Author Topic: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars  (Read 4415 times)

Offline wtxd

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Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« on: September 14, 2010, 12:53:15 PM »
So I am working (work out of my house) and i hear a knock at the door.  I look around the corner and see someone through the glass but they can't see me.  I wait for them to give up on anybody answering the door and they walk away but they go to my neighbor's door.  I go up to the door for a better vantage point and see a car with another guy sitting and waiting.  The first guy walks away from my neighbor's house and gets in the car and leaves.  This definitely does not feel right so I grab my mossberg from beside my desk and walk out into my side yard that is fenced to see if i notice anything out of the ordinary.  I hear talking and i notice these two guys walking down the alley between my house and my neighbor's house.  They don't see me but I see that it's the same guys that were out front and they are casing the neighborhood for easy targets. 

I let them leave and I get in my truck and start to drive around my neighborhood to see if they are still around and find them one street over knocking on another door.  I drive past them and go down a ways and turn around.  I should have gotten their license plate and taken a picture with my phone but wasn't thinking about that at that particular moment.  As I started back towards them the one guy jumps into the car and they take off.  I start to follow them because now I am pissed and know they were picking their targets if not planning to bust in somewhere right then.  I proceeded on a 15 minute chase after these guys but couldn't get close enough to get their plate and they knew they were busted.  I should have played it differently by getting their plate first but hindsight is 20/20.  I do know that I at least prevented a burglary or two today.  It has made me re-assess my home's security and thank God that I am able to work from home!

wtxd

I

Offline wtxd

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2010, 01:41:12 PM »
once i knew they were still in the neighborhood, i should have called the police since they might have been able to pay them a visit while they were getting to know the neighborhood better.  lesson learned....

Offline Sarcasmo

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 02:58:35 PM »
Good Job! - enough said.

Offline tburda

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 03:08:04 PM »
I too work from home, I have mirrors in "strategic" spots that mostly look inconspicuous, except for one outside I can look into from my office window to see down the hall to my front door and around the front of the house.  I use the constant reflection in my neighbors picture window to watch the other houses too.  I know where you're coming from on that waiting for people to go away, it's so obnoxious you're trying to get something done and the salespeople, solicitors, burglars always bothering you.

I also have 170 pounds worth of 3 strong dogs and a .45 for backup.

And I live in a "nice" suburb.  But these are the places that get cased during the day.

Nice work.  Never let your guard down.

Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 04:23:13 PM »
So I am working (work out of my house) and i hear a knock at the door.  I look around the corner and see someone through the glass but they can't see me.  I wait for them to give up on anybody answering the door and they walk away but they go to my neighbor's door.  I go up to the door for a better vantage point and see a car with another guy sitting and waiting.  The first guy walks away from my neighbor's house and gets in the car and leaves.  This definitely does not feel right so I grab my mossberg from beside my desk and walk out into my side yard that is fenced to see if i notice anything out of the ordinary.  I hear talking and i notice these two guys walking down the alley between my house and my neighbor's house.  They don't see me but I see that it's the same guys that were out front and they are casing the neighborhood for easy targets. 

I let them leave and I get in my truck and start to drive around my neighborhood to see if they are still around and find them one street over knocking on another door.  I drive past them and go down a ways and turn around.  I should have gotten their license plate and taken a picture with my phone but wasn't thinking about that at that particular moment.  As I started back towards them the one guy jumps into the car and they take off.  I start to follow them because now I am pissed and know they were picking their targets if not planning to bust in somewhere right then.  I proceeded on a 15 minute chase after these guys but couldn't get close enough to get their plate and they knew they were busted.  I should have played it differently by getting their plate first but hindsight is 20/20.  I do know that I at least prevented a burglary or two today.  It has made me re-assess my home's security and thank God that I am able to work from home!

wtxd

your profile is blank, so if you're a real person and not a setup, or a kid trolling, then you need a lot more training. You did just about everything wrong. If a confrontation had developed and you ended up using your shotgun, you'd probably be going to jail for manslaughter. Assuming you survived the confrontation. Stop. Go directly to a qualified CCW class and get trained on the proper way to handle these types of situations. Taking the above at face value any decent prosecutor or criminal defense attorney or civil attorney will have no trouble painting you as some crazed vigilante looking for trouble and any excuse to "use" his shotgun. Let me break it down:
1) You notice what you believe is "suspicious behavior". You did not notify police or other authority.
2) You visually confirmed that there is at least 2 people, meaning that you now know you are out numbered and have no way of knowing if there are others involved. Still you did not inform the police, a private security service or call any neighbors to assist in observation.
3) AFTER you see them leave you arm yourself with the shotgun just laying there beside your desk... waiting (you are frying yourself) then go out looking for them. Still no call to police for assistance or help from anyone else.
4) You actually leave the relative security and legal strength of your home to chase after a numerically superior force of unknown capability??? and do so in anger for a crime you cannot confirm has been or was about to be committed??
5) For 15 minutes you "chase" after someone in a vehicle on a public street(s), possibly with a loaded shotgun in your car, without probable cause of any crime and with no notice to anyone?

You weren't being brave. You weren't even being a good neighbor and steward. You were being stupid.
I'm not gonna give you a pass on this one. Good people with good intentions end up hurt, imprisoned or dead everyday.
We as preppers, survivalists and gun owners must hold ourselves to a high standard. There are simply to many forces just waiting for us to screw up so they can use it against us one & all. You need some real training, not Internet but with a skilled, ego free and caring instructor in person. Get trained now. Oh by the way, this is how I would have "dealt" with you had I been one of the guys in the truck:
1) Get out cellphone, call 911.
2) Hello is this 911 emergency? (yes) Hey I was just in this neighborhood looking for my daughter at her friend's house and this crazy guy in a truck started following us. Now he's chasing us and I'm starting to get really worried. I think he may be armed. Man, he's driving crazy if you don't get here soon he's gonna kill somebody."
3) 911 response: Sir, please stay calm officers are on the way. Do you see any weapons?
4) My response: I think so, its hard to tell, maybe a shotgun or rifle or something.
5) Police arrive at scene... You go to jail at least for the night while shit gets sorted out. Maybe longer if they're smart criminals or prosecutor hates gun owners...
then when you do get out you'll find your house has been cleaned out... because I'll know exactly where you'll be for at least the next 4-6 hours.

Regards,
Shadowalker

PS: I'm not picking on you or flaming you. Just telling you the truth.

Offline Ditch

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 04:34:08 PM »
once i knew they were still in the neighborhood, i should have called the police since they might have been able to pay them a visit while they were getting to know the neighborhood better.  lesson learned....

Still not too late to inform LEO.  Make the call and report anything you can remember.  It may save a life later.

Offline mike77

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 05:18:40 PM »
Shadowalker summed up my initial thoughts better than I could, so I'll just +1 what he said. I will say good to you for caring enough about your neighbors and neighborhood to find out what these guys were doing after they left your house. Many people wouldn't care beyond that they left their house. I just think that there are better ways to deal with the situation.
I'm also curious if these guys ever actually noticed you. From your description it's hard to tell if you did truly stop them or if they just finished what they were doing and left. Give yourself a pat on the back and a rap on the knuckles for your response to these guys and hopefully realize that there are better ways to deal with such a situation.

Offline Ken325

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 08:30:49 PM »
I hate to jump on your case WTXD but I was really concerned about your legal position when I read this also.  My first thought was call the police!  I have talked to a lot of people who witnessed a crime, or suspicious activity, and had an aversion to calling the police.  I call anytime I see something suspicious.  If your not sure and it is only a suspicion, then call the regular police number not 911.  I used to live next to a cemetery and I would call the regular number 5-6 times a year when I saw teenagers messing around in the cemetery at night.  The police always appreciated my call. 

Another concern is you can not defend your neighbors property with a firearm unless you have your neighbors permission.  I would have tried to take pictures with my cell phone and gotten a license number.  It is hard to think clearly when something like this is happening, so you have to plan your actions in advance.  Training is a good idea.

On the positive side you were observant, recognized what was occurring, and you tried to do something. 

Offline wtxd

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2010, 11:10:09 AM »
your profile is blank, so if you're a real person and not a setup, or a kid trolling, then you need a lot more training. You did just about everything wrong. If a confrontation had developed and you ended up using your shotgun, you'd probably be going to jail for manslaughter. Assuming you survived the confrontation. Stop. Go directly to a qualified CCW class and get trained on the proper way to handle these types of situations. Taking the above at face value any decent prosecutor or criminal defense attorney or civil attorney will have no trouble painting you as some crazed vigilante looking for trouble and any excuse to "use" his shotgun. Let me break it down:
1) You notice what you believe is "suspicious behavior". You did not notify police or other authority.
2) You visually confirmed that there is at least 2 people, meaning that you now know you are out numbered and have no way of knowing if there are others involved. Still you did not inform the police, a private security service or call any neighbors to assist in observation.
3) AFTER you see them leave you arm yourself with the shotgun just laying there beside your desk... waiting (you are frying yourself) then go out looking for them. Still no call to police for assistance or help from anyone else.
4) You actually leave the relative security and legal strength of your home to chase after a numerically superior force of unknown capability??? and do so in anger for a crime you cannot confirm has been or was about to be committed??
5) For 15 minutes you "chase" after someone in a vehicle on a public street(s), possibly with a loaded shotgun in your car, without probable cause of any crime and with no notice to anyone?

You weren't being brave. You weren't even being a good neighbor and steward. You were being stupid.
I'm not gonna give you a pass on this one. Good people with good intentions end up hurt, imprisoned or dead everyday.
We as preppers, survivalists and gun owners must hold ourselves to a high standard. There are simply to many forces just waiting for us to screw up so they can use it against us one & all. You need some real training, not Internet but with a skilled, ego free and caring instructor in person. Get trained now. Oh by the way, this is how I would have "dealt" with you had I been one of the guys in the truck:
1) Get out cellphone, call 911.
2) Hello is this 911 emergency? (yes) Hey I was just in this neighborhood looking for my daughter at her friend's house and this crazy guy in a truck started following us. Now he's chasing us and I'm starting to get really worried. I think he may be armed. Man, he's driving crazy if you don't get here soon he's gonna kill somebody."
3) 911 response: Sir, please stay calm officers are on the way. Do you see any weapons?
4) My response: I think so, its hard to tell, maybe a shotgun or rifle or something.
5) Police arrive at scene... You go to jail at least for the night while shit gets sorted out. Maybe longer if they're smart criminals or prosecutor hates gun owners...
then when you do get out you'll find your house has been cleaned out... because I'll know exactly where you'll be for at least the next 4-6 hours.

Regards,
Shadowalker

PS: I'm not picking on you or flaming you. Just telling you the truth.

Shadowalker,
Thanks for your comments and assessment of the situation.  You are right about most of what you said but not everything.  I will update my profile.  I joined the board back in 2008 and listen to the podcast everyday.  I just haven’t posted since I joined, hence the blank profile.  I am not a troller, a kid or a plant.  I am a real guy living in West Texas. 

So let me respond to you points.

1) You are correct, I should have called the police before anything else.  I didn’t though and hindsight is 20/20 and I have learned something as a result.

2) I do not have all the answers and will be attending a CCW class in the next month or so and I know that will help tremendously

3) It is not against the law for me to have a shotgun in my house and with me working from home, I have my .45 and my shotgun within reach since nobody is in the house except me.  I did not leave my property with my weapon and I would not go out into my yard without being armed if I believe there may be someone there that shouldn’t be.  Again, I should have called police at the beginning.

4) leaving may have been foolish but I had the gut feeling that they were moving on to another random residence and although I don’t know for a fact that they were choosing another house, it seemed random for them to be at another house on another street after being at my house and my neighbor’s house and for them to speed off when I drove down the street towards them, not having made any aggressive moves or actions at that point.  Again, you are right but my gut was that I needed to see if they were still in the neighborhood. 

5)  I did not take the shotgun in my vehicle when I “chased” them.  I did not get close enough to get a plate number while following them due to the traffic and the fact that I did not want to cause an accident.  My intent was to get their plate number. 

I never claimed to be acting bravely…but I do believe that I did my neighbors and myself a service (though not in the most appropriate way) because I am the only person on my cul-de-sac who is home during the day.  Had these individuals been in fact planning to burglarize one or more of our homes, that didn’t  happen.
I should have handled most everything differently and will if this happens again.  I have learned a lot from your response and from that of others.  I don’t take it as a flaming and I thank you for your well thought out response.

Offline Joe2

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2010, 12:01:41 PM »
ok your actions werent perfect.

but you had the balls to stand up and i congratulate you for that. too many people hide and call for help because they dont want to be involved, get their hands dirty, etc., or flat out too scared!

the fact is people dont react for fear they may act improperly or fear law suite, even a fear of injury or death. - i say use some common sense, make reasonable decisions and have a set of balls.

someone comes in my yard/property and i may tell my wife to call the police, but i will / have confront them.

Offline wtxd

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 12:33:27 PM »
I hate to jump on your case WTXD but I was really concerned about your legal position when I read this also.  My first thought was call the police!  I have talked to a lot of people who witnessed a crime, or suspicious activity, and had an aversion to calling the police.  I call anytime I see something suspicious.  If your not sure and it is only a suspicion, then call the regular police number not 911.  I used to live next to a cemetery and I would call the regular number 5-6 times a year when I saw teenagers messing around in the cemetery at night.  The police always appreciated my call. 

Another concern is you can not defend your neighbors property with a firearm unless you have your neighbors permission.  I would have tried to take pictures with my cell phone and gotten a license number.  It is hard to think clearly when something like this is happening, so you have to plan your actions in advance.  Training is a good idea.

On the positive side you were observant, recognized what was occurring, and you tried to do something. 

Thanks Ken, you make very good points.

Offline wtxd

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2010, 01:22:05 PM »
Shadowalker,
Thanks for your comments and assessment of the situation.  You are right about most of what you said but not everything.  I will update my profile.  I joined the board back in 2008 and listen to the podcast everyday.  I just haven’t posted since I joined, hence the blank profile.  I am not a troller, a kid or a plant.  I am a real guy living in West Texas. 

So let me respond to you points.

1) You are correct, I should have called the police before anything else.  I didn’t though and hindsight is 20/20 and I have learned something as a result.

2) I do not have all the answers and will be attending a CCW class in the next month or so and I know that will help tremendously

3) It is not against the law for me to have a shotgun in my house and with me working from home, I have my .45 and my shotgun within reach since nobody is in the house except me.  I did not leave my property with my weapon and I would not go out into my yard without being armed if I believe there may be someone there that shouldn’t be.  Again, I should have called police at the beginning.

4) leaving may have been foolish but I had the gut feeling that they were moving on to another random residence and although I don’t know for a fact that they were choosing another house, it seemed random for them to be at another house on another street after being at my house and my neighbor’s house and for them to speed off when I drove down the street towards them, not having made any aggressive moves or actions at that point.  Again, you are right but my gut was that I needed to see if they were still in the neighborhood. 

5)  I did not take the shotgun in my vehicle when I “chased” them.  I did not get close enough to get a plate number while following them due to the traffic and the fact that I did not want to cause an accident.  My intent was to get their plate number. 

I never claimed to be acting bravely…but I do believe that I did my neighbors and myself a service (though not in the most appropriate way) because I am the only person on my cul-de-sac who is home during the day.  Had these individuals been in fact planning to burglarize one or more of our homes, that didn’t  happen.
I should have handled most everything differently and will if this happens again.  I have learned a lot from your response and from that of others.  I don’t take it as a flaming and I thank you for your well thought out response.


Just a point of clarification on when i joined this site.  It was actually September, 2009, not in 2008.  That was a different site I was speaking of.

Offline ncjeeper

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2010, 04:12:40 PM »
The major points have been addressed so I wont repeat those except that as soon as your spidey senses started to tingle you should have called 911. Time is of the essence in getting a unit or two enroute. Heck they (police) may have even been close by in a another neighborhood looking for these guys, you never know.

Does your neighborhood have a neighborhood watch? If so I would get the word out about these guys and a vehicle description so everyone can be on the look out. They (bad guys) might not return but another group of scumbags may. Heaven knows there are plenty of them.


Offline TwoBluesMama

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2010, 05:20:41 PM »
wtxd - wanted to welcome you to the forum and point you to the Intro Thread on the Front Porch -  here a link for you:  http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?board=77.0
Please drop in there and say howdy.

I think the way you responded to the criticism here on your first posts is to be commended. I appreciate the way you handled your response without being defensive.  Glad you've joined us and hope you continue to share what you know and learn what you need.  Blessings TBM 

Offline Pathfinder

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2010, 07:41:34 PM »
I hate to jump on your case WTXD but I was really concerned about your legal position when I read this also.  My first thought was call the police!  I have talked to a lot of people who witnessed a crime, or suspicious activity, and had an aversion to calling the police.  I call anytime I see something suspicious.  If your not sure and it is only a suspicion, then call the regular police number not 911.  I used to live next to a cemetery and I would call the regular number 5-6 times a year when I saw teenagers messing around in the cemetery at night.  The police always appreciated my call. 

Another concern is you can not defend your neighbors property with a firearm unless you have your neighbors permission.  I would have tried to take pictures with my cell phone and gotten a license number.  It is hard to think clearly when something like this is happening, so you have to plan your actions in advance.  Training is a good idea.

On the positive side you were observant, recognized what was occurring, and you tried to do something. 

YMMV

I was home some years back in Evanston, IL, and looking out my kitchen window into the back yard and the commercial alley (no fence). I watched as 3 kids came walking along slowly - they did not live in the neighborhood and could have been wearing gang clothes - same colors, hats on sideways, etc. Or they could have been wannabees to, they were young, early middle school maybe?

Anyhow, one picks up a rock, and chucks it at a window in the warehouse across the alley. Then they all start doing that - meantime I am on the phone to 911. I tell the dispatcher what is happening and where, and her response? Do you want me to send a car?

Let me repeat that - Do you want me to send a car? I reported a crime (albeit not a huge one) and she responds "Do you want me to send a car?" I stutter out a yes, flabbergasted she would even ask, and she says OK and disconnects.

This is daytime, weekday, late afternoon. I know a lot of the patrol cars are around schools keeping lids on things but still. A car finally showed up about 40 minutes later. The warehouse suffered 2 or 3 broken windows and the kids got away.

Offline Ken325

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Re: Stopped 2 Scumbag Burglars
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2010, 10:36:22 PM »
Quote
I am on the phone to 911. I tell the dispatcher what is happening and where, and her response? Do you want me to send a car?
Yeah, I know what you’re talking about.  I described on another thread how it took 50 minutes to get a police response in New Orleans when some people that I worked with were held at gunpoint.  The one time that I called 911 to report vandals in the cemetery, I was told that 911 was for emergencies only.  That is why I stated to call the main police number instead of 911.  I found that my information was appreciated, and a car was sent within 10 minutes every time.  The cemetery had a lot of WW2 soldiers burred in it and I did not want to see their grave stones vandalized.  We could probably find several examples of how the police do a good job to go with all the horror stories. 

If you draw your gun you need to be ready to go to court and defend your actions.  If you make a mistake you could be convicted of a felony like brandishing, or aggravated assault.  I would not place myself in the position of having to go to court unless I thought that someone was going to be physically harmed, or if I was defending my home.  I would call the police, take notes, and take pictures.  Calling the police protects you if you do need to use a firearm because you told your side of the story first. 

I also say this because I used to work in a high crime inner-city neighborhood.  I noticed that a lot of the people in the neighborhood were good, church going, people but they had a very high tolerance of criminal activity.  They would point out the drug dealers, prostitutes, and gang members then tell me not to go down some streets.  When I asked why they didn’t call the police, I was told that they were distantly related to the person, or that they didn’t want to get involved.  I am of the opinion that the reason this is a high crime neighborhood is that people didn’t call the police.  If people called it in, the criminals would move out of the neighborhood.