build such a system.

Regards.