The Survival Podcast Forum

Finance and Economics => The Money Board => Economic News, the Global Economy and all Things Monetary => Topic started by: cubancaucasian on January 06, 2011, 09:09:10 AM

Title: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: cubancaucasian on January 06, 2011, 09:09:10 AM
Read it and weep - literally!


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.24aed2d4393365e0c8062dcc2cd184cf.791&show_article=1 (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.24aed2d4393365e0c8062dcc2cd184cf.791&show_article=1)

He's asking for more credit! And the numb-skulls (being nice here...) in the Fed are going to continue with QE.

Do you think this is an honest attempt to bring us down from within? I do! It's impossible to think otherwise
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: Roknrandy on January 06, 2011, 09:21:26 AM
Read it and weep - literally!


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.24aed2d4393365e0c8062dcc2cd184cf.791&show_article=1 (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.24aed2d4393365e0c8062dcc2cd184cf.791&show_article=1)

He's asking for more credit! And the numb-skulls (being nice here...) in the Fed are going to continue with QE.

Do you think this is an honest attempt to bring us down from within? I do! It's impossible to think otherwise

Nope, they are doing what they always do. Someone blind folds them and has them walk through a mine field telling them "don't worry about it, we know what were doing"   :(
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: cubancaucasian on January 06, 2011, 10:01:44 AM
Nope, they are doing what they always do. Someone blind folds them and has them walk through a mine field telling them "don't worry about it, we know what were doing"   :(

Actually, the blindfold is on us!
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: Mr. Bill on January 06, 2011, 10:18:32 AM
He's asking for more credit! And the numb-skulls (being nice here...) in the Fed are going to continue with QE.

Not gonna argue with the "numb-skulls" description. 8)

But "It's started!" is really the wrong title for this thread.  Should be "It's continuing!" or maybe just "BOHICA!"

The debt ceiling was increased in Feb 2010, Dec 2009, Feb 2009, Oct 2008, Jun 2008, etc etc etc.  (See the table in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Debt_ceiling).)  So, although this is bad news, it's nothing new.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: joeinwv on January 06, 2011, 10:29:21 AM
There was just an election - looks like we got exactly what we voted for...

"MORE OF THE SAME!" "MORE OF THE SAME!" "MORE OF THE SAME!"

But at least all the Fox News fans get to think "their side" won for a few weeks.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: tamo42 on January 06, 2011, 11:45:46 AM
After reading the topic of this thread, I literally thought to myself, "How is this different than every other time?"
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: Artos on January 06, 2011, 03:00:16 PM
Boehner has said he wont do it...we shall see.  He can ask all day long, the House holds the purse strings...if they have the balls to do something with them.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: tamo42 on January 06, 2011, 03:28:49 PM
Geithner's statement is correct though in saying that if they don't, the US will default. What he leaves unspoken is that borrowing more and inflating is just another, less obvious form of default. But it's less obvious, so better for the gov.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: Greywolf27 on January 06, 2011, 04:09:49 PM
Boehner has said he wont do it...we shall see.  He can ask all day long, the House holds the purse strings...if they have the balls to do something with them.

the American people seem to have voted for a bigger set on those on the Hill... we shall see if they do.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: cubancaucasian on January 06, 2011, 10:09:55 PM
the American people seem to have voted for a bigger set on those on the Hill... we shall see if they do.

Yeah, well...
The new republicans say that the debt ceiling should in fact be raised.

SSDD

http://www.cnbc.com/id/40956430 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/40956430)
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: smajda on January 06, 2011, 10:12:36 PM
Rand Paul was on Beck on monday (glennbeckclips.com) talking to Judge Napolitano about how he would only vote for it if its attached to a balanced budget amendment.  I have more hope for the freshmen, but if I see them cave this early, that will be really upsetting.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: akdentist on January 08, 2011, 12:21:21 AM
The R's will cave and vote for this.  It does not need more than a majority to pass and so only some of the old guard and RINO's need vote with the D's to get this through.  Nothing will change in D.C.  The Kaynesians are firmly in control and their mantra is that more gov't spending is needed and thus the need for a bigger debt ceiling.  This won't be news for long.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: Greywolf27 on January 08, 2011, 12:47:57 AM
It won't be news... until the debt is called upon to be paid....

I just hope they hold off long enough for me to get my BOL secured and stocked....  >:(
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: akdentist on January 08, 2011, 01:06:45 AM
It won't be news... until the debt is called upon to be paid....

I just hope they hold off long enough for me to get my BOL secured and stocked....  >:(
They will repay the debt with dollars that are printed for that purpose.  Who is buying the debt now?  The Fed.  Most of the debt being bought is refinancing of old debt.  So in effect, they are now monetizing the bonds that were sold years ago as well as the new debt. 
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: metaforge on January 10, 2011, 03:26:58 PM
Link to the actual letter here: http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Documents/Letter.pdf (http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Documents/Letter.pdf)

While I agree raising the ceiling has happened before, I expect, though don't know for sure, that the text of Geithner's letter is probably something new.  His explicit listing of the "devastating consequences" of not raising the ceiling would seem to imply that they finally feel like there is enough debate on the matter of whether to raise or not that they have to explicitly make a case.

Turning point?  Maybe... a small glimmer that at least there's debate now perhaps?

Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: akdentist on January 10, 2011, 03:36:48 PM
Link to the actual letter here: http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Documents/Letter.pdf (http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Documents/Letter.pdf)

While I agree raising the ceiling has happened before, I expect, though don't know for sure, that the text of Geithner's letter is probably something new.  His explicit listing of the "devastating consequences" of not raising the ceiling would seem to imply that they finally feel like there is enough debate on the matter of whether to raise or not that they have to explicitly make a case.

Turning point?  Maybe... a small glimmer that at least there's debate now perhaps?


I agree that the fact that the Tea Party people are bringing this to the level of a debate is good.  Unfortunately, we are too far down the road of insolvency far this level of debate to make any difference.  There are more now in power that talk like they get it, but not nearly enough to actually change enough to fix this problem.  The only two options are default on the debt and change the liabilities [entitlement programs] or print more money to continue to pay these debts.  In the history of the world, every government that has faced this devalues their currency until they are forced to default.  I think our political class will do the same and every move they make supports this.

Cheers.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: metaforge on January 10, 2011, 04:30:52 PM
Yup, agreed.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: cubancaucasian on January 11, 2011, 01:23:53 PM
The problem as I see it is that we indeed have only 2 options: default or devalue.
If we default, we take a huge financial hit, but we could potnentially rebound from it. If we devalue, we slowly belled to death.

On a devaule scenario, we all lose. Nobody can recover from that.

I have 2 little kids. These things scare me because I'm very coincerned with the world they will inherit.
Title: Re: It's started! Timothy Geithner has asked Congress to lift the debt celing
Post by: akdentist on January 11, 2011, 02:02:45 PM
The problem as I see it is that we indeed have only 2 options: default or devalue.
If we default, we take a huge financial hit, but we could potnentially rebound from it. If we devalue, we slowly belled to death.

On a devaule scenario, we all lose. Nobody can recover from that.

I have 2 little kids. These things scare me because I'm very coincerned with the world they will inherit.

I was in a panic 3 years ago.  Lost sleep, couldn't eat, the whole panic scenario.  I am feeling pretty confident now, but would still like to see another 5-10 years before we see hyperinflation kick in.  Ask yourself what is the worst thing that can happen?  All money loses its value and for a short time, we have to barter, but even in Zimbabwe, that has not happened.  Even in a TSHTF scenario, people will rise to the occasion and help each other out.  If you look at every country that has devalued their currency, eventually they all get to the point of default - the creditor nations stop lending, the country cuts back on its budget, raises taxes and issues a new currency.  Things eventually settle down and those that lost everything begin to rebuild.  Those that played it smart, or lucky, will live much more comfortable lives.  I think the key now is to move any savings you have into inflation-proof investments, reduce your lifestyle and focus on the basics.  Sell the things you don't need and reinvest in silver or build up your food preps.  craigslist is a great way to get rid of the excess - I sold $6K worth of stuff laying around my place last summer and am looking to do the same again. 

This is not uncharted territory we are moving into... just the scope of the problem is much bigger.

Cheers.