Author Topic: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?  (Read 15920 times)

Offline AZCeltic formerly occeltic

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Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« on: July 29, 2010, 07:42:03 PM »
Okay; I spent the time to learn the rules and regulations regarding the legal and proper way to use the frequencies allocated by the FCC for use by Ham operators, and I am very careful to follow what I learned. I believe by doing so, the airwaves and the conversations can have a productive and informative value that is a benefit to all that take the time and spend the money to become a part of this awesome community. What is hard to understand are those who seem bent on abusing this privilege, and in fact, seem to make a game out of being as foul and frequency hogging as possible. What I also don't understand is the lack of monitoring and enforcement of said frequencies, and in particular, a 2m repeater located in Southern California that seems to abuse and break every rule in the book. If anyone is interested, the freq. is 147.435. It is a continuous jabber of whatever clowns decide to speak up about whatever, and I just don't get it.
When I compare other repeater systems that have dedicated folks who monitor and control the activity, I wonder why the heck the operator of this repeater seems to have no control whatsoever and is allowed to operate in violation of FCC rules. Please help me to understand this! It really pisses me off! >:(

Occeltic

P.S. If I am pissed off for no reason.......please set me straight!

Offline AZCeltic formerly occeltic

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2010, 06:49:45 PM »
I'm guessing from the lack of a response to my question that this is something one just has to live with. There are plenty of other frequencies to choose from anyway right? So.....I will just move on. It would be good to hear about others experiences with this type of problem however.  :)

Occeltic

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Offline chris

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2010, 07:57:39 PM »
Plenty of jag-offs in the world. They get off on making other people mad. 

Offline Dan

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2010, 09:52:44 PM »
Not much you can do beyond filing a complaint with the FCC.

Offline joeinwv

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2010, 10:23:57 PM »
Let's see - the FCC tracks down some douche who is annoying you - takes time, effort and yields them nothing. They wait for morning zoo radio host to say 'tits' on the air and fine the station $250,000.00 - wonder which they spend most of their time on?

Offline AZCeltic formerly occeltic

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2010, 10:51:26 AM »
Thanks Chris, Dan, and Joe for comments. I have plenty of other things to worry about in life than folks who think it is entertaining to see who can be the most annoying. And certainly the FCC has bigger fish to go after and won't bother with some little guy. My guess is that it is simply understood by those who are drawn to this particular freq., that you're going to encounter conversation that you won't find elsewhere. So it it's your "thing" to be a Ham "shock jock", go for it! :)

I suppose that my newness as a Ham (Jan.'10), and the time I took to learn the rules and try to abide by the proper radio etiquette, is what causes me a bit of irritation. I enjoy good and meaningful contact with like minded operators around the country. You never know when these contacts will be needed as a good source of information when the normal channels of communication are down.

Thanks again! I'm off to worry about something else; like how much crap I have in my garage that I need to get rid of!

Occeltic

Offline Aspiring Homesteader

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2010, 11:31:30 AM »
It is a continuous jabber of whatever clowns decide to speak up about whatever, and I just don't get it.

Wait, so what is your complaint with them? That they are just continuously talking about whatever they want, or are they using profanity and the like?

Offline AZCeltic formerly occeltic

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2010, 07:16:32 PM »
Actually yes Techie, they do use profanity and tell off color jokes as well. I've got much better things to do than listen to all their crap, so I've simply moved on. If the FCC wants to address the problem, my guess is that they would go after the operator of the repeater. But as someone else on this thread stated, the FCC would rather go after bigger fish that a bunch of guys yucking' it up on one 2m freq.

Occeltic

Offline Aspiring Homesteader

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2010, 02:29:46 PM »
Gotcha, yeah I think I've only heard something like that one time around here. I was listening to some guys on the WebSDR project website and they were talking about the FCC had assigned some hams to be kind of watchdogs of the airways. You basically turn them in and the FCC will send them a nasty-gram and after so many repeat complaints then action is taken. The FCC seems to take Ham radio fairly serious IMHO. I think the ARRL always bugging them helps us a lot, which is why I'm a member.

Offline chezrad

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2010, 03:25:40 PM »
Click for guidelines concerning Amateur Radio complaints to the FCC. http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmaCmpl.html

Offline TexasScout

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 07:33:28 AM »
Most of the guys that the FCC busted took about ten years from the initial complaint to the final judgement. Wheels of government turn slow.

Offline hillclimber

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 05:48:05 PM »
The auxillary is listening to 2m around here most of the time, but there are some operators that seem to feel the need to be talking constantly too. The link system will be just as quiet as can be, someone will try to call a specific operator, and one of the usual suspects will just but in. They can be a little rude at times, but they don't violate any regs.  They're a pain in the ass, but...whaddya do??
I use simplex whenever I can ;)

Offline MrThirteen

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2011, 09:01:56 PM »
This is one of the reasons why I have not pushed farther to get my ham lic.

I can hear that crap on CB and it's free.

There are area's in the ham bands that are better for many things, and the knowledge you gain to get your and advance in ham radio far out weighs the tards that screw it up for people from time to time. 

There is one repeater system here in So cal that I used to listen to from a scanner.  I just stopped when it seemed more like a cb radio than a ham band.


Offline tittiger

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 07:14:50 PM »
IMOO the FCC is the problem and not the solution.

In a free market world I think that digital spread spectrum technology would have replaced cell phone and HAM licensing of frequency bands and made a lot of these arguments moot. There are other free market solutions but that one comes to mind as one of the best.

But who am I, other than a lone nut that believes that Liberty is the answer regardless of the question. (Got that one off Earnest Hancock :-)



Offline AZCeltic formerly occeltic

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 07:47:45 PM »
Well it's been nearly a year since I started this post, and as a newbie ham, I guess I was surprised to find that there were those out there who didn't give a hoot about the rules. I suppose this shouldn't have been such a surprise to me, since I see many of these same people everyday on the freeway! What I have learned from experience and the advice of others is to simply ignore them, and don't give them the pleasure of knowing that they were successful in irritating you. Oh...and don't give anyone the one finger salute on the road either! It's a bit more dangerous!

Occeltic

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Offline tittiger

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2011, 08:16:22 PM »
Well it's been nearly a year since I started this post, and as a newbie ham, I guess I was surprised to find that there were those out there who didn't give a hoot about the rules. I suppose this shouldn't have been such a surprise to me, since I see many of these same people everyday on the freeway! What I have learned from experience and the advice of others is to simply ignore them, and don't give them the pleasure of knowing that they were successful in irritating you. Oh...and don't give anyone the one finger salute on the road either! It's a bit more dangerous!

Occeltic

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Hi occeltic!

I have to disagree with you on this one. If anyone is using the one finger salute I think it is those that bow down to Caesar and ask Caesars permission for God given rights and at the same time to curtail my God given rights. Not only do I see this as giving me and Liberty the finger I see this as giving the creator of the universe the finger.

You are saying when you grovel for a license from your owners that your right to use the airwaves comes from man and not from the one that actually created it all and gave you that right.

There used to be a very lame case not  for licensing in the past  but perhaps for regulation (And licensing IMHO never does what it is purported to do instead it is used to control and manipulate people.) but now with digital  spread spectrum I as I stated above it blows most of the reasons for government involvement out of the water.


If I were to for one minute agree that we gave the Feds the power to  either license or regulate this in the Constitution (I can't find it) that it were needed ( I don't think it is. ) Licensing is not the way to go. 

Let me explain:
I don't need a license to use the airwaves to speak to the clerk at the post office. I don't need a license to do so because it is a right.  That does not mean that I can go around making threats to people, interrupting conversations, or a thousand other things because there would be repercussions both civil and criminal for doing so.  I see no one going around suggesting that we need to license talking to one another using the atmosphere to project our voices. The same applies to using radio frequencies to project our voices.  Perhaps a case can be made for some minimal amount of regulation but never ever for licensing as that carries with it the implication that it is a permission granted by Caesar and not a right granted by our God.


Offline AZCeltic formerly occeltic

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2011, 09:12:30 PM »
Okay...I agree with you that "Liberty is the answer, regardless of the question, " and that government does indeed have far too much control over our lives. Some people believe they are entitled to do as they please no matter who they step on in the process. Perhaps they believe that some people are entitled, and some are not. Those who are not, can, in their minds, go get screwed. Thus the one finger salute!
I don't look at obtaining a license from the FCC to use the airwaves with an identifying call sign "groveling," I instead like to think of it as an accomplishment. I could have just chosen to use a cb, and perhaps accomplished my objective, which was being able to contact the wife in the event of an emergency, but that would have been too easy, and less interesting. The reason I see for licensing Hams is simply to have some sort of order in operating procedures, and a way to identify who it is you are talking with. It's not as though the government doesn't already know who I am, and where I live, etc. Do I wish it were different? Oh yeah! And certainly you are right in stating that the Constitution doesn't give the Feds the right to regulate the licensing of the airwaves, but somewhere along the line they figured out a way and a need to do so. At least I don't have to pay them for the privilege! I wish I could say the same for the DMV! I believe that some things in life are indeed a God given right! I also believe that within those rights come responsibilities, and the reward of being responsible includes certain earned privileges. You earn the privilege of driving a vehicle through following the rules of the road. The road didn't make up the rules, someone else did. In order for you to continue to have that privilege, you must abide by those rules. You break the rules, you can lose that privilege. Without someone to regulate and enforce the rules, things would become even more chaotic than they already are. I choose order over chaos.
 
With digital spread spectrum, and I am guessing you mean using the Internet via IRLP and other tools to communicate, it is a wide open opportunity to communicate with others around the world without the normal restrictions connected to two-way radios. I hope to go in that direction myself in the near future, but funds just don't allow it right now.

Occeltic


Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2011, 08:42:09 AM »
I believe one point here is that there is a difference in scale between what a single person can do with their voice and what they can do on the air waves.  I can only affect those in my immediate vicinity (Which also limits the scope or damage I can do) with my voice only.  However once I start using equipment to broadcast my voice hither and yon, I increase the magnitude of that potential interruption.   (What if I'm walking all over some emergency broadcasts because I don't know proper radio procedures).

I do tend to agree I have no problem with getting a license, the testing does help ensure those operating the equipment are doing so in a non-disruptive manor.  Just like a drivers license.  Its not asking for a privilage, its verifying that you have at least the basic knowledge to operate the equipment. (This doesn't guarantee anything, as we all know there are terrible licensed radio operators and terrible licensed drivers), but it does at least make that small step. (Don't get me wrong, i'm not advocating governmental control, i'm advocating the need for specialized knowledge to be verified by a group consensus of some kind for standards purposes) 

The government is not dictating who can or can't have a license, no groveling necessary, they are simply verifying that those who wish to use the equipment have that basic understanding of its use and procedure.  So its actually leaving it on the individual who wishes to get the license to gain the knowledge needed. 

Offline tittiger

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2011, 09:23:16 AM »
I believe one point here is that there is a difference in scale between what a single person can do with their voice and what they can do on the air waves.  I can only affect those in my immediate vicinity (Which also limits the scope or damage I can do) with my voice only.  However once I start using equipment to broadcast my voice hither and yon, I increase the magnitude of that potential interruption.   (What if I'm walking all over some emergency broadcasts because I don't know proper radio procedures).

I do tend to agree I have no problem with getting a license, the testing does help ensure those operating the equipment are doing so in a non-disruptive manor.  Just like a drivers license.  Its not asking for a privilage, its verifying that you have at least the basic knowledge to operate the equipment. (This doesn't guarantee anything, as we all know there are terrible licensed radio operators and terrible licensed drivers), but it does at least make that small step. (Don't get me wrong, i'm not advocating governmental control, i'm advocating the need for specialized knowledge to be verified by a group consensus of some kind for standards purposes)  

The government is not dictating who can or can't have a license, no groveling necessary, they are simply verifying that those who wish to use the equipment have that basic understanding of its use and procedure.  So its actually leaving it on the individual who wishes to get the license to gain the knowledge needed.  

It really makes me ashamed to be an American  when I see demonstrated that Americans no longer know the difference between a right and a privilege. Nor the implications of this. It really does.

All I can say is that government schools have done their job or taking a proud and independent freedom loving  people and turning them into a nation of serfs that do not even recognize groveling when it hits them square in the face. Why has not freedom or inalienable rights entered into your logic or argument? Are they that insignificant in your mind?

Yes there is a difference in the range of your voice and a radio wave. So what? What is your point?  Are you suggesting that I have not right to a firearm that firearms should be permissions also because they reach out longer than  my fists?

I can even begin to address the illogical  non-sequturs that follow such as:

"The government is not dictating who can or can't have a license"  Well my friend that is EXACTLY what a license is. Something the government can dictate as to who has and does not have.

Be Blessed
Joe in Missouri
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 09:28:19 AM by tittiger »

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 09:48:37 AM »
Not advocating anything other than independent verification of ability, and knowledge of procedure.  "The Government" doesn't decide who gets a license, nobody has to beg or grovel for the license, each individual decides for themselves if they are going to obtain the knowledge and understand the procedures necessary to obtain that license.   

You don't have a "Right" to shout fire in a crowded theater.  You don't have a "Right" to walk all over the airwaves and disrupt others once you leave your personal property.  I'm a huge advocate of personal property rights.  The radio sitting in your shed on your own property is yours and you have every right to do what you wish to it.  But once you broadcast your voice (or start lobbing bullets) beyond your property, you are outside of that personal property right.   

If you start shooting a firearm off of your personal property into someone else's (or many thousands other peoples as in a radio broadcast), then you have stepped beyond that same personal property right.   It is not your right to cause disruption to others.    Freedom is not an open invitation to do as you wish, any time, any where to anybody.  Freedom is recognizing that everyone else has those same rights as yourself.



Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2011, 09:52:30 AM »
By the way, I do agree with you in that "Range" was not the proper term or way to approach this.  Boundaries and personal property is much more accurate.


Offline tittiger

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2011, 10:03:30 AM »
The way I see it you are suggesting that any right that is abused needs to be turned into a permission.  Which means we really have no rights as there will always be men that will violate the rights of others.  IMOO the proper response to this is not to take away the God given rights of all  by converting everything to a permission. Rather it is to establish a system of laws and punish the violation of our  rights.

Imagine that! Government that exists to protect our God given rights!  Sorta sounds like what the founding fathers said that they instituted government for.   I don't ever remember the founding fathers stating that they were going to institute a government to become God and grant us rights through the use of licenses.

Offline Docwatmo

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2011, 10:19:35 AM »
Not suggesting anything of the kind.  Simply making the argument that there is nothing wrong with legitimizing the knowledge necessary to operate a radio outside of your personal property.  You are correct, there is nothing in the constitution about granting of licenses.  There is also no amendment that gives us the right to harm others in the use of our own private property.    Licensing may not be the best option, and in a perfect world where everyone takes responsibility for themselves and nobody disrupts others with their radio's, then the need for that verification would not be necessary.  (We don't live in a perfect world by any means).

But as we have seen by the original purpose of this thread, there are plenty of people who don't take that responsibility upon themselves and just do as they wish and continue disrupting others.  Licensing is just an option to help curb some of that.  Its not perfect, (then again what man made thing other than a Colt 1911 really is ;D) however, it does not take any kind of inherent right or freedom away from anyone.   It simply attempts to ensure that those who use the radio equipment and broadcast on those airwaves, have a minimum knowledge base. 

Offline Roknrandy

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2011, 10:35:27 AM »
Not suggesting anything of the kind.  Simply making the argument that there is nothing wrong with legitimizing the knowledge necessary to operate a radio outside of your personal property.  You are correct, there is nothing in the constitution about granting of licenses.  There is also no amendment that gives us the right to harm others in the use of our own private property.    Licensing may not be the best option, and in a perfect world where everyone takes responsibility for themselves and nobody disrupts others with their radio's, then the need for that verification would not be necessary.  (We don't live in a perfect world by any means).

But as we have seen by the original purpose of this thread, there are plenty of people who don't take that responsibility upon themselves and just do as they wish and continue disrupting others.  Licensing is just an option to help curb some of that.  Its not perfect, (then again what man made thing other than a Colt 1911 really is ;D) however, it does not take any kind of inherent right or freedom away from anyone.   It simply attempts to ensure that those who use the radio equipment and broadcast on those airwaves, have a minimum knowledge base. 

A good example of this is CB's. When they first came out you had to have a license, now most channels are a free for all because nobody cares about the simple rules laid out so everyone could use it properly and equally.

Offline tittiger

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2011, 10:47:28 AM »
1.)  Licensing for any reason under any name converts a God given right to a permission.

2.) There are a plethora of ways to address the violation of others rights (the only legitimate purpose of government)
than the oxymoron of taking everyone's rights away with an illegal, and immoral licensing scheme.

George Orwell was a piker at Orwellian double speak compared to you two gentlemen. Maybe you can delude yourselves but you are not deluding me....

Offline LvsChant

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2011, 11:18:00 AM »
tittiger,

You are still a fairly new member to this board. So, you are getting a warning. Your comments and assumptions about the ignorance of the folks with whom you are debating this subject are objectionable.

example:
It really makes me ashamed to be an American  when I see demonstrated that Americans no longer know the difference between a right and a privilege. Nor the implications of this. It really does.

On the TSP forum you must be respectful of the opinions of others (even if you don't agree). If you cannot do that, you'll earn yourself a cooling off period of a few days' time. If you cannot reform, you'll be banned.

All points of view are welcome, as long as you adhere to this standard.

LvsChant
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 01:49:34 PM by LvsChant »

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2011, 01:32:45 PM »
Hey OCCeltic!  Is this the WinSys repeater system that you're talking about?  I can't remember their frequency off the top of my head, but it *sounds* like the WinSys repeaters.

I refuse to even scan past that frequency when I'm using my radio down here.  For me, it's either simplex, or a few repeaters that I've got stored in my radio's memory.  I was *shocked* the first few times I turned onto the WinSys repeaters for the same reason you were/are.

PS - the winsys repeaters are linked throughout much of the US, and they're on echolink as well for anybody else who might be interested in tuning into a really good example of what ham radio is NOT supposed to be.

Offline AZCeltic formerly occeltic

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2011, 02:34:20 PM »
Absolutely not SW. The station I was originally referring to was a 2m station in Los Angeles. Now that station was indeed shocking in its content! I'm not sure why you think the winsystem is as you describe. I use it all the time, and know several of the folks who are involved, and they wouldn't tolerate it. I have been using it for more than a year, and have never experienced anything that even comes close to inappropriate. The repeater I use is on Santiago Peak at 448.060 pl-100. There is also a win repeater on Sunset Ridge 147.210 pl+100 that I can't hit from my place. The fact that the winsystem is linked to 70+ repeaters in several states and a few countries as well, allows me access in many of the places I go. Simplex is fine, I just haven't found too many in my area that use it. Other methods of getting into a node via IRLP..etc., is also an option. Take the time to re-visit sometime. I think you'll find it is nothing but excellent communications with other fine folks.

Say howdy to TW!

Occeltic

Offline joeinwv

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2011, 02:49:52 PM »
Just as an observation - would you rather all of the folks 'abusing' HAM radio on this tower simply sell all of their gear and go radio silent? At some point isn't it better to have more users and more popularity, even if some are boisterous or disobey some of the rules... I have no stake in this game, so just asking a question.

I am also against this license requirement. I am surprised they have not worked in some manner of monthly fee, as with tv, cell and land line phones.

Offline AZCeltic formerly occeltic

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Re: Abuse of the Airwaves: Where is the FCC?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2011, 06:01:44 PM »
Well Joe...of course not. At the same time, I don't really know if sacrificing proper operating procedures in exchange for more users and popularity is worth it. Those who use the particular repeater in question, understand that what goes on is the standard ops for that repeater, and just like I have the choice to change the TV channel away from something I don't like, I can do the same with that particular freq. At the time of my original post, I was a new ham, and was surprised that this was going on. I've grown in my understanding since then, and realize that the FCC has bigger fish to go after than a bunch of people on the airwaves. Those who are boisterous and push the limits of decency...make ham radio less enjoyable for those who want to have plain old conversations, and don't add to the popularity, but instead keep people away from it. As far as the license goes; it doesn't bother me.  Anyway....thanks for your thoughts regarding this.

Occeltic