The Survival Podcast Forum

Finance and Economics => The Money Board => Economic News, the Global Economy and all Things Monetary => Topic started by: chickchoc on February 29, 2012, 03:13:53 PM

Title: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: chickchoc on February 29, 2012, 03:13:53 PM
Here's a slice of w(h)ine to go with the cheese---

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html

I love how this man complains about having 3 kids in private school, a summer cottage in Connecticut and he doesn't make enough. 
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: archer on February 29, 2012, 03:38:40 PM
what a jackass!!!
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: archer on February 29, 2012, 03:55:53 PM
Want to email the guy in the article?
   Name:    Andrew Schiff    
     Title:    Director of Communications & Marketing    
     Company:    Euro Pacific Capital    
     Location:    New York City    
     Email:    aschiff@europac.net    
     Phone:    (800) 727-7922
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: cdhm22 on February 29, 2012, 03:56:23 PM
I still believe no matter how much money you make you are the only person that makes you happy. As they go up in salary so does their spending habits. I know people at the factory I work at that are the exact same way. Just goes to show if you work hard to find your tenets and your own way of being happy without all that crap you can be happier just covering your expenses than making millions of dollars.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: endurance on February 29, 2012, 03:57:52 PM
You know, I get it and I don't get it.  On the one hand I get his point that $350k in New York is not enough to buy him the lifestyle he thought it would buy and that many things from his father's generation that were affordable, like a four bedroom house in Brooklyn and a good education that will get your kids into an Ivy League school, simply aren't affordable at that price anymore.  On the other hand, how out of touch do you have to be to go public with those feelings when you're basically a marketing consultant for your brother's company and basically just carelessly tossed a match on what is already a gasoline soaked landscape ready to ignite in class warfare?  Seriously, do you think Schiff's investors (folks who have millions to invest, not working folks with a 401k) are happy that this article is popping up everywhere in the blogosphere as a prime example of just how out of touch the rich are?

Piss-poor judgement, but a realistic observation that what was rich 20 years ago isn't rich anymore.  Everything he's talking about was completely affordable on $150k in 1990, but due to population growth, inflation and the bubbles in real estate and other assets, it's not affordable anymore at twice the price.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Malamute on February 29, 2012, 04:08:17 PM
He doesn't produce anything, nor is the "service" he's providing adding value for his customers.

He should feel grateful for making minimum wage, much less 350K.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: nkawtg on February 29, 2012, 05:25:12 PM
I get how he feels trapped. He's accumulated so much debt he is trapped in his job. The more you make, the more you spend, it's that simple. He isn't a jerk just because he earns more than you. He wasn't lucky or fortunate, he worked hard for what he's making and I don't envy him for that, he earned it.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Morning Sunshine on February 29, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
I pity him.  350k and he cannot make ends meet.  really, it is too bad.

he is trapped in the same consumer market as my brother who only makes 1/7 of that.  both have been consumer-ized to need a certain amount of stuff.  a certain kind of vehicle.  a certain amount of things - big tvs, activities and "educational opportunities" for the kids, matching dishes, entertainment.
the difference is the price of those things.  my brother would not be able to live on 350 a year either.  his "needs" would go up with the take home.

it is all about you, and being content with what you have, not what "they" say you should have.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: excaliber on February 29, 2012, 05:51:34 PM
it's not what you make, it's what you spend,
 most people adjust to their income over time, you make more so you drive a new car, get a raise, buy a nicer home, and you end up living paycheck to paycheck.

you have to learn the discipline to be happy with yourself and what you have, this takes time, I'm still working on it.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Cedar on February 29, 2012, 07:17:30 PM
I pity him.  350k and he cannot make ends meet.  really, it is too bad.

Give me $350K year and I could do alot for alot of people and more. Oh.. wait... just $350K once. $350K a year is way more than I require.

Cedar
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: FreeLancer on February 29, 2012, 09:44:50 PM
I wonder what Peter Schiff (the libertarian-ish champion of Austrian Economics) thinks about his douche-bag brother vomiting up this kind of crap for all the world to see? 

Seriously, for people with his mindset no amount of income will keep up with their desires.  The guy needs to do some serious soul searching and quit trying to live up to perceived expectations.  Man-up and take the road less traveled, the scenery is a hell-of-a-lot better and you'll have less regret when you're gasping your last breath.

Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: chickchoc on March 02, 2012, 08:37:05 PM
I noticed today that the man complained his comments were taken out of context by the reporter.   
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Morning Sunshine on March 03, 2012, 07:23:25 AM
I noticed today that the man complained his comments were taken out of context by the reporter.

really?  this surprised him?  a MSM reporter taking comments out of context?   ::)  remind me to NEVER talk to reporters without my own camera running for a youtube video of my own.

the guy who shot his 15-yo laptop after a facebook posting was smart that way.  he refused to talk to the press, and answered any questions on his facebook page so nothing was taken "out of context"
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: FreeLancer on March 03, 2012, 10:00:19 AM
I noticed today that the man complained his comments were taken out of context by the reporter.

I'd be more inclined to believe that if his job title at EuroPacific Capital wasn't the "Director of Communications and Marketing,"  this guy deals with the media every day.

This tale of upper middle class frustration seems like a good example of Jack's downward class migration concept.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Oil Lady on March 03, 2012, 10:16:39 AM
Want to email the guy in the article?
   Name:    Andrew Schiff    
     Title:    Director of Communications & Marketing    
     Company:    Euro Pacific Capital    
     Location:    New York City    
     Email:    aschiff@europac.net    
     Phone:    (800) 727-7922

Is that Peter Schiff's son??   :o   Or maybe his brother??  :o

THE Peter Schiff??  :o :o :o



Peter Schiff was a consultant to Ron Paul for years! And yet this is what one of his relatives AND a company employee has to say??  :o :o :o :o :o :o

Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: cheryl1 on March 03, 2012, 11:05:57 AM
I can understand feeling trapped no matter how much you make. When we were still deep in debt, I felt trapped at $17,000 a year. Bump up the income to $80,000, increase the debt as well= still trapped. It's more of what you do with the money, rather than how much you have.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Sister Wolf on March 03, 2012, 11:19:08 AM
Peter Schiff was a consultant to Ron Paul for years! And yet this is what one of his relatives AND a company employee has to say??  :o :o :o :o :o :o

That means absolutely nothing. I'm a responsible prepper, who has the tenacity to do what it takes to get I want.

My brother is a complete douche who would rather look for answers in the bottom of a bottle, and blame his lack of funding on every other person on the planet than take any responsibility for his life.

Don't judge a man by how his idiot brother acts.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Oil Lady on March 03, 2012, 11:36:58 AM
Don't judge a man by how his idiot brother acts.

I'm just saying how could he work there and be so dumb?

I'm not judging Peter Schiff, I'm stunned that his brother even has a job there.

Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: FreeLancer on March 03, 2012, 01:05:53 PM
That means absolutely nothing. I'm a responsible prepper, who has the tenacity to do what it takes to get I want.

My brother is a complete douche who would rather look for answers in the bottom of a bottle, and blame his lack of funding on every other person on the planet than take any responsibility for his life.

Don't judge a man by how his idiot brother acts.

True, we've all got family like that.  But would you hire your brother to be the director of marketing and communications for your company, like Peter Schiff did?
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: endurance on March 03, 2012, 02:45:01 PM
True, we've all got family like that.  But would you hire your brother to be the director of marketing and communications for your company, like Peter Schiff did?
Well, if he felt trapped making $350k, think what he'll feel like when he's collecting unemployment after this stunt. ::)
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: cheryl1 on March 03, 2012, 03:39:36 PM
Perhaps relief to be out of the rat race?
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: P_Coltrane on March 03, 2012, 05:27:56 PM
Perhaps I missed something key in the article, but why is there so much criticism for Andrew Schiff?  Where was he quoted  saying anything stupid or unreasonable?  From what I could discern from his statements, he is merely upset that his compensation on Wall St is not what he was expecting.

The scant details provided about his lifestyle do not indicate anything lavish or extravagant -- with the possible exception of the length of his vacation rental.

Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Oil Lady on March 04, 2012, 05:27:25 AM
Perhaps I missed something key in the article, but why is there so much criticism for Andrew Schiff?  Where was he quoted  saying anything stupid or unreasonable?  From what I could discern from his statements, he is merely upset that his compensation on Wall St is not what he was expecting.

The scant details provided about his lifestyle do not indicate anything lavish or extravagant -- with the possible exception of the length of his vacation rental.

Andrew Schiff is the opening interview of the article --an article which interviews SEVERAL Wall Street folks and which itemizes their many woe-is-me stories of financial "hardship" for people in the mid-six-digit salary range. Because he's the first guy to be quoted, he's going to take the brunt of the criticism. And the fact that his brother is famous around the world for financially sound advice just lends a dizzying degree of gob-smack-ed-ness to his own portion of the article.

The whole article showcases people whom I think it's very difficult to feel sorry for.

The "people just need to learn to live within their means" line has been trotted out these past three years with much finger wagging for middle class people who bought just ONE home. But when this guy claims he can barely hang on to TWO homes, that's not something to be sympathetic over. Sell the second home, dammit! Who cares if you take a loss on it. Just amputate that expense ASAP and save your primary residence and save your kids' educations.  But don't go crying poor when you own two homes.

Reduced bonuses seem to be the culprit here even though any financial adviser will tell you NOT to count on bonuses.  And yet in spiute of the fact that these guys are all money generators and numbder crunchers (and financial advisers themselves!), they are flouting that very sound advice against ever making bonuses into one's primary income. The sad reality is that if you structure your budget to where bonuses are essential to keep the budget balanced, you either need to reduce your expenses or find another job. Counting on commissions in one thing, but counting on bonuses just isn't wise.  That's why they are called "bonuses."

And if Wall Street has structured their employment models so that bonuses MUST be the primary source of income (not commissions but bonuses!), then Wall Street has allowed itself to go thoroughly FUBAR and so it likely needs a major overhauling. This current system of bonuses just needs to go and should NOT be rescued or "bailed out." It just needs to go.


Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Oil Lady on March 04, 2012, 05:47:28 AM
Check out the Twitter comments.

http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Ffinance.yahoo.com%2Fnews%2Fbonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html




Bonus Withdrawal Puts Bankers in "Malaise" - Yahoo! Finance http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html via @YahooFinance


not an onion article: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html


My heart positively bleeds... "People who don't have money don't understand the stress" http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html via @piombo


Money's too tight to mention http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html


Wow. Reading this article you'd think it belonged in The Onion. But it's legit, sadly. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html


Rich people make me laugh, check this Guy out >> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html ..I hope that article was written for comedic purposes.


Discount salmon! Public school?! Missing your bro judge a sweet wet T-shirt contest! It's hard out there for a broker. http://yhoo.it/zUuyBn


Woe are the bankers! Bonus Withdrawal Puts Bankers in "Malaise" - Yahoo! Finance http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html via @YahooFinance


I had to check the date to make sure this wasn't an April Fool's story.


This reads like the Onion. But it's actually a Wall Street sympathy piece. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html


Anyone in your life who really doesn't get the 1%/99% divide? Plz share this with them. http://yhoo.it/zUuyBn Then urge them to get involved!


The NYC he wants is still just out of reach! I can barely comprehend his personal tragedy.


Wanna hate a bunch of bankers even more? Here's an article where they whine about not making as much as they used to: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html


Bonus Withdrawal Puts Bankers in "Malaise" http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html via @YahooFinance / $350k per year. Can't put child through private school.


"People who don't have $ don't understand the stress," said Alan Dlugash, a partner Marks Paneth & Shron http://yhoo.it/xJWbt5


as much as we get on athletes for their spending can we take a look at Wall Street please... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html


"People who don't have money don't understand the stress" http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html (via @calebelston)


How tone deaf are these Wall Street people? They have no idea how obnoxious they sound: http://yhoo.it/xJWbt5


Yeah, not crying. RT @Dave_White Awwww, poor baby. Does this guy actually think we're going to have sympathy for him? http://yhoo.it/xJWbt5


Poor little uber-wealthy people->RT @onlinepastrychf: I promised I would try not to say anything mean. So, no comment. http://bit.ly/wIGG5d

cry me a river;
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Dainty on March 18, 2012, 02:17:04 PM
The crux of the issue is mentioned in the article:

"Richard Scheiner, 58, a real-estate investor and hedge-fund manager, said most people on Wall Street don't save."

"Michael Sonnenfeldt said...most with a net worth of at least $10 million, have been forced to "reexamine lots of assumptions about how grand their life would be.""

That's it. They thought being rich meant a certain level of grandeur, and they're disappointed that isn't the case due to changing factors that are generally beyond the ken of those without millions.

I have to say I'm bothered reading some of these comments. It isn't that I don't understand people being frustrated when they're trying to put food on the table and read a piece where those who can afford lavish comforts are complaining they still don't have enough. I get it. At the same time, I tend to live by the principle that everyone struggles in one way or another and most of the time it's both unkind and inappropriate to weigh and compare logistics in order to invalidate another's sincere struggle.

If it isn't too off topic I'd like to use an example I'm most familiar with: health. I have extremely severe chronic health issues to a level beyond what most people realize is possible. When people begin to understand this, it starts to become very difficult for them to share their own struggles with me because I "have it so much worse" than they do. They also become hesitant to share about all the fun things they get to do as well because I can't relate to it so they feel guilty. Thus in order for me to have healthy relationships with people I've found it necessary to assure and reassure them that their suffering is just as valid as mine, and I honestly am not sitting there making comparisons I'm just listening to their hurt and sharing their burden. And that I want to hear all about the fun things they get to do because rather than resulting in envy it makes me happy to share in their joy and vicariously experience the world through their eyes. If ever I do find myself making comparisons or feeling pity then that's when I withdraw, get the support I need from those who can give it to me, and wait until I'm in a good place to engage with the world at large again. In other words I'm not above experiencing those things; I just manage them in a way that doesn't negatively impact others.

What would our culture look like if we actually applied this concept to financial means? Might those in different tax brackets actually *gasp* get along? I had a friend once whose family was quite wealthy, she was so hesitant to reveal this to me because she had experienced a lot of flak for it from bitter people. It was almost as if she expected me to reject her over it, as from her perspective it felt that our culture considers it acceptable to hate on people with money just because they're rich.

Yes, we can compare incomes and say those earning $350,000 a year have no room to complain because those with a lower income are struggling so much worse. And I could berate people for complaining over having a nasty cold. Instead I take a look at their life and realize that, for them, it's making a considerable negative impact and as I begin to understand what they're accustomed to it opens the door for empathy. Perhaps empathy is too much to ask in this case, but the mockery just doesn't sit right with me. :-\
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: cheryl1 on March 18, 2012, 02:25:55 PM
No matter who you are, it hurts a little when that dollar leaves your hand. Or never gets there in the first place.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: monkeyboyf on March 18, 2012, 08:38:05 PM
Dainty, just gave you a +1 for you wonderful post.   You lift me up everytime I read your profound insight on these issues.  Makes me ashamed for not counting my blessings and having more empathy for my fellow man.  You are an angel sent to remind us of our better nature.  We love you!
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: pokeshell on March 18, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Dainty (http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8885) +1
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Wild Colonial Boy on March 19, 2012, 07:36:58 AM
And another + one for Dainty! A great balanced post...
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Adam Campbell on March 19, 2012, 08:57:42 AM
Quote
He doesn't produce anything, nor is the "service" he's providing adding value for his customers.

He should feel grateful for making minimum wage, much less 350K.

LMFAO — I couldn't have said it better myself... +1 to that!
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Herbalpagan on March 19, 2012, 01:42:02 PM
People are always amazed when they find out that making X amount of money doesn't mean what they think it does. WE may think that's a lot of money, but it isn't.  Yound Wall Street guys forget that they still will have to put on their pants one leg at a time (by themselves) just like the farmer in the country. Young Wall Street wives are always surprised to discover that they still have to change a diaper and wipe snot of their kids face, just like the truck drivers wife.
The problem is tht they think they are making millions, they by into the "fake it till you make it" idea, they feel that they have to join the club, take lessons, go to dinner at the expensive places, get the expensive house and it will get them more money and better jobs. It's a lie. People live up to their paycheck, in general. The rich guy can get in over their head as easily as the poor guy and at $350k in NYC, he's not one of the rich guys.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: summer98 on March 20, 2012, 05:50:58 AM
Dainty, I get where you're coming from, but I can't muster any sympathy for him. When I was growing up, we were homeless on and off; I literally ate out of trash cans at times. As an adult, I've made ends meet on as little as $6k a year. In other words, I've really struggled in life at times. So when I hear someone whining about not being able to live like a rock star on (literally) 10x what K and I made pre-tax last year, I'm torn between the desire to punch the a**clown and laugh at him.

His whining -and that is what it is -feels like being kicked in the gut to someone like me. I could set his entire financial picture straight in about 30 seconds. Just give me the ledger and a pen!
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Roundabouts on March 20, 2012, 07:41:14 AM
Dainty I couldn't have said it better.  I would like to add.  I can imagine that if I was being interview and I was worried about wow now I don't have the money to buy those baby trees or fence my 5 acres.  We had expected and planned on having 20 ac.  It will be hard to tell my dogs that they will have to eat dog food because I can't afford chicken for them any more.   Or this year to cut back we will only be able to go camping for 2 weekends instead of 6.  Paying insurance on the two cars (both 10+ yrs old) is getting difficult.  I would imagine that many people would say oh stop whining at least you have 5 ac !  What 2 cars I'd kill for a bus pass!  Cooking for your DOGS WTF  I am eating out of a dumpster!   

Even when we are at the lowest of the low in our minds there is always someone who could say.  Wow whats a bus we don't even have roads.  You have food in dumpsters?  What's a dumpster?  Look at that whiner at least you have access to clean drinking water.  Those people are so spoiled they don't even have a clue as to how good they have it. 

Yes downward class migration shows no mercy it can effect us all.  Sounds to me that this guy really needs the Survival Podcast.  He could learn something from Jack & us.  So if he did show up looking for a better way would we just say oh you are not welcome because you have made too much money and wasted it?   You have acquired to much debit so we don't want your kind here?   I'd venture to say that that would not be the case.  I would hope we would welcome him with open arms.  Right now he is just another grasshopper that is possibly in the process of waking up.  The article did say he donates 100k percentage wise I can honestly say I don't donate that much.  It also said he is trying to cut back.  So he didn't fly for a weekend trip good for him.  When I had to cut back I didn't buy my weekend starbucks.  Same thing.  Just a different price /class set.   Also he said he feels trapped.  I can relate as so many who are upside down in their mortgage.  Those that want to move and get out but can't without taking a huge blow.  Those that want to move to the country but have jobs to good to leave. 

 I think it is  the debit snowball guy who says it takes about 3 yrs on average to get out of debit no matter what you make.  The ratio of debit to income is always about the same. 

So if you feel the need to email him or post a comment maybe inviting him to pop over he may learn something.   Just saying because my first knee jerk reaction was dang must be nice to have that problem.  Then I read the article again and had a shift in my thinking from a different point of view.   

Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Adam Campbell on March 20, 2012, 08:09:32 AM
I think it is EASY to get into such a high amount of debt if you make $300,000 / year that should you LOSE that level of income — well... I don't see how paying off a million dollars of debt is possible on hamburger wages!

However, I don't have any sympathy for someone who makes $300,000 / year and whines about not being able to afford private school tuition and put a new Mercedes under the Christmas tree every year. Boo F-ing Hoo.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Rorschach on March 20, 2012, 11:57:37 AM
I listen to the Peter Schiff Show frequently and he recently had his brother on due to this; Andrew also in the past hosted the show for Peter, and he seems very solid in his thinking.  Andrew feels the reporter was not very honest in the way his comments were portrayed, and that  the articles about the original article stayed even farther from reality.    I don't think he meant to complain about his income, but he did seem to want to communicate that money, does not go as far as you would expect in a high tax state like NY, and yes he does spend extra money to keep his children out of the public schools, which I think is another indication that he good priorities.  His apartment in square feet is smaller than the house I have owned when I made a 10th of what he does, and he does not have a dish washer due to space constraints.  He communicated that by no means has a rough life, but not necessarily the things that many of the people around the US or in this community would have if we had this income. 
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Adam Campbell on March 20, 2012, 12:20:47 PM
Quote
...he did seem to want to communicate that money, does not go as far as you would expect in a high tax state like NY

That ain't no joke. I can't tell you how many people I've known who left Pittsburgh or other inexpensive areas and moved to NYC making SLIGHTLY more than they currently made.

One guy I know moved to NYC and was making 55k/year. He was paying $1300/mo for a STUDIO apartment on a 5th floor WALK UP in Brooklyn. He had to sell his truck because his insurance went up to $7,000 a year — AND he would have needed to PAY SOMEONE to move it from one side of the street to the other TWICE per day to avoid getting towed and ticketed for street cleaning. He would have also needed to pay for a parking permit to park on his street.

He had to take the train every day to work while his boss drove to Manhattan every day in a Mercedes, paying $50 - $100 a day just for parking.

He lived there SIX MONTHS... Got sick of it, packed up his crap and moved back to Pittsburgh, took a $60k/yr job, bought a house, bought a new truck, and hasn't looked back since. He probably makes more now that he has been with that company for a long time.

He had to continue paying his rent in NYC for the remainder of that year because of his lease — and so he would gather his friends every weekend give or take, and drive to NYC to party all weekend — having a place to stay, until his lease was up.

I've told people, and my family that the ONLY way I could even CONSIDER moving to NYC (where there are TONS of jobs in my field) would be if I made at least $200,000 / year. I would not move there for a penny less.

The thing that boggles my mind is that the jobs I see in my field there MAYBE pay 10 - 20% more than I make here for the same thing — yet the cost of living is about 3,000% higher!

I know so many people from NYC who tell me all kinds of crazy stories because people still work for minimum wage in NYC and somehow survive!

I can't even imagine how someone working minimum wage even makes rent on a $1300/mo apartment. And THAT IS CHEAP for NYC.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: chickchoc on March 20, 2012, 05:26:16 PM
So what makes NYC so attractive that millions want to live in the city or its environs?  With ubiquitous telecommuting there is no real reason for anyone to put up with the insane and assinine cost of living there IMHO.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Roundabouts on March 20, 2012, 05:37:09 PM
I don't have any idea why?  Other than the vast sea of people makes it easy to hide in.  I guess it could make some feel safer?  I don't know just glad they want to live their that way there are not so many that want to live in the country.  More space for me.  Big cities like that make me crazy and nervous.  It's like hell on earth. 

We went to New Orleans once for a business trip after the second day I was in tears and wanted to go home.  (That is a small city compared to NY or LA)  I felt much better when we got out to the swamps.  Went on a boat ride.  What a cool place.  Wouldn't want to live there but great to visit!
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: bigbear on March 21, 2012, 11:28:23 AM
@ Adam - Some people I know moved to NYC to start their careers, slap it on the resume, and move back home.  They NYC move may not have started with that motive, but they always came back home to a higher paying job.

@ chickchoc - My guess, it's the media-driven lifestyle.  Wall Street, banks, huge accounting firms, TV stations, Broadway, huge marketing firms...  It's all about succeeding in those realms.
Then you have a ton of immigrants and sub-cultures.  NYC is home for them as there are more people with commonalities than most other places in the US.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Adam Campbell on March 21, 2012, 11:52:23 AM
Its the excitement for younger people. I grew up in the middle of nowhere, my next door neighbors were family, and all living across the cornfields from one another.

There's nothing to do but "get drunk and screw" as they say. I was out of there lickety split when I turned 18 and was done with high school.

I am 50/50 when it comes to city vs. country. The convenience, never a lack of things to do, the ability to find the things you need/want easily with multiple options, etc make the city attractive. However, being all on top of everyone else, the crime, idiots everywhere, scumbag police, being crapped on constantly by more layers of government, and the expense of it all are my reasons to hate it.

Because of my career choices, I still need to live near a city. People still expect to see you in person even though I can technically do all of my work from a tropical island if I have internet access. There are WAY more jobs for me in NYC than where I live now, even though I bet they all suck.

You won't see me moving to an lsland where I need to pay $10 - $20 whenever I want to leave or come back and then pay up to $100 / day to park my friggin car (and you will never see me living somewhere without a vehicle of my own).
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: Morning Sunshine on March 21, 2012, 12:52:19 PM
I love NYC... to visit.  as a day trip, it is a blast.  I want to take my kids to see it, and hang out there for a day or two.  there is a certain excitement to The City.  It is alive, it is vibrant, it is American.

and, call me crazy, but I love love driving in New York (maybe it is cuz every one there drives like me :P)

and, I love saying goodbye at the end of the day.  There is not enough money you could pay me to live there and raise my children there.
Title: Re: $350 K and feels "trapped"!!
Post by: LJH on March 21, 2012, 02:07:21 PM
I love NYC... to visit.  as a day trip, it is a blast.  I want to take my kids to see it, and hang out there for a day or two.  there is a certain excitement to The City.  It is alive, it is vibrant, it is American.

and, call me crazy, but I love love driving in New York (maybe it is cuz every one there drives like me :P)

and, I love saying goodbye at the end of the day.  There is not enough money you could pay me to live there and raise my children there.

This! I haven't been to NYC or New Orleans or even San Francisco in decades but for me large citys are kinda like going to the zoo, except the animals are there by choice so I don't have to feel sorry for them.