Author Topic: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law  (Read 30009 times)

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #60 on: January 03, 2017, 03:11:26 PM »


That's an easy work-around....  make your own bullets.  The powder and primers aren't so easy to work-around though.

Offline Ms. Albatross

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #61 on: January 03, 2017, 03:12:32 PM »

I do like the idea of overwhelming the system, but I'd rather have as little exposure to the man as possible.

Ditto

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #62 on: January 03, 2017, 03:13:29 PM »
Reloading components were originally included in this round but if I remember correctly it was removed.  I fully plan to stock up this coming year on ammo and then swap to components from there. 

I do like the idea of overwhelming the system, but I'd rather have as little exposure to the man as possible.

WRT components, with a bit of planning you can choose components that are usable across cartridges.

Primers are cheap, but expensive to ship.  Retail, I can get qty 1000 for around $35 inc. sales tax. So $100 gets me almost 3000 primers
While there are different primer types (match grade, magnum, etc.) if you stick with: small pistol, large pistol, small rifle, large rifle - you will have 90%+ off all cartridges covered.
You *can* use regular pistol primers in cartridges with the word "magnum".

Anyhow,  for my money I'd rather have the option to load 1000 rounds in any cartridge, than physically have 333 each across 3 cartridges.  Do a bit of recipe logistics and you'll find more of these options.

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #63 on: January 03, 2017, 03:14:09 PM »
Reloading components were originally included in this round but if I remember correctly it was removed.  I fully plan to stock up this coming year on ammo and then swap to components from there.

For those that stock up on silver and gold as a resolve to possible economic collapse, I say that ammo would be worth more than either.  ;)

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #64 on: January 03, 2017, 03:22:31 PM »
WRT components, with a bit of planning you can choose components that are usable across cartridges.

Primers are cheap, but expensive to ship.  Retail, I can get qty 1000 for around $35 inc. sales tax. So $100 gets me almost 3000 primers
While there are different primer types (match grade, magnum, etc.) if you stick with: small pistol, large pistol, small rifle, large rifle - you will have 90%+ off all cartridges covered.
You *can* use regular pistol primers in cartridges with the word "magnum".

Anyhow,  for my money I'd rather have the option to load 1000 rounds in any cartridge, than physically have 333 each across 3 cartridges.  Do a bit of recipe logistics and you'll find more of these options.

for newbies, it would be great to see a thread, all in one place, in the reload area here for possible shopping list of best compnents to do just this, that way when one of us is hypothetically at a store that sells without incurring shipping costs, we could buy the correct versital powder and primers -- Maybe yourself and Carl or others who know reload real well can put together recommends for stocking up....

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2017, 04:52:23 PM »
for newbies, it would be great to see a thread, all in one place, in the reload area here for possible shopping list of best compnents to do just this, that way when one of us is hypothetically at a store that sells without incurring shipping costs, we could buy the correct versital powder and primers -- Maybe yourself and Carl or others who know reload real well can put together recommends for stocking up....

I may do some homework and write that up.

Here's a related article that could be of interest.

http://survivalcache.com/gun-reloading-rcbs-reloading-supplies-survival/

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2017, 07:37:48 PM »
I just made my first 2017 BulkAmmo.com purchase today, and hope to continue laying in a couple thousand rounds per month for as long as they'll keep shipping it out to me.  The clock is ticking here in California, we gotta make hay while the sun still shines.


Question for the real gun guys out there:

     If you were me and only had a year to acquire the majority of the ammo (22, 40, 44, 308, and 12ga) you might need for the next decade, how much of each would you try to stockpile?

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2017, 01:35:46 AM »
     If you were me and only had a year to acquire the majority of the ammo (22, 40, 44, 308, and 12ga) you might need for the next decade, how much of each would you try to stockpile?




All of it.

But seriously.  It depends on what you are using it for.  For .22 I suspect you should buy all the things.  The need for .22 is nearly endless, especially since gun folk usually consume some of that .22 trying to get others into shooting.  There is nothing like avoiding politics but getting to the end of the noob's range session and saying, "Gee that brick we shot requires special permission.  What a pain."

I suppose it depends on your consumption rate and interests.  Buy what you can afford for now I guess.  Range fodder is the most important, defense ammo is pretty low density stuff.

Offline David in MN

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2017, 08:49:49 AM »
     If you were me and only had a year to acquire the majority of the ammo (22, 40, 44, 308, and 12ga) you might need for the next decade, how much of each would you try to stockpile?

Buy nothing, rent a Uhaul.

I'm only half kidding. CA firearm laws seem onerous when compared to firearm laws in most of the other states but not so much when you compare them to other CA regulations. It's a symptom, not a problem.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2017, 09:03:13 AM »
Buy nothing, rent a Uhaul.

I'm only half kidding. CA firearm laws seem onerous when compared to firearm laws in most of the other states but not so much when you compare them to other CA regulations. It's a symptom, not a problem.

At first I read your comment as "drive out of state and fill a U-Haul with contraband".

One thing I recall about CA law, was highway patrol can search your vehicle without a warrant.  When I was a college student in San Diego in the 1990s, they had DUI checkpoints, where every car on a given road could be stopped and evaluated.  If you were deemed worthy of a breathalyzer, CHP would also usually search your vehicle.  As blue and ridiculous as my state (WA) is getting, at least our state constitution prohibits road side searches without cause.

So if a CA resident hypothetically drove to a border state, stocked up at Cabela's (or wherever), I'm not confident a CHP would be prohibited from searching the U-Haul, even if no other laws were broken.

Funny thing is, 25+ years ago CA still had stupid assed laws, but residents just shrugged.  It's now coming to a head, and people are shocked.

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2017, 09:14:45 AM »
If you were me and only had a year to acquire the majority of the ammo (22, 40, 44, 308, and 12ga) you might need for the next decade, how much of each would you try to stockpile?

I guess it would depend on; what firearm you didn't care to shoot anymore [once you run out] and what trade-stock you thought was most sought after within your circles.  Do you reload?  I personally have stocked up on needed equipment and consumables to support every caliber I own.  I likely won't load every caliber as long as I can continue to buy complete rounds at reasonable prices, but I like knowing that I can support everything if the need arises.

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2017, 09:56:57 AM »
At first I read your comment as "drive out of state and fill a U-Haul with contraband".

One thing I recall about CA law, was highway patrol can search your vehicle without a warrant.  When I was a college student in San Diego in the 1990s, they had DUI checkpoints, where every car on a given road could be stopped and evaluated.  If you were deemed worthy of a breathalyzer, CHP would also usually search your vehicle.  As blue and ridiculous as my state (WA) is getting, at least our state constitution prohibits road side searches without cause.

So if a CA resident hypothetically drove to a border state, stocked up at Cabela's (or wherever), I'm not confident a CHP would be prohibited from searching the U-Haul, even if no other laws were broken.

Funny thing is, 25+ years ago CA still had stupid assed laws, but residents just shrugged.  It's now coming to a head, and people are shocked.


Don't forget the fruit and vegetable checkpoints.  I know there is at least one between Nevada and SoCal, but I would assume there are more.  They were created to stop some kind of fruit fly form hitching a ride on out of state fruit and destroying the California crops.  They are also allowed to search your vehicle, though I don't know what rules they are held to.

Offline xxdabroxx

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2017, 09:59:37 AM »
Question for the real gun guys out there:

     If you were me and only had a year to acquire the majority of the ammo (22, 40, 44, 308, and 12ga) you might need for the next decade, how much of each would you try to stockpile?

Personally I'm buying the most 22lr as it is the easiest to burn through a lot of in an afternoon.  Then I buy the next most of .223.  Our hunting regulations are getting screwed around with lead so I'm not buying a lot of hunting 12ga ammo but I do plan to stock a fair bit of defensive 12ga.  and some bird shot for clays/ hunting while it lasts. 

I'd like to have by the end of the year:

22lr >20k
45acp >5k (sounds low, but the dillon is set up for this now)
.223 >10k
38/ 357 >3k
12ga (assorted) > 2k
30-06 > 1k (mostly lead free)
44mag >500
243 > 500 (mostly lead free)
7.62x39 >2k

I might also add some 9mm in there even though there isn't one in the family, it's cheap and I'm likely to have one someday. 

If I can double these numbers that's even better as a weekend training class can burn through a lot of ammo quick.  If I start shooting IDPA/ USPSA again I'll reload for that.  I'm only talking factory ammo in the above numbers.

That being said I'm buying brass cased ammo in everything but 7.62 so I can reload it in the future (only 1 sks in the family and I like to have my own ammo so my dad cant give me a hard time, not that he really cares but still.  And I wouldn't mind having an AK someday).  I've got a dillon and my dad has a heck of a progressive shotshell loader and a rock chucker. 

also check prices on ammo supply warehouse.  I've been having good luck with them and they don't have any "won't ship to..." notices on their website.   wink wink

The MTM ammo crates Carl brought up a while back are great BTW, I got a couple for xmas and plan to buy a few more as they are already full.  The deep ones get heavy quick. 

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2017, 10:05:05 AM »
I might also add some 9mm in there even though there isn't one in the family, it's cheap and I'm likely to have one someday.

Good thought process there.

Offline xxdabroxx

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2017, 10:06:28 AM »
This is a great website for quickly checking ammo prices and availability across the web too.

https://www.wikiarms.com/

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2017, 10:35:44 AM »
Personally I'm buying the most 22lr as it is the easiest to burn through a lot of in an afternoon.  Then I buy the next most of .223.  Our hunting regulations are getting screwed around with lead so I'm not buying a lot of hunting 12ga ammo but I do plan to stock a fair bit of defensive 12ga.  and some bird shot for clays/ hunting while it lasts. 

I'd like to have by the end of the year:

22lr >20k
45acp >5k (sounds low, but the dillon is set up for this now)
.223 >10k
38/ 357 >3k
12ga (assorted) > 2k
30-06 > 1k (mostly lead free)
44mag >500
243 > 500 (mostly lead free)
7.62x39 >2k


I'm logistically and supply chain minded.  If I might offer some priority ranking:

22lr - high volume, not feasible to hand load
7.62x39 - high volume, not currently cost effective to hand load
.223 - high volume, only marginally cost effective to hand load
12ga - target loads remain dirt cheap at Wal-Mart.  Even in the biggest panics, I could find SOME 12ga
45acp - great ROI on handloading.  Cast lead works well due to low velocity
38/ 357 - great ROI on handloading.  Cast lead works for all but the hottest magnum loads.  I personally load .38spl for < $0.10 a round
30-06 - I would stock up on on 150gr projectiles, as there are numerous .30 cal cartridges that can use those bullets. 
44mag - same comments as .38/.357
243 - where I live .243 and .270 were the last remaining centerfire rounds on the shelves during panics.

Even if you have no ambitions to handload, the fact that you CAN easily produce some of those cartridges (and at a cost savings), I would push down the priority like I have above.
Also, if money is a concern, stock up on primers.  1000 primers is around $30+tax.  Get a box for small pistol, large pistol, small rifle, large rifle.   Then get a few jars of HP-38 (covers all above pistol cartridges) and IMR 4895 powder, as it covers every rifle cartridge you listed.

Bullets can be shipped without hazmat by USPS.  So private party internet transactions are still possible for projectiles.

Just my $0.02

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2017, 12:03:04 PM »
How much for 10 years depends so much on what you project to do.

If you were a guy that went to our local clubs action pistol event once a month (200-300 rounds) and practiced at the range twice on your own ( 50x2) that would be 400rounds a month ( of 9mm, 40 or 45acp) so 5,000 rounds a year. SO, 50,000 handgun training rounds for 10 years, plus some home defense rounds. That is something under $5k, worth a trip to a non-taxed state for sure.

So, I think if you are thinking 10 years, you have to think how much you train, how much you may hunt, what you want to have on hand in case of civil or home defense needs (unlikely, but possible in that time frame).


For smurf: I like your logistic and supply thinking : so, you vote for handloading 38sp, 357,44 and 45acp. And, not for .22rimfire, shotgun and .223

What about ROI on 9mm and .243 ( I know it was on the shelf in your area, but never is here) ?

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2017, 01:04:12 PM »

For smurf: I like your logistic and supply thinking : so, you vote for handloading 38sp, 357,44 and 45acp. And, not for .22rimfire, shotgun and .223

What about ROI on 9mm and .243 ( I know it was on the shelf in your area, but never is here) ?

pardon me while I think out loud here...

What I meant by ROI, was how much cheaper you can homebrew vs. buy.

Consider .223 at $6.99 for box of 20.  That seems to be about the lowest retail price I've seen locally (to me).
That's $0.35/round (before sales tax).

So for handloading to make economic sense, we must do it for some amount LESS.

Primer   $0.035
Bullet    $0.13
Powder $0.09

So without tax, shipping or hazmat, and FREE brass cases, that's $0.26 a round.

For powder, the math is as follows:
1lbs. jar priced at $25.  1lbs == 7000 grains
$25/7000 * # grains for your recipe
In the above I chose 25 grains.
A lot of pistol ammo uses only 5-10 grains depending on powder style, but most powder is sold in 1lbs. jars and costs around $25.


As an example, the same manufacturer typically sells .357 magnum for at least twice the price of 9mm.
When you add up component costs, it may take more powder for the magnum (+ $0.05), but bullet and primer costs are the same.
So you have a better margin of savings reloading .357mag over 9mm.

But if you cannot physically source ammo because it's odd ball or there's a demand crisis, most of my math is crap, and you gotta do whatever you gotta do.

Offline cpf240

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2017, 07:09:15 PM »
...
22lr - high volume, not feasible to hand load
...

There was a 22lr reloading solution at Shot Show or something similar in the last year or so. I don't think it is cost-effective though...

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2017, 11:56:08 PM »
I'd like to have by the end of the year:

22lr >20k
45acp >5k (sounds low, but the dillon is set up for this now)
.223 >10k
38/ 357 >3k
12ga (assorted) > 2k
30-06 > 1k (mostly lead free)
44mag >500
243 > 500 (mostly lead free)
7.62x39 >2k

I might also add some 9mm in there even though there isn't one in the family, it's cheap and I'm likely to have one someday. 

If I can double these numbers that's even better as a weekend training class can burn through a lot of ammo quick.  If I start shooting IDPA/ USPSA again I'll reload for that.  I'm only talking factory ammo in the above numbers.


Thanks for the sanity check.  I think our goals are fairly similar, so it's good to see someone else shooting for 5 digit numbers.  I like your idea of stocking up on 9mm even though you don't currently have anything to shoot it in.  I think I'll do the same with 9mm, as well as with .223.

I will buy all the things!

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2017, 06:43:42 AM »
If some of you in California are looking for a part time side business, you might consider ammo storage.  There is a family in Indy who sells ammo cans and desicant at our state's largest gun show.  They buy the cans on large wrapped flats and the desicant in huge containers which they repackage in smaller heat sealed packs.  They sell a ton on just a normal weekend at typical prices.  The demand in California is going to be so enormous over the next year it could conceivably cause shortages and raise prices across the entire nation.  If nothing else, consider buying your ammo cans soon to avoid paying the potential premiums.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #81 on: January 06, 2017, 08:01:39 PM »
I popped into my local gun store yesterday to gauge the mood. While the AR's are gone from behind the counter, one of the sales staff said there would be "featureless" models, minus pistol grip, flash hider, and bullet buttons, in stock by the end of the month. Great, I was hoping to finally see some Keltechs, not further neutered, and now undeniably butt ugly, ARs.

The looming ammo background check issue seemed to be more worrisome, given that it's still uncertain what the monthly purchase limit will be, with some guys concerned it may be as low as 50 rounds. Of course, they have not increased the quantity or quality of their ammo offerings, so they didn't earn any business from me.

As usual, given it's gunstore talk, it's hard to know where the truth ends and the BS begins.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #82 on: January 06, 2017, 08:54:36 PM »
I popped into my local gun store yesterday to gauge the mood. While the AR's are gone from behind the counter, one of the sales staff said there would be "featureless" models, minus pistol grip, flash hider, and bullet buttons, in stock by the end of the month. Great, I was hoping to finally see some Keltechs, not further neutered, and now undeniably butt ugly, ARs.

The looming ammo background check issue seemed to be more worrisome, given that it's still uncertain what the monthly purchase limit will be, with some guys concerned it may be as low as 50 rounds. Of course, they have not increased the quantity or quality of their ammo offerings, so they didn't earn any business from me.

As usual, given it's gunstore talk, it's hard to know where the truth ends and the BS begins.

When these ammo laws were presented, I dont remember there being any talk of a monthly limit ! Can they "sneak" in changes like that ?

I also thought, that all that needed to happen to make a semi-auto not an assault weapon, was to not have any of the "bad" features plus a removeable magazine, so the magazine can be fully removeable and no features -- which is what they say they will be carrying ? -- or have features ( pistol grip, adjustable stock, etc...) and a fixed magazine -- so, no fixed magazines ?  One of the guys at the range was talking about an old AR type he used to have here, before bullet buttons were invented, that had a pin you pulled to open it up (disassemble in legal terms) to add ammo from top and it didnt even take too long

What they were mostly talking about was family transferring AR types to 18yo offspring before June, so if it is an AR, newly classified as assault weapon now, and the kid turns 18 by ( some date, his kid was turning 18 in march or may) they would transfer the weapon now, while it is still possible. Otherwise, all register "assault weapons" after this magic date cannot be transferred to family later
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 09:06:19 PM by mountainmoma »

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #83 on: January 06, 2017, 08:59:06 PM »
When these ammo laws were presented, I dont remember there being any talk of a monthly limit ! Can they "sneak" in changes like that ?

Monthly limits will likely be imposed by the retailers to insure everyone gets a fair chance to buy ammo, that will surely be in limited supply due to increased sales.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2017, 09:07:22 PM »
Monthly limits will likely be imposed by the retailers to insure everyone gets a fair chance to buy ammo, that will surely be in limited supply due to increased sales.

Demand  will not increase when we have to be background checked to buy it, it will decrease

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #85 on: January 06, 2017, 09:10:58 PM »
When these ammo laws were presented, I dont remember there being any talk of a monthly limit ! Can they "sneak" in changes like that ?

I didn't recall a specific quantity either. Of course the guy talking about the 50 round limit stated his solution was buying reloading supplies, which aren't subject to this regulation, as far as I know, instead of hoarding the manufactured stuff while he still can.

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #86 on: January 06, 2017, 09:34:21 PM »
Demand  will not increase when we have to be background checked to buy it, it will decrease

I would expect it to increase before the ban in July of 2018.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #87 on: January 06, 2017, 09:54:40 PM »
I would expect it to increase before the ban in July of 2018.

There is no muying limit right now, the gun store guy was talking about how he "heard" that the new law will include a limit, so there is no monthly limit right now. And, most people here buy online right now

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2017, 11:02:13 PM »
I also thought, that all that needed to happen to make a semi-auto not an assault weapon, was to not have any of the "bad" features plus a removeable magazine, so the magazine can be fully removeable and no features -- which is what they say they will be carrying ? -- or have features ( pistol grip, adjustable stock, etc...) and a fixed magazine -- so, no fixed magazines ?

Until I see one of these featureless things show up in Turner's weekly ads, it's all speculation. But knowing how much money manufacturers made from skirting previous law, it just might be true.

Offline xxdabroxx

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Re: CA Governor signs gun control bills into law
« Reply #89 on: January 09, 2017, 09:59:22 AM »
A local gunshop had featureless rifles on his shelves Jan. 1 (he's always been on the leading edge of this stuff, USPSA guy).  It is basically a kydex wrap around the pistol grip so you cant put your thumb behind, a fixed stock, and a compensator rather than a flash hider.  Then you get a detachable magazine that can legally use your *still* legally owned hi cap mags.  You basically make your AR into the legal equivalent of a Mini-14.  When I get around to finishing my 80% that is the route I will go. 

There is also a new bullet button that works by using a "leg" that contacts the upper until it is hinged open then allowing you to drop the mag without the use of a tool. 

I won't be registering any rifles or pistols under their new law.  They can pound sand.

There is also a law firm putting out a free webinar about the new regs tomorrow at lunch:  https://cc.readytalk.com/registration/#/?meeting=ji5vd30qx6h6&campaign=xoromvmjw2f2