Author Topic: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law  (Read 31224 times)

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2016, 08:20:43 PM »
Both MidwayUSA and BulkAmmo have sent me emails in the last couple days reminding their California customers to sign the Gunmaggeddon petition.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2016, 11:32:20 PM »
The recall did NOT get enough signatures to go to the ballot --

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2016, 11:53:19 PM »
How short were we?

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2016, 12:07:16 AM »
How short were we?

I havent heard yet, will update if I do. I would think it would have to be close

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2016, 12:17:07 AM »
According to the LA Times it wasn't even close.  Less than a third of the necessary signatures were collected.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-sac-essential-politics-updates-veto-gunmageddon-group-fails-to-1475006955-htmlstory.html

Offline Jeremy Downing

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2016, 03:52:20 AM »
I'd be high-tailing it out of Komifornia as fast as my leetle feet could carry me. The laws there would make me throw away good jobs and start over in a place that loves freedom. Hell, Texas has beaches. South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida..

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2016, 09:45:18 AM »
According to the LA Times it wasn't even close.  Less than a third of the necessary signatures were collected.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-sac-essential-politics-updates-veto-gunmageddon-group-fails-to-1475006955-htmlstory.html

LA times site wont let me look at it, as I dont subscribe. Could you copy that part ?

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2016, 10:08:37 AM »
Got the info, Gunmageddon site  https://www.vetogunmageddon.org/signature-counter/

Very frustrating, but we had very little time, and very little help.

While it was good for people to sign themselves, very few volunteered to actually help GET signatures, at lest around here. The same few people here collected signatures. But, we actually got, and this is what I would like to know but dont, I think we got, our goal in signatures.

But, there was no money in this, and just a very few volunteers all over the state I think. Yes, it looks like half of what we needed !! I know the small, extremely gun-unfriendly county I live in was way above 50% of what we were trying to get, I think we hit or were close to our signature goal, which is why I assumed the rest of the counties were too -- nope, I guess not.

There were 500 signing stations in California, so 2 were in my little county. One of the other people I know, who also was realy helping to get this done here, figured it this way, if 500 signature sites, we only need 1,000 ( realy minimum of 800ish) signature per site. So, maybe we are just too logical here, we took count of what we got and gave a last push to get at least "our share" of what was needed, including some of us taking petitions home, calling people, walking to our neighbors, etc... to get the signatures.

Besides our own rough count of how many full sheets we had, there was not enough manpower to have feedback on how the entire state was doing. Maybe other counties did not grasp that they needed to think about what they had and how to get at least their share.....

And, I do get, when you have basically 2 people covering a county ( 2 people with jobs and families), filling more than half the shifts at signing stations themselves, that we were spread realy thin.

I felt that many more people here could have volunteered -- and didnt --
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 10:20:48 AM by mountainmoma »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2016, 10:12:54 AM »
That it wasnt just one petition really hurt things too. People are reluctant to sign complicated petitions.  For the petition to overturn SB 880 which had the best chance they had about 115,000 signiatures in hand when the pulled the plug. They expected to need about 600,000 signiatures to get the needed 350,000 unchallengeable ones.  So they were either 1/3rd the way or 1/6th the way there depending on how you view it.  The group made an interesting observation that most California gun owners were unaware the law even changed or didnt understand what had changed.

On related news I received an email from Century Arms announcing the end of CA compliant AKs.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2016, 10:23:13 AM »
That it wasnt just one petition really hurt things too. People are reluctant to sign complicated petitions.  For the petition to overturn SB 880 which had the best chance they had about 115,000 signiatures in hand when the pulled the plug. They expected to need about 600,000 signiatures to get the needed 350,000 unchallengeable ones.  So they were either 1/3rd the way or 1/6th the way there depending on how you view it.  The group made an interesting observation that most California gun owners were unaware the law even changed or didnt understand what had changed.

On related news I received an email from Century Arms announcing the end of CA compliant AKs.

This is true about the knowledge. There will be many people in violation of the new laws, and yes, they do not know they have changed, and will not know in many cases, unless and until they get ensnared by a violation -- or, when they go to buy ammo !!

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2016, 10:28:28 AM »
That it wasnt just one petition really hurt things too. People are reluctant to sign complicated petitions.  For the petition to overturn SB 880 which had the best chance they had about 115,000 signiatures in hand when the pulled the plug. They expected to need about 600,000 signiatures to get the needed 350,000 unchallengeable ones.  So they were either 1/3rd the way or 1/6th the way there depending on how you view it.  The group made an interesting observation that most California gun owners were unaware the law even changed or didnt understand what had changed.

On related news I received an email from Century Arms announcing the end of CA compliant AKs.

There was no one reluctant to sign, even though there were 7. We apologized and explained. The issue was that too many people were completly unaware of the need to do so. No-one who came to sign didnt because of there being more than one.

We did not have manpower, we were not everywhere getting general public to sign, at least in this county. Maybe non-gun owners would have balked at signing 7 times.

We had one radio station announce about the issue, but otherwise, we realy had no way to let the general public know. Newspaper coverage, or posters or a campaign, again, there was a time/money issue. I am sure many gun owners had no idea. The ones I went to in the neighborhood here had no idea until I told them personally.

Offline xxdabroxx

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2016, 10:30:49 AM »
I think "veto gunmageddon's" distribution was flawed with the piggiback measures.  They should have distributed pdf's for people to print themselves and collect signatures.  I know for a fact I could have gotten more friends to sign by taking my own home printed paper to their house to solicit their signatures.  Many people just weren't willing to take the time out of their day to visit a gun store and sign a bunch of petitions.  They weren't even going to let Bass Pro distribute only the 2A related ballot measures alone, it was all or nothing.  The guy running it is a tool. 

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2016, 10:42:29 AM »
I think "veto gunmageddon's" distribution was flawed with the piggiback measures.  They should have distributed pdf's for people to print themselves and collect signatures.  I know for a fact I could have gotten more friends to sign by taking my own home printed paper to their house to solicit their signatures.  Many people just weren't willing to take the time out of their day to visit a gun store and sign a bunch of petitions.  They weren't even going to let Bass Pro distribute only the 2A related ballot measures alone, it was all or nothing.  The guy running it is a tool.

You are not allowed to just let people print PDF's. there are rules on signture gathering that are state laws. But, I do think they should have encouraged more training and giving out of the petitions. It was easy for me to get a petition to take home, but you DO need to drive down and get an official state sanctioned one, and you DO need to have "training" and witness correctly (and gunmageddon had an online short training video on their site, I watched it...) SO, you had to contact your counties coordinator and he could make sure you knew how to legally get the signatures.

The other petitions were stupid. We did it like this, we told people we had 7 gun rights petitions, then 2 more that werent related that we would tell them about when they were done. We would have a clipboard with the 7 gun related, one below the other, so they could "quickly" sign those, and then we (usually) would tell them about the other 2, which most wouldnt want to bother with as they were done signing and only cared about the gun rights, which makes sense. I absolutely did NOT like that we had piggback measures. I was not encouraging of people to have to sign them either. I think they were flawed issues.

 But, I do not think that is why we didnt mke the goal. We just didnt have people help get signatures. You just said you thought it was too much trouble to contact your counties coordinator to pick up a petition to take around to your circle of aquaintances. Multiply that by XXX and so, yes, we didnt get enough. I can tell you, it is easy to leave 2 petitions off yoru clipboard when you go to the range or the office or around your neighborhood

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2016, 10:51:40 AM »
found it. Here are the numbers for my county:

------ County signature totals:

AB1135 1,523
AB1446. 1,436
SB1235. 1,466
SB880. 1,508
AB1695. 1,427
AB1511. 1,411
AB857. 1,472

so, 700(we had 2 locations) x 500 (locations in state)= 350000        If all other signature gathering locations were as proactive, maybe we would not have qualifiied, but maybe we would have, it would have been close  --- And, this is NOT a gun rights supporting county at all. Not a place where you would get traction at a table in front of the grocery store.....

We were hoping for 2,000, obviously. And, if a few more people would have pitched in, maybe taken a clipboard home for the weekend, or  ..... I think we could have. People were too complacent

As for the other 2 petions, the one for being able to do these legal petitions on lne was middling popular, and about half of the gun rights supporters signed it. The other one, which is not an issue that should be a voter initiative, did not do well
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 10:58:54 AM by mountainmoma »

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2016, 10:58:07 AM »
found it. Here are the numbers for my county:

------ County signature totals:

AB1135 1,523
AB1446. 1,436
SB1235. 1,466
SB880. 1,508
AB1695. 1,427
AB1511. 1,411
AB857. 1,472.

+1 karma for getting off couch!

Even though it failed to make ballot status, i am sure a lot of networking took place between neighbors.  Oftentimes that is more valuable than the ballot petition itself.


Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2016, 07:03:08 PM »
Here's a link to the semiauto centerfire rifle inventory from a major SoCal firearms retailer:  https://www.turners.com/guns-rifles-semi-auto/browse/price/500-or-more/page/1

Two weeks ago.....pages and pages of the previously CA legal "bullet button" AR variants from all the major manufacturers, plus multi-thousand dollar SCARs, and such.

Now.....only Mini's and M1A's. 

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2017, 09:39:25 PM »
I didn't realize the new law was so invasive....
  • Ammunition Licenses:  Beginning on July 1, 2018 anyone in California that wishes to purchase, sell, or transfer ammunition must pay to obtain an ammunition purchasing permit....  So can you not purchase ammunition, period, without a permit?
  • 500 Round Limit:  Beginning on July 1, 2018 anyone that sells over 500 rounds of ammunition in a one month period will be tracked by a DOJ database and must obtain a permit.... I buy cases all the time, when ammo is on sale.  I guess that's over for Californian's.  Does that include bricks of .22lr?
  • Transporting Ammo:  Beginning on July 1, 2018 the transportation of ammunition into California must be completed by a licensed ammunition seller.
  • Magazine Destruction:  Beginning on July 1, 2017 all magazines over 10 rounds must be destroyed, taken out of state, or surrendered.  Even previously grandfathered magazines are illegal

How can anyone but a leftist progressive want to continue to stay in California?

Offline Ms. Albatross

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2017, 10:00:20 PM »

How can anyone but a leftist progressive want to continue to stay in California?

Someone who hasn't found an economically feasible way to leave yet.  (that would be me.   :'()

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2017, 11:01:25 PM »
I didn't realize the new law was so invasive....
  • Ammunition Licenses:  Beginning on July 1, 2018 anyone in California that wishes to purchase, sell, or transfer ammunition must pay to obtain an ammunition purchasing permit....  So can you not purchase ammunition, period, without a permit?
  • 500 Round Limit:  Beginning on July 1, 2018 anyone that sells over 500 rounds of ammunition in a one month period will be tracked by a DOJ database and must obtain a permit.... I buy cases all the time, when ammo is on sale.  I guess that's over for Californian's.  Does that include bricks of .22lr?
  • Transporting Ammo:  Beginning on July 1, 2018 the transportation of ammunition into California must be completed by a licensed ammunition seller.
  • Magazine Destruction:  Beginning on July 1, 2017 all magazines over 10 rounds must be destroyed, taken out of state, or surrendered.  Even previously grandfathered magazines are illegal

How can anyone but a leftist progressive want to continue to stay in California?
Well, that will probably end the odd state of affairs that some matches are still held in California.  If you can't drive in with your ammo and you can't purchase it from the store...

I am beginning to think the whole boycott and leave thing was emotionally satisfying in the short term and  necessary for certain folks, but in the long term we have very populous areas that are being ceded to the enemy and gives them a lawful firearms culture free zone where millions of people will grow up thinking guns are icky so they can then move to gun friendly states and "colonize" them with their gun control laws and their public sector unions and whatnot.

There has to be a way to reverse this trend in CA.  Marijauna legalization and homosexual rights are progressive causes (and yes libertarian, etc, causes) that have been slowly but nearly unstoppably building.  However, one super trendy progressive cause that has largely been stagnant or even retrograding is gun control.  I think that is because it isn't progressivism that is winning, it is freedom.  People simply don't want to be told what they can and cant do even if they don't want to do it themselves.

There has got to be a way.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2017, 08:48:08 AM »
Well, that will probably end the odd state of affairs that some matches are still held in California.  If you can't drive in with your ammo and you can't purchase it from the store.

This was the big brouhaha with Kim Rhode at the olympics.  She is a six time olympic medalist, six time national champion shooter and holds the world record in skeet.  Unfortunately she lives in Califirnia. The Obama administration didnt appreciate her openess in interviews that with the new law she will probably have to either move or retire from the sport. She was pretty much blacklisted by the mainstream media networks in response. She reportedly shoots  a quarter to a full milion rounds a year.  So she would have to have once a day or maybe even multiple times a day background checks.  Some have estimated that they would have to asign one officer just for her to run background checks, maintain paperwork, and do the mandated followups on large quantity purchases.  That is how absured the law is.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2017, 12:19:03 PM »
This was the big brouhaha with Kim Rhode at the olympics.  She is a six time olympic medalist, six time national champion shooter and holds the world record in skeet.  Unfortunately she lives in Califirnia. The Obama administration didnt appreciate her openess in interviews that with the new law she will probably have to either move or retire from the sport. She was pretty much blacklisted by the mainstream media networks in response. She reportedly shoots  a quarter to a full milion rounds a year.  So she would have to have once a day or maybe even multiple times a day background checks.  Some have estimated that they would have to asign one officer just for her to run background checks, maintain paperwork, and do the mandated followups on large quantity purchases.  That is how absured the law is.

That is interesting  -- never thought of the personell issue. Most people I have heard mention it at all in CA have said they would not comply with any of it, but this angle that we would actually OVERWHELM the system is interesting -- I do not think that anyone ran the numbers on how much ammo is bought and how much of a system would need to be in place if everyone played by the new rules

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2017, 02:15:09 PM »
She has been pretty feisty about it. Check out the twitter exchange between her and the governor:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article104980926.html

Apparently he didn't know that Olympic shooters practice on private ranges (some owning their own) and get the ammo provided by sponsors rather then buying them a box at a time.  She is sponsored by Winchester.  Just think of what a half million rounds or so of ammo each year would cost if she had to buy them at a range!

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2017, 04:42:20 PM »
That is interesting  -- never thought of the personell issue. Most people I have heard mention it at all in CA have said they would not comply with any of it,

Once they go after ammo purchases, how do you avoid complying?  You either change your buying practices by not buying much (they win) or you get tracked by the DOJ (they win).

Apparently he didn't know that Olympic shooters practice on private ranges (some owning their own) and get the ammo provided by sponsors rather then buying them a box at a time.  She is sponsored by Winchester. 

Wouldn't this be considered a "transfer" and subject to a permit, as well as scrutiny if more than 500 rounds were transferred at a time?

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2017, 05:07:16 PM »
Once they go after ammo purchases, how do you avoid complying?  You either change your buying practices by not buying much (they win) or you get tracked by the DOJ (they win).

Wouldn't this be considered a "transfer" and subject to a permit, as well as scrutiny if more than 500 rounds were transferred at a time?

Well, the unsaid part of non-compliance on ammo laws is group out of state buys, driven back to CA. There seems to be alot of grumbling people who claim that they would rather do it illegally like that than to comply. I am not advocating any illegal activity, just saying. Also, people have been buying ahead, big time, if they have the funds. SO, lets say a person who might use 5k rounds of 9mm in training a year goes and buys 10k rounds before July to just not think about it for a few years. The people who can afford to do this are pinning hopes on legal challenges changing the law before they have to make difficult choices.

But, by doing this, it is going to make the State think their program is working well. I rather like the idea of overwhelming the system, but, there can't be an organization of this either way, as no-one can talk openly too much about laws and complying or not complying. SO, my small efforts to BUY to overwhelm, as I am not a large user, wouldnt do much on its own,,,,,

As far as I can tell, most people in this area of CA buy ammo mail order right now, and this is going to realy impact both the buyers and online sellers. There are ver few brick and mortar stores that sell ammo, and they dont carry much.

Another way that some may be getting around this is by reloading their own training ammo. I wouldnt be surprised to see non-compliance by a large uptick in home reloading.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 05:13:45 PM by mountainmoma »

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2017, 10:00:31 PM »
Another way that some may be getting around this is by reloading their own training ammo. I wouldnt be surprised to see non-compliance by a large uptick in home reloading.

There is always a smart work-around.  Same as how Trump keeps from paying taxes....  If there's a loop-hole, why not use it?

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2017, 01:39:54 PM »
If I lived someplace with both the ammo and firearm restrictions, I'd get setup with lever guns and lead casting.
eBay is a plentiful source of cast lead ingots shipped for < $2/lbs.  You can theoretically smelt you own from wheel weights and other industrial scrap, but that's difficult, time consuming and honestly very toxic.

Are there restrictions about personally transporting reloading components over state lines?  When I visit rural OR, I stock up on powder/primers at Bi-Mart as there's no state sales tax.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2017, 01:45:22 PM »

Are there restrictions about personally transporting reloading components over state lines?  When I visit rural OR, I stock up on powder/primers at Bi-Mart as there's no state sales tax.

No. That will come in 2 or 3 years when they talk about "loopholes" to current law, even though the drug addicts and gang bangers will be using illegally bought commercial ammo and wont be reloading

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2017, 02:38:33 PM »
Thankfully the progressives in our government haven't realized that the best way to control firearms is to highly limit the availability of ammo and the easiest way to do that would be to regulate powder and primers to their extinction, or at the very least to make it unaffordable to the common person.  They wouldn't have to touch the 2nd Amendment to do that, either...  I can't be the only one to have thought of that, which leads me to believe that all this gun legislation is just hyperbole meant to appease the sheeple.

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2017, 02:43:45 PM »
Thankfully the progressives in our government haven't realized that the best way to control firearms is to highly limit the availability of ammo and the easiest way to do that would be to regulate powder and primers to their extinction, or at the very least to make it unaffordable to the common person.  They wouldn't have to touch the 2nd Amendment to do that, either...  I can't be the only one to have thought of that, which leads me to believe that all this gun legislation is just hyperbole meant to appease the sheeple.



Offline xxdabroxx

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2017, 03:03:28 PM »
Reloading components were originally included in this round but if I remember correctly it was removed.  I fully plan to stock up this coming year on ammo and then swap to components from there. 

I do like the idea of overwhelming the system, but I'd rather have as little exposure to the man as possible.