Author Topic: How close are we to SHTF?  (Read 156236 times)

Offline 12XLR8

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How close are we to SHTF?
« on: January 21, 2011, 01:52:51 AM »
Someone on another forum asked this question. What do you think?

Offline Gas-Mask

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 02:11:08 AM »
we are always a second way.  earthquake, tsunami, tornado, flood, land slide, riots (LA has had 2).  And on a personal level... Loose a job, death in the family (God forbid), falsly accused(prison), fire, car trouble, or worse (car crash).   

because of Jack I realized that that we have to be ready for everything.  Even life insurance is a prep.

Cheers

Offline BigM

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 05:34:55 AM »
Did you ever see the movie "Independence Day"? There's a scene in that movie [about 30 or so minutes in] where the military sends in their jets armed with nuclear bombs to try and bring it down. However with the force fields up, their effortswere futile and without success. However, later on in the movie, they finally figured out how to take down alien spaceship with a computer virus from within. Once the virus got inserted at the core of the ship, their shields were effected and thus rendered useless and then at the same time they had someone fly in with a nuclear bomb a blew up the ship.

Well, that analogy is pretty much how I view our economy. It is so strong, that only something [like a virus] will take it down.

So what is that virus today. Well there are many actually: Over spending, printing money we can't back up, and basically imo....the current policies of the current administration in the White House. Not to mention the world events that are currently unfolding before our eye's.

So yah, as it stands today, the world is undergoing serious viral attack called "indulgence". It has finally caught up with us. And so now more than ever, because the world economy is weak in many ways, it won't take much to effect it. And as much as some may want to deny that oil is what runs the world...it is the source of the world economic engine. Some say there are outside influences out there that purposely control the oil prices to effect our economy either way, and their waiting for the pieces to fall into place to bring things to a halt.

But frankly 12X...to answer your question: based on what I've been reading...it could be anytime within the next couple years.....anytime! So like Gas-Mask stated, prepare like it's a second away. Just start getting ready as best you can and go from there. All you have to do is pay attention to the news and it's pretty clear where were heading as a country. :-\

Offline Spamity Calamity

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 08:50:02 AM »
Frankly I don't think it's ever going to happen. Not a total breakdown of society anyway.We will probably never have to fire our Main Battle Rifles in anger or defense. I see the value of prepping for disasters and the payoff in striving to be self sufficient. Prepping for personal disaster like losing a job is WAAAY more important. I can see a gradual decline in everybody's standard of living but actual SHTF?...not gonna happen.

Offline Oni

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 09:31:11 AM »
Frankly I don't think it's ever going to happen. Not a total breakdown of society anyway.We will probably never have to fire our Main Battle Rifles in anger or defense. I see the value of prepping for disasters and the payoff in striving to be self sufficient. Prepping for personal disaster like losing a job is WAAAY more important. I can see a gradual decline in everybody's standard of living but actual SHTF?...not gonna happen.

I'm not too sure.  I live in the L.A. area and watched countless smoke plumes rising from around the city during the Rodney King riots.  Businesses burned, people shot and beaten...even firemen putting out fires were taking rounds.  Also witnessed all the idiots starting smaller riots everytime a local sports team wins or loses and championship and illegal aliens demanding rights starting trouble as well.

Deployed to NOLA a week after Katrina and a buddy who deployed before us said it was a bit like the Wild West when he got there.  When we got there the Police and Federal agents manning checkpoints were taking incoming fire a few times a day and there were armed National Guard foot patrols.  They had sandbagged OP's as well.  Some very bad stuff went down before we got there though as we heard from local LE and some of the stuff we saw was very eye opening.

So I am preparing for things both big and small.  I don't have much faith in society as a whole and think society can break down far easier than most of us would care to admit.  We actually heard the start of the King riot from a Ham radio operator that happened to be in the area.  He said some guys were throwing things at passing cars (didn't know why) and then it rapidly escalated and he quickly left the area, hour or so later it hit the news as it kept escalating and the looting started.  Buddy and I had 4 scanners running as well as TV news coverage and I can tell you it was really bad.

My Aunt lived in the Crenshaw area, the shopping center where her business was in burned to the ground.  Fortunately for her, her Son in Law is an LAPD officer and he and his buddies camped out at her house so they would be closer to work and provide protection for her.  The rioting came within a few blocks of her residence.

So I don't think a break down of society is too far fetched.  It would take quite an event to be really wide spread, but it could be more localized to a certain area or areas...but bad news for you if it's in your area!  I've seen it in my area once, so a second time is not too far fetched.

Offline wyomiles

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 09:43:56 AM »

Offline Mike Honcho

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 10:05:28 AM »
I'm no financial genius, nor do I play one on TV, but chaos will come from any economic or system failure and IMHO capitalism is bound to fail eventually; in our lifetime who knows, but physics 101 suggests that "what goes up, must come down" which applies to everything in life, including our economy and from an economic standpoint mankind as a whole has been on a steady upswing for the past 150 years or so...

An estimated 654 trillion dollars worth of loans were packaged and sold by banks and investment firms on wall street between 2001 & 2007... The entire world economy generates approx 54 trillion dollars, so I don't know how we are ever going to cover that debt when "Bruno" comes knocking for payment without mass producing money and further diluting the strength of the US dollar...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my take on the situation:

To appeal to our indulgent lifestyle, a systematic scheme was developed of sub-primes, derivative's, hedge funds and puts to fleece the American people; in other words it was designed for failure, the more houses defaulted and foreclosed the more money certain wealthy investors made. The entire system was created by the wealthy to not only generate more wealth, but also create a massive gap between rich (1%) and poor (99%), with very little room in between. Just look at the Treasury Secretaries all the way back to Regan and they ALL have had their hands heavily involved in the wall street game and all have worked for the same banks and firms that not only systematically ripped us all off by their own design, but then we (tax-paying Americans) bailed them out... Our whole monetary system (including the aforementioned derivatives, sub-primes and such) is nothing more than an elaborate Ponzi scheme...The only reason Madoff got in trouble was because he was stealing from the rich...There are thousands more Madoffs that stole form the working class folks that will never be brought to justice, and to that end even Bernie only had to pay victims back close to 7.8 billion of the over 65 billion he stole; so where's the rest of the money?

I like money just like everyone else, but the folks that run our country, the US run IMF, Wall St. and the banks across the globe lust for it and since we now have a global marketplace, it will be the downfall of the entire world! When? I can't call it and don't claim to, but just like animals that flee a flood zone right before that water gets there have an internal clock that makes them scatter in advance of danger... My internal clock started ringing about a year ago! -MH

Offline JiB

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 10:52:17 AM »
There’s an old adage on this theme which goes something like this:

"When change is likely to take place it usually takes a lot longer to kick off than one thinks, but when things do start changing it takes place much quicker than one expected."

Offline soccer grannie

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 10:59:34 AM »
I've posted about this somewhere else on the forum, but IMO it's worth repeating. Although this wasn't a local, national or weather related event it was still a big blow to our budget. When DH had heart surgery in Oct. and during that time we had a couple of big car repairs, having extra food and other household items on hand was a blessing. Money was tight and being able to dip into the extras was a big help. This might seem trivial to some, but our personal SHTF would have been much worse IF we hadn't had those items put away. Eliminated extra stress neither of us needed and one less thing to worry about.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 11:12:17 AM by soccer grannie »

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 01:06:56 PM »
If you follow where we are in the time line of Revelation, I would say we have less than 100 years before complete TEOTWAWKI.

And yes, I do understand that people have been making this claim since the time of Paul.  However, we have a much clearer understanding of the end times prophecies than previous generations.

Offline Amator

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2011, 01:31:36 PM »
I'm a believer in Jack's False Recovery theory, and feel our economic bubble will burst sometime in the next few years.  When that happens, I don't believe we'll be EMPed and stuck in our neighborhoods while under attacks from gangs of Mutant Zombie Bikers and NATO Jack-Booted-Thugs. 

I believe we'll see a situation like Argentina went through but much worse as we have further to fall and I'm sure the average Argentine knows more about food prep/hard times living than the average American.  City services including emergency services will reduce and crime will certainly go up.  Our population is used to all the medications/treatments money can buy and when those aren't available or are too costly, we'll lose a chunk of people. 

This will coincide with the rise of China and India and our fall from being the world's superpower.  They could try something against us, we could do something stupid while trying to maintain dominance through weaponry, or angry terrorists could kick us while we're down.  That could set off a scary period of future history. 

But hopefully, we'll just be content with the sun setting on the American Empire and go back to taking care of ourselves by growing more food, fixing all of our rusting lathes and factory equipment, and concerning ourselves with our own life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.   

Offline LJH

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2011, 02:27:09 PM »
I'm a believer in Jack's False Recovery theory, and feel our economic bubble will burst sometime in the next few years.  When that happens, I don't believe we'll be EMPed and stuck in our neighborhoods while under attacks from gangs of Mutant Zombie Bikers and NATO Jack-Booted-Thugs. 

I believe we'll see a situation like Argentina went through but much worse as we have further to fall and I'm sure the average Argentine knows more about food prep/hard times living than the average American.  City services including emergency services will reduce and crime will certainly go up.  Our population is used to all the medications/treatments money can buy and when those aren't available or are too costly, we'll lose a chunk of people. 

This will coincide with the rise of China and India and our fall from being the world's superpower.  They could try something against us, we could do something stupid while trying to maintain dominance through weaponry, or angry terrorists could kick us while we're down.  That could set off a scary period of future history. 

But hopefully, we'll just be content with the sun setting on the American Empire and go back to taking care of ourselves by growing more food, fixing all of our rusting lathes and factory equipment, and concerning ourselves with our own life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.   

This sounds very plausable to me, in a way, almost desirable. Certainly not the "loosing a chunk of people" part, although I believe that would be unavoidable, but the part about America going back to being a self-reliant country unstead of wannabe empire/World police force. We have the resources, talents, skills and gumption to take the whole thing back to sanity and just need the will.

Upon further thought, loosing a certain chunk of people - the parasitic chunk - wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Offline JiB

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2011, 03:17:16 PM »
Upon further thought, loosing a certain chunk of people - the parasitic chunk - wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Maybe, but I would imagine that many of the 'parasitic chunk' are street wise and well used to using violence to achieve their ends. That possibly might mean that a lot of good folks might end up being at the receiving end and having their emergency supplies taken from them....and worse.

Offline Nicodemus

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2011, 03:24:18 PM »
Upon further thought, loosing a certain chunk of people - the parasitic chunk - wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

I tend to think that if things truly went TEOTWAWKI, there would be a whole lot of people who weren't previously parasitic turning into very dangerous parasites.

Regarding how close we are to SHTF, it could be any of the previous suggestions made in the thread. A SHTF scenario could be any day now, on a fast track, a slower timeline, a personal event, a regional event, or any other number of scenarios happening singularly or in concert. No matter what happens a SHTF situation will happen whether in our lifetime or our children's.

Offline Woody Borghini

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2011, 05:58:06 PM »
Just around the corner...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/business/economy/21bankruptcy.html?_r=1


Pretty scary!
Unfortunately, I currently resemble someone at the beginning of a storm, grabbing onto the nearest tree branch and holding on for dear life. I need to get more serious about building backup plans in every area of my life.

Thanks for this. I don't consider myself ignorant, or a sheep, but I just don't keep up with news like this as much as I should. It helps to read this, if only for a stronger, more urgent push to further preparedness.

Thanks for sharing.

-Woody

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2011, 06:56:12 PM »
If you turn on the nightly news, it happens every day.  If you were in a bar in Lakewood, Colorado a couple weeks ago, TSHTF.  If you were snowboarding on Berthod Pass last weekend for one individual, TSHTF.  If you were in Tucson a couple weeks ago, running into the store for a gallon of milk at the local grocery store, TSHTF.

Crises big and small hit all over America, all of the time.  If it happens to you or a loved one, it's a SHTF situation.  So be prepared.  Be an active observer and when you see the fecal material approaching the rotating air diffuser, take immediate, effective action to protect yourself and your family.  Sometimes you should run away, bug out, seek shelter, and get the hell out of the way.  Other times you may have the opportunity to pull the plug.  Sometimes all you can do is put on your teflon suit and help clean up. 

The moral is:  Be physically and psychologically prepared.  Pay attention and have the resources at your disposal to respond appropriately.  Not six months from today, not even a week from now, but starting today.  Prepare yourself as if something horrible and unexpected could happen on your way to work Monday morning and take every reasonable step within your means to be ready for it.

If you were talking about TEOTWAWKI, I see it as doomer fantasy.  Fun to think about because it allows to to think about a world where you don't have to go to work to a job you hate ever again, you don't have to worry about your car payment or mortgage anymore, and you get to play Rambo/Rambette.  Otherwise, I see about a 0.5% chance in any given year that there will be a situation that would clear the books like that.  Now over the next century that might add up to a 50/50 chance, but over the next decade 5% sounds about right.  That doesn't mean there won't be hurricanes, earthquakes, another 30k Mexicans killed in the drug wars in the next few years, more poverty/desperation-related violent crimes, and a thousand other things that can go wrong, but those are SHTF scenarios that happen every day.

Offline Malamute

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2011, 07:53:06 PM »
Given all the cultural, fiscal, and demographic timebombs placed by TPTB in 1913, 1965, 1971, 1994, 1999, 2001, 2010, etc. which are in the process of exploding and which are turning the US into what is euphemistically referred to as a "developing nation," I'd say we're already in SHTF.

Many people think of nuclear war, hyperinflation, EMP as SHTF, and they're right...but I'm seeing the population of this country becoming more collectively stupid and brainwashed with each passing year:  and that state of affairs has me more concerned than the other things.  
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 07:58:24 PM by Malamute »

Offline Mike Honcho

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2011, 08:40:30 PM »
Given all the cultural, fiscal, and demographic timebombs placed by TPTB in 1913, 1965, 1971, 1994, 1999, 2001, 2010, etc. which are in the process of exploding and which are turning the US into what is euphemistically referred to as a "developing nation," I'd say we're already in SHTF.

Many people think of nuclear war, hyperinflation, EMP as SHTF, and they're right...but I'm seeing the population of this country becoming more collectively stupid and brainwashed with each passing year:  and that state of affairs has me more concerned than the other things.  

QFT - Malamute you're on point with that!

Offline 12XLR8

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2011, 11:28:42 PM »
I tend to think that if things truly went TEOTWAWKI, there would be a whole lot of people who weren't previously parasitic turning into very dangerous parasites.

 ;D exactly what I was thinking

Offline 12XLR8

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2011, 11:34:50 PM »
Man, 21, shot in robbery in Mililani Safeway parking lot
By Star-Advertiser Staff


POSTED: 07:13 a.m. HST, Jan 18, 2011

A 21-year-old man went to the hospital with a gunshot wound after struggling with a robber in the parking lot of the Mililani Safeway last night, police said.

The incident happened at about 9:50 p.m. Police said two men approached the victim after he parked his car and one of the men demanded money. The 21-year-old man said he had no money and a second man allegedly brandished a firearm and also demanded money.

The victim and second suspect struggled over the weapon and the first suspect punched the victim, police said. During the struggle, the gun went off and a bullet struck the victim, police said. Family members took him to a local hospital.

Police did not give a condition on the victim.

Police are still looking for the suspects. No description was available.




 ???  And this is in Hawaii where we CAN NOT CCW and the criminals know this STATE.

Offline 12XLR8

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2011, 11:37:17 PM »
guess that would constitute a SHTF scenario for this individual

Offline Spamity Calamity

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2011, 11:55:22 AM »
I'm not too sure.  I live in the L.A. area and watched countless smoke plumes rising from around the city during the Rodney King riots.  Businesses burned, people shot and beaten...even firemen putting out fires were taking rounds.  Also witnessed all the idiots starting smaller riots everytime a local sports team wins or loses and championship and illegal aliens demanding rights starting trouble as well.

Deployed to NOLA a week after Katrina and a buddy who deployed before us said it was a bit like the Wild West when he got there.  When we got there the Police and Federal agents manning checkpoints were taking incoming fire a few times a day and there were armed National Guard foot patrols.  They had sandbagged OP's as well.  Some very bad stuff went down before we got there though as we heard from local LE and some of the stuff we saw was very eye opening.

So I am preparing for things both big and small.  I don't have much faith in society as a whole and think society can break down far easier than most of us would care to admit.  We actually heard the start of the King riot from a Ham radio operator that happened to be in the area.  He said some guys were throwing things at passing cars (didn't know why) and then it rapidly escalated and he quickly left the area, hour or so later it hit the news as it kept escalating and the looting started.  Buddy and I had 4 scanners running as well as TV news coverage and I can tell you it was really bad.

My Aunt lived in the Crenshaw area, the shopping center where her business was in burned to the ground.  Fortunately for her, her Son in Law is an LAPD officer and he and his buddies camped out at her house so they would be closer to work and provide protection for her.  The rioting came within a few blocks of her residence.

So I don't think a break down of society is too far fetched.  It would take quite an event to be really wide spread, but it could be more localized to a certain area or areas...but bad news for you if it's in your area!  I've seen it in my area once, so a second time is not too far fetched.

Those are all short term events. Not really what I consider SHTF. When I think of SHTF I think of Mad Max. For smaller localized events like what you speak of I absolutely think you should be prepared. But even considering the examples you mention those events are few and far between over the span of a person’s life. Even if you never prepped for things like the Rodney King riots and Hurricane Katrina, and focused on having 6 months of living expenses, life insurance, etc, you’d still be better off.

Offline alanz

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2011, 06:45:49 AM »

I believe we'll see a situation like Argentina went through but much worse as we have further to fall and I'm sure the average Argentine knows more about food prep/hard times living than the average American.  City services including emergency services will reduce and crime will certainly go up.  Our population is used to all the medications/treatments money can buy and when those aren't available or are too costly, we'll lose a chunk of people. 

I agree that what will happen in the U.S. will probably be a lot like what happened in Argentina, but not much worse. I'm not sure we have farther to fall. Argentina had a very high standard of living in the 90's. Still, the poorest people will probably starve, power and water will come and go, there won't be enough police, and crime will skyrocket. This is why lately I've been focusing more on home security.

Offline kiteflyer

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2011, 10:24:59 AM »


     As soon as the Chinese stop buying US debt,there will be a crash and The G-20 will come to the rescue with a new monetary system backed by The IMF and SDR's.Look for Americas to work a whole week to fill up one SUV auto however. Most will abandon auto's for electric bicycles and paying the rest of there paycheck for food etc... What's that program for life? Food,housing,clothes and transportation,most will settle for the first three. The rich and super rich will be hiding in their own conclave community with Mercenaries for protection /police work. The lay-offs for all government entities have already began and it's will manifest soon everywhere. Get close to a secured government area and look for Draconian surveillance and most rights as a citizen suspended for security.

                             kiteflyer

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2011, 02:20:19 PM »
I found the most interesting thing about this thread was that most of the dark and doomer statements came from folks who have less than 50 posts.  Not sure if this is a chicken or egg argument, but it does seem that most of us who've been around for a while tend not to see the darkest stuff as the most likely.  It's hard to figure if that's because of Jack's influence or whether we're here because we agree with Jack.

Just an observation.

Offline gobblerblaster

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2011, 03:35:20 PM »
I would say that the potential is definetly there for a complete SHTF to happen in the near future. This world has so many dominos in a line and so many things could happen if just one of the dominos fall. As a matter of fact we are seeing our food supply being reduced by drastic amounts right now. With the droughts in Russia and the Freezing temps into the southern United States and floods in Australia ;right at the time of wheat harvest, we are facing huge shortfalls. China is also consuming a lot of food now that they have more people that can afford it. Here in the U.S. alot of land that used to be farmed for food crops is now growing corn for ethanol. The price of groceries is already soaring. If people of the caliber that we have in our society now, start getting the least bit nervous about not getting fed I think we do face widespread Chaos. Just this situation alone should tell anyone that there is a huge potential for massive food riots and anarchy in the near future and this is just one of the dominos that is beginning to tip. The Middle east could explode into a World War at any time, stopping the flow of oil. What happen when all of the World get tired of our government just printing new money every time the feel like it? I'll tell you what happens, they drop King Dollar as the World Reserve Currency and we are in a heap of trouble overnight. Our government is systematically spending us into the next Depression and it is not going to be pretty folks, because people these days do not have the fortitude, knowledge, morals or common sense to get through it like those that lived in the 30s and this is the absolutly the perfect storm for a disaster. Can't say when the first Domino will fall but, when it does it will most certainly bring the whole thing down with it and panic and stupidity are going to be the main cause of it all.

Offline ncjeeper

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2011, 04:05:13 PM »
 :popcorn:

Offline kiteflyer

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2011, 07:15:40 AM »

     Tell that to all the city,state & federal workers that are getting laid off with families that had the good America Life! Hang around and we will find out who is right on the doom meter. The Terror attack on The Moscow International airport and More car bombs on the Mexico border with The USA should be a dire warning what's coming! But well see one way or another.

                              kiteflyer

I found the most interesting thing about this thread was that most of the dark and doomer statements came from folks who have less than 50 posts.  Not sure if this is a chicken or egg argument, but it does seem that most of us who've been around for a while tend not to see the darkest stuff as the most likely.  It's hard to figure if that's because of Jack's influence or whether we're here because we agree with Jack.

Just an observation.

endurance

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2011, 09:26:32 AM »
     Tell that to all the city,state & federal workers that are getting laid off with families that had the good America Life! Hang around and we will find out who is right on the doom meter. The Terror attack on The Moscow International airport and More car bombs on the Mexico border with The USA should be a dire warning what's coming! But well see one way or another.

                              kiteflyer

Kite, I really appreciate your perspective and like I said in my earlier post, I don't see utopia on the horizon, but SHTF is more personal and every day.  I don't see TEOTWAWKI happening as a crash and a boom, but rather as a transition over the next 20-50 years to a new world without many of the things we take for granted today.  I never cease to be amazed at the power of the law of inertia.  I think inertia will keep this train on the rails a lot longer than you'd think.  I'm certainly not saying we should all be sheep and unprepared, but I see that the idea of an inevitable crash is as much of a danger as complacency.  Those who think they need to be ready for armagedon tomorrow are far more likely to make poor economic choices now and may in fact place themselves in greater jeopardy of hardship without the financial reserves to get through the much more likely life events, like suffering the effects of job loss, not being able to pay for important elective surgeries (little things like hernia and rotator cuff repairs), and replacing cars and such.

If I had a choice of only one gun in the world we have today, it would be my little Kahr PM9.  No, I can't secure much food with it; no I can't go toe to toe with a guy with an AK-47, but I can always have it with me in a world where I perceive the greatest threat of violence comes from a thug on the street, not roving zombie hordes.  My next gun would be a .22, then a .270 deer rifle because they bring home meat.  My concern is the obsession with TEOTWAWKI threads is that it screws up the priorities where a .308 SCAR or AR-15 becomes the highest priority with the least practicality for the world we live in today.  When a collection of guns becomes a higher priority than the ability to feed one's family for 3 months, that's a model of failure as a survivalist.

In any case, I never meant to dismiss the threat of the world we live in today, but I don't see a sudden, dramatic crash that leads to widespread chaos in the streets where I live and work anytime soon.  The law of inertia told me so.

Offline Mike Honcho

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Re: How close are we to SHTF?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2011, 10:06:16 AM »
Quote from: endurance
...If I had a choice of only one gun in the world we have today, it would be my little Kahr PM9.  No, I can't secure much food with it; no I can't go toe to toe with a guy with an AK-47, but I can always have it with me in a world where I perceive the greatest threat of violence comes from a thug on the street, not roving zombie hordes.  My next gun would be a .22, then a .270 deer rifle because they bring home meat.  My concern is the obsession with TEOTWAWKI threads is that it screws up the priorities where a .308 SCAR or AR-15 becomes the highest priority with the least practicality for the world we live in today.  When a collection of guns becomes a higher priority than the ability to feed one's family for 3 months, that's a model of failure as a survivalist...

I agree with you on that E... My first weapon was a shotgun (Mav88) with 200 rds of assorted shells (Buck, Bird, Slug); one because it was economically priced at about $250.00 and two because I feel that a shotty can do many jobs (hunt, protect, dissuade possible intruders etc...) and do them all equally well... Next I was planning on getting an AR-15, but soon after I bought the shotgun we lost power and I quickly realized that I didn't even own a working flashlight and in that moment of darkness a light went off in my head... I then spent the next year allocating my available resources (without breaking the budget) to things like emergency food storage, water filtration, medical supplies, tools, light sources, 550 cord, fire starters, MOLLE gear to carry my supplies if needed and so on... I just picked up my second weapon (a P95 that was also very economically priced) and I doubt that I will ever get that AR-15, as zombie hordes are pretty far fetched; life is real and true survival is not scripted in Hollywood... I might get one more weapon next year but that's even debatable, but if i do it will be a Marlin Model 60 .22LR  (again economically priced) for small game and only after I spend another year boosting my stocks of other needed critical supplies...

I do feel like we're teetering on the brink of disaster, but that's just probably because I watch the news every night! -MH
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 10:13:00 AM by Mike Honcho »