Author Topic: Abduction ready EDC.  (Read 11433 times)

Offline sams

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Abduction ready EDC.
« on: September 09, 2011, 05:56:27 AM »
Hello TSP community,

I would like to discuss a EDC kid people could use to deal with abduction and hostage taking situation, ie you are the one taken hostage.

The scenario is the following : You get overpowered, taken hostage and tied up. Your attackers of course take your phone and any kind of backpak or bag you might have.

My take on this would be to use wrist bands to conceal and carry stuff, maybe a necklace knife like the one Jack have. Maybe you could conceal a knife/blade, lock picking equipment. Due to limitation of the situation no weapon is included, as it would be stupid to do a Rambo flick. Another variable is to have a device able to communicate with the external world, but small enough to be hidden in the wrist band ? Maybe a device small enough to send a sms message with you GPS location ?

I am thinking seriously about this one, might be in environment where risks are pretty in few months.

Offline TLBones

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2011, 06:03:28 AM »
Maybe watch some episodes of macgyver?   what/where is this "risky environment"?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 06:10:18 AM by TLBones »

Offline sams

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2011, 06:17:56 AM »
Maybe watch some episodes of macgyver?

This is one of the best way of getting yourself killed ... This like watching Resident Evil for survival clues and Rambo for Gun handling or ''Falling skies'' for gun safety, I am being dead serious.

what/where is this "risky environment"?

I might to a particular African hell hole, they have an election scheduled next year but they already are rounding up, abducting and beating people in preparation of the vote.

My job will put me way to close of these risks, hence I am serious about this.

Offline NWBowhunter

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2011, 06:42:35 AM »
There is a market for such a tracking device if your traveling to mexico or another is the ever growing  population of eldery dementia patiences.

The tools to self rescue can always come in handy in other situations, rafting losing everything else, having a knife that is more attached is not a bad idea.


Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2011, 06:55:24 AM »
maybe a razor blade slightly stitched into a jean pocket or the pant cuff?
years ago, the best way to hide money was to have it sewn into the hems of clothing.
maybe do a daily email to someone.  send it at a certain time every day, mentioning where you are going to be.  they can even ignore it until the day you don't send one, and then they can see where you were that day.

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2011, 06:59:30 AM »
This GPS tracker is just one of dozens of similar products on the market right now.  While it's better than nothing, statistically, if the child isn't recovered in the first 6 hours the odds of recovering them alive are 50-50.  After 24 hours their death is all but an absolute certainty.

That said, child abduction is not a fraction of the problem that the media would have you think that it is.  And, unlike most fears, the chance of a child being the victim of homicide at an early age, their risk increases as they hit their late teens and early 20s while their greatest risks in early childhood are accidents and cancer.

Offline sams

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 07:10:21 AM »
maybe a razor blade slightly stitched into a jean pocket or the pant cuff?
years ago, the best way to hide money was to have it sewn into the hems of clothing.

This sound like a good idea indeed, perfectly concealed and you could perctely carry at least 200$, half in local currency and the rest in Federal reserve bills, more than enough if they dump you in the middle of nowhere and you need some cash to get home.

maybe do a daily email to someone.  send it at a certain time every day, mentioning where you are going to be.  they can even ignore it until the day you don't send one, and then they can see where you were that day.

Thanks very much for this suggestion, I will certainly include it in the top of the list.

Offline TLBones

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 08:33:01 AM »
This is one of the best way of getting yourself killed ... This like watching Resident Evil for survival clues and Rambo for Gun handling or ''Falling skies'' for gun safety, I am being dead serious.

I might to a particular African hell hole, they have an election scheduled next year but they already are rounding up, abducting and beating people in preparation of the vote.

My job will put me way to close of these risks, hence I am serious about this.

Was making a joke... honestly once they've got you they've got you.   I would think using the buddy system would be important.  Also filing a very specific itinerary including exact physical locations you will be at each day/hour so someone has an idea where things went wrong and stick to it.    GPS/cell phone type tracking device would only be good if such a service is available in your particular hell hole and wherever they stashed you gave you both a satelite fix and cell signal.  Most I've seen are wristwatch size and would probably be taken from you?   I'd make sure whoever you are working for is serious about protecting you otherwise very much not worth it. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 08:38:57 AM by TLBones »

Offline sams

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 08:46:14 AM »
Was making a joke...

My sense of humour is kind of deficient today  ;D ;)

honestly once they've got you they've got you.

Of course, however thankfully the pattern of the most likely incident don't include killing or ransoms, they essentially mug you and dump you far away from town in the middle of the night. Essentially it is a form of punishment.

I would think using the buddy system would be important.  Also filing a very specific itinerary including exact physical locations you will be at each day/hour so someone has an idea where things went wrong and stick to it.

Somebody else suggested it and I will use it.

GPS/cell phone type tracking device would only be good if such a service is available in your particular hell hole and wherever they stashed you gave you both a satelite fix and cell signal.  Most I've seen are wristwatch size and would probably be taken from you?

Anything that looks like it is worth more than 5 $ will likely get taken away.

I'd make sure whoever you are working for is serious about protecting you otherwise very much not worth it.

I too wish I had a better job  :-[

Offline TLBones

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 09:14:32 AM »
Quote
I too wish I had a better job  :-[

Joking aside, in my IMHO the fact you are on an online forum asking security advice doesn't bode well.  Your employer or whatever entity you are working for should have security professionals/consultants to answer your questions and concerns.   Otherwise stay home. (not joking)

Offline sams

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 09:24:23 AM »
Joking aside, in my IMHO the fact you are on an online forum asking security advice doesn't bode well.  Your employer or whatever entity you are working for should have security professionals/consultants to answer your questions and concerns.   Otherwise stay home. (not joking)

Nothing makes you more prepared than avoiding trouble I guess :-\

I think the best to do is reconsider whether the whole thing is even worth the risks, thanks very much to all who answered  :D

Offline The Professor

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 09:25:31 AM »
Couple of suggestions, I'd make many more, but am now off to a seminar and am already late for leaving.

Wear boots and use 550 cord instead of regular laces.  Leave the laces much longer than necessary, preferably long enough for you to tie it to your belt or belt loop when kneeling if you are tied with your hands behind your back.

If you're tied with plastic cuffs, you untie the laces of one boot, tie it securely to belt or belt loop on your pants, and you can use the 550 cord to saw through the plastic cuffs.

Sew a pocket onto the inside of the waistband of all your pants.  The easiest way is to get a piece of elastic and sew it on 3 sides with the opening toward the top of the waistband.  In this pocket, put a handcuff key.  Should be self-explanatory.

Consider all sorts of wierd things such as OSS Lapel knives, a length of 550 cord sewn into the seam of your pants. a basic lockpick and tension tool sewn into small pockets on your shirts or pants.  If you have boots, remove the heel, hollow out a small space and put a razor blade or utility knife blade in it.  Consider wearing a knife that doubles as a belt buckle.  Perhaps, even a belt-buckle gun.

When I get back on Sunday, I'll check the board and make more suggestions, if someone else hasn't already.

The Professor

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 09:33:34 AM »
Unfortunately, it sounds like this is a done deal and you will be going to this place. 

As bad as it sounds, one thing you really need to do is ensure that if the worse should happen, that your loved ones can continue on.  Make sure your dependents are correct on your life insurance and your premiums are paid.

As for what to carry, anything you carry will need to be sewn into hems or a hidden pocket like has already been mentioned.  I know if I was the one doing the grabbing, as soon as you were grabbed and subdued, I would search you for anything that could be a weapon or tool.

Offline sams

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2011, 07:00:23 AM »
Couple of suggestions, I'd make many more, but am now off to a seminar and am already late for leaving.

Wear boots and use 550 cord instead of regular laces.  Leave the laces much longer than necessary, preferably long enough for you to tie it to your belt or belt loop when kneeling if you are tied with your hands behind your back.

If you're tied with plastic cuffs, you untie the laces of one boot, tie it securely to belt or belt loop on your pants, and you can use the 550 cord to saw through the plastic cuffs.

Sew a pocket onto the inside of the waistband of all your pants.  The easiest way is to get a piece of elastic and sew it on 3 sides with the opening toward the top of the waistband.  In this pocket, put a handcuff key.  Should be self-explanatory.

Consider all sorts of wierd things such as OSS Lapel knives, a length of 550 cord sewn into the seam of your pants. a basic lockpick and tension tool sewn into small pockets on your shirts or pants.  If you have boots, remove the heel, hollow out a small space and put a razor blade or utility knife blade in it.  Consider wearing a knife that doubles as a belt buckle.  Perhaps, even a belt-buckle gun.

When I get back on Sunday, I'll check the board and make more suggestions, if someone else hasn't already.

The Professor

Thank you very much  ;D

Making my preparations, heading before end of the year  8)

Offline Sweethearts Mom

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2011, 08:08:29 AM »
I didn't read this whole thread...only the first few entries...like where would this kind of thing happen? Please are you kidding me? Any American town that borders Mexico?

Offline FrugalFannie

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2011, 08:17:14 AM »
in the OP you mention these concerns are for a child abduction. Are you taking your child into this situation? I will flip burgers at a fast food place before I knowingly take my child into a situation where this is high enough on my priority list to be asking questions like this on a forum. YMMV

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2011, 08:43:41 AM »
in the OP you mention these concerns are for a child abduction. Are you taking your child into this situation? I will flip burgers at a fast food place before I knowingly take my child into a situation where this is high enough on my priority list to be asking questions like this on a forum. YMMV

I think it was a typo....

Quote
I would like to discuss a EDC kid people could use to deal with abduction and hostage taking situation, ie you are the one taken hostage.
I think he meant KIT
someone else brought up child abductions when talking about GPS trackers.

and I think he said Africa somewhere.

Offline NorIDhunter

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2011, 09:07:05 AM »
Fwiw, you're doing the right thing by at least acknowledging the possibility - opening your mind, even though this scenario is a nightmare that NO parent "wants" to consider..

African hellhole? Could be previews of coming attractions here. As FerFAL said in his recent interview, they didn't didn't have a real problem with kidnappings before the Argentinian collapse.
I would think that captors would likely strip the victim ASAP then give 'em something else to wear that was "clean" so to speak. Anything sewn in clothing etc would likely be thrown away. But criminals aren't generally noted for their intelligence & something like a double edge razor blade in between the the insole and the sole of a shoe/boot or a "money belt" is something that is inconspicuous and weighs next to nothing. Can't hurt.
Still, prevention would always be better than intervention. As mentioned, the buddy system, per-arranged check in times, constant itinerary updates etc would be best.
Maybe a Medic Alert bracelet/neck chain indicating regular medication needed "might" persuade an abductor to let the victim go and find another. That concept on a collar tends to help lost pets get returned to owners quicker as not many people want to deal with the hassles of meds.

Also, it probably sounds gruesome but if it's for yourself (not a kid) consider a small identifying mark/tattoo somewhere on the torso or hidden by the hair line. Imo, the only thing worse than having a loved one taken would be to have a body found that couldn't be positively id'd.  :'(

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2011, 09:38:04 AM »
Maybe a Medic Alert bracelet/neck chain indicating regular medication needed "might" persuade an abductor to let the victim go and find another. That concept on a collar tends to help lost pets get returned to owners quicker as not many people want to deal with the hassles of meds.
That's a pretty good idea that I never thought of.  As long as the kidnapper was in it for a ransom, that could work.  Or it could make them just kill the victim so there are no witnesses.

Offline FrugalFannie

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2011, 09:58:27 AM »
I think it was a typo....
I think he meant KIT
someone else brought up child abductions when talking about GPS trackers.

and I think he said Africa somewhere.

Then in that case have at it! And good luck. Hopefully the OP will be well prepared and NOT need it!

Offline RPZ

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2011, 12:01:38 PM »
Kevlar thread is widely available and will cut through flex cuffs etc. Run some lengths in pant hems etc. If you have a light jacket with a drawcord replace it with a thin kevlar rope. This can also be concealed in waist hems etc.

Kevlar tape is also available and this can be sewn into a variety of places.

If you are abducted there is a chance that your captors might relieve you of your hat, jacket, belt, shoes, boots etc. Best strategy might be to try and conceal items in all of them so that you may get lucky and be left with something that can help you.

If you manage to keep them, your shoes or boots are probably the best place of all. Accessible if your hands are tied. Choosing foortwear that is comfortable and practical for your day to day needs is a must; the trick would be to try and choose some that are the least likely to have any appeal to any of your captors. So avoid anything fashionable and name brand that is likely to be known to them, and they should be plain Jane devoid of any color or other aethetic appeal.

If you can find some with soles and heels that are on the thick side you can remove the insoles and carefully cut a small compartment inside the heel. If you get something a size or two too big for you in a narrow width (Width A or B) you might be able to stash something in the toe area. The key to both is to have everything covered and as flush and as snug as possible so that there is nothing telltale for curious probing fingers.

Be careful with razor blades in clothing as they might cut their way out of your clothes with normal movement.

A handcuff key or two is good to have. They are available in plastic polymers as well.

Small round or flat diamond (jewelers') files are good to have. As long they are long enough to hold firm you can potentially cut the hardest steel padlock etc. Go with a small round and or flat both.

You can drill holes across and through the heels of black rubber soled shoes or boots (so as not to be subject to bending forces), sleeve with thin tubing, and hide a round file cut to the right length in each heel. In identical and symetrical places closed with a dab of matching black rubber cement carefully sanded flush will look like injection moulding spots.  The files should a snug fit as not to rattle when shaken but not so tight as to make it impossible to push them out. Getting them out might be a problem but using your brain you could probably find a way. Belt buckle pin if you still have it, broken button half - anything you can use to scrape then push against the end. If your captors feed you a fork tine would do it, or the end of a pen, pencil, toothpick etc.

Anything sewn into clothing should be placed where least likely to be exposed to the palms and fingers of what most people know as a pat down of frisk "as seen on tv". You will not get much past most savvy thugs or professionals, but if they are not trained or very experienced they may not be very thorough and neglect some places and items. An example is behind the labels and patches on the rear waist of jeans etc. Under the collar of a shirt, the zipper seam area of jeans or pants.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 12:18:45 PM by RPZ »

Offline Cedar

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2011, 12:33:16 PM »
This is not the one I was thinking of, but it mught suit some purposes. http://saveyourlife.us/ResQMe.html

Plastic handcuffs, which I doubt a kidnapper would use. How to Escape From Plastic Handcuffs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB_gwYz5Mqs&feature=player_embedded

Cedar


Offline dk1138

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2011, 01:00:48 PM »
I would recommend looking to see if you can get some training on dealing with these situations.  Resistance and Escape training is incorporated into some military survival courses, and is, in my opinion, of high value. 
Some of it is classified (although looking on the web it is clear some has been made common knowledge, or perhaps reverse-engineered... Regardless, that limits what some folks are going to be able to add to the discussion). 
Although I've not researched this, I would think some of the information and training (or similar) might be available commercially.  Certainly there are "executive protection" courses out there.  It might be worth calling around to some of the tactical schools and inquiring... If they don't do it, they might be able to recommend someone who can.  Might not be cheap, but knowledge is one of the few things "they" can't take away from you.

My brother now lives in Africa and I've kind of been wondering about trying to find this kind of training for him. 

Other general thoughts: The optimal preparation and responses to an abduction situation depend on the nature, skill, and motivations of the captors.  It sounds as if you have done some research on likely threats, and I would encourage this.  A lot of this kind of prep discussion focuses on tools for hypothetical situations.  Like all the cool firearms sold to the American civilian tactical market (eg. Taurus Judge). 
Working from threats and requirements backwards to tools might be a better general plan. 

That said, I'd agree with a lot of the prior suggestions.  Do be aware of the potential impact of carrying some of these items on the perception of your innocence if you are apprehended by lawful authorities.  E.g. carrying some of this stuff discussed above in the US could get you in trouble (e.g. some laws are written so that possession of "burglary tools" in certain contexts, e.g. trespassing, implies intent).  E.g. a cop who knows why you are carrying that 550 cord in that way may or may not view it well.  Just sayin'.  YMMV. Dual-purpose and plausibly-deniable items have a role there (e.g. bobby pins).

As for tracking and emails: The GPS/cellular tracker might have value if it pings out your location regularly.  Even if destroyed or taken, it does show a trail of your movements. 

I commend you for being proactive about this and starting an interesting discussion.  I hope that the positive aspects of your new adventure outweigh the negative; be safe. 
/R
DK

Offline RPZ

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2011, 12:43:01 PM »
One general principle in abductions is that your chances of escape diminish with time. This is not absolute, just on average. Keeping a cool head, watching, analysing and weighing up each of your captors, watching for the opportunity to escape and being ready to take advantage of it from the start.

Offline zpo

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2011, 03:27:11 PM »
I'm afraid I don't remember a brand, but you should be able to find it speaking with a medical supplier.  A company recently began making shoes with a gps tracker built in.  Its for dementia patients. I'm no expert, but your shoes will probably be the last thing taken from you.

Offline LdMorgan

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2011, 11:25:48 PM »
Abductions are not just for third-world countries anymore.

And they aren't necessarily for ransom or political agendas, either.

Most of them are for sex, and/or pure sadistic pleasure--and anyone can be a target.

Ask any beautiful blonde how she feels about walking alone at night, and you'll probably get an earful.

A belt knife is an excellent tool to have handy when a life or death situation is in progress.

A gun is even better.

The best time to use it is before you get taken down.

Usually abductors leave their victims no opportunities to escape. They've probably progressed fairly far alone their anti-social learning curve and will not make basic mistakes.

If tossed into a trunk, there'll probably be a ringbolt in the floor, plus a lock and chain, so the victim can't rip out the wires to the tail lights, weapon-up with a tire iron or do any of the usual TV tricks.

Head-bagging is practically the norm nowadays.

When confiniing a victim, nothing works better than naked.

Nobody spits out a ball-gag.

The odds weigh heavily against the victim from the outset--therefore the faster the counter-strategy the greater the chance of success.

A person worried about a ransom or politically motivated abduction should never sleep in the expected place.

If you have a hotel room, maybe you can get two different people to rent adjoining rooms--so you have access to rooms A, B, & C.

Enter into A, cross B, and sleep in C.

If you have a house, don't sleep in the bedroom. Try the attic, instead. Or a cloakroom by the front door. Whatever.

Abductors will eventually find an opportunity. But sometimes you can delay it. The trick is to make yourself such a tedious target that they get frustrated and just move on to someone easier.








Offline Smith

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 01:36:09 PM »
Sew a pocket onto the inside of the waistband of all your pants.  The easiest way is to get a piece of elastic and sew it on 3 sides with the opening toward the top of the waistband.  In this pocket, put a handcuff key.  Should be self-explanatory.

Way to much effort. Handcuffs can be picked with just about anything long and wire like. I've personally done this with a paper clip about a thousand times.

Check out the scam school on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdzso5reovk

Offline The Professor

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2011, 03:24:18 PM »
Way to much effort. Handcuffs can be picked with just about anything long and wire like. I've personally done this with a paper clip about a thousand times.


Wow. . .five minutes of sewing is way too much effort? I guess that's understandable if you figure all you have to do is watch a ten-minute video THAT TELLS YOU GET A HANDCUFF KEY.

Let me just ask these following questions. . I realize it may take a bit of effort, possibly more than a couple minutes, but. . .

1.  Where are you going to keep these paperclips or pieces of wire?  In your pockets?  Perhaps jammed into your waistband?  Great.  Then try to pull them out without drawing much attention or squirming around like a worm on a hook while you first dig out the paperclip, start twisting the wire, then trying to pick the lock behind your back (especially if the abductors actually know how to apply handcuffs).

2.  Watching the video, the "escape artist" even says that the best idea is to have a . . .KEY!!  Then, he went on to the shim and paperclip ideas.  Why do you suggest not having either a proper key or taking the time to make an easily accessible pocket?

3.  If you had read the original post, you would have seen that the poster was leaving the US.  I'm sure you probably are aware that not all countries use those US-made Smith and Wesson handcuffs, like you've seen in the video.  Some of those locks are not very easily picked with a paperclip (see #4).

4.  That paperclip trick won't work on ASP handcuffs.

5.  While I'm sure you spend lots of time demonstrating your excellent ninja/mma skills in the back-alleys at nearby bars, have you ever been in a fight?  Chances are, you may get in one, or two, good licks.  Most of us may end up with injured hands or fingers resulting from trying to fight off our abductors.  I'd rather use a dedicated tool before I try to Gerry-Rig a work-around, especially since my fingers may be injured and not as dextrous (and behind my back) when an abduction happens.

The Original Poster asked for suggestions on an abduction-ready EDC.  When $1 will get you a key, I'd get the key first, spend a couple minutes sewing a small pocket inside the waistband of my pants and having the proper tool ready and easily accessible if/when I get abducted.  Having shims is a great idea, too.  They are especially useful against padlocks (either keyed or combination).

The idea here is to BE PREPARED.  Having knowledge of work-arounds is great, I guess if you lose your house keys, you can spend 10 or 15 minutes improvising a tension tool and a pick.  Me?  I'll go find my hiding place for the spare key.

I guess it's just a matter of different mindsets.  Improvisation, for me, is a last-ditch work-around, not my go-to.

The Professor

Offline Smith

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2011, 03:54:17 PM »
Wow. . .five minutes of sewing is way too much effort? I guess that's understandable if you figure all you have to do is watch a ten-minute video THAT TELLS YOU GET A HANDCUFF KEY.

Let me just ask these following questions. . I realize it may take a bit of effort, possibly more than a couple minutes, but. . .

1.  Where are you going to keep these paperclips or pieces of wire?  In your pockets?  Perhaps jammed into your waistband?  Great.  Then try to pull them out without drawing much attention or squirming around like a worm on a hook while you first dig out the paperclip, start twisting the wire, then trying to pick the lock behind your back (especially if the abductors actually know how to apply handcuffs).

2.  Watching the video, the "escape artist" even says that the best idea is to have a . . .KEY!!  Then, he went on to the shim and paperclip ideas.  Why do you suggest not having either a proper key or taking the time to make an easily accessible pocket?

You've obviously missed the point. The point is that learning the skill is MORE IMPORTANT than carrying a key in all of your clothes Mr. Bond. What are you going to do when stripped naked and left in a cell? Finding a makeshift shim is alot easier than you think.

3.  If you had read the original post, you would have seen that the poster was leaving the US.  I'm sure you probably are aware that not all countries use those US-made Smith and Wesson handcuffs, like you've seen in the video.  Some of those locks are not very easily picked with a paperclip (see #4).

4.  That paperclip trick won't work on ASP handcuffs.

Of course not. It also wont work on NORMAL S&W cuffs if you double lock them. So what? Are you suggesting that he keep a keyring of the entire rainbow of possible keys shoved up his nethers?

5.  While I'm sure you spend lots of time demonstrating your excellent ninja/mma skills in the back-alleys at nearby bars, have you ever been in a fight?  Chances are, you may get in one, or two, good licks.  Most of us may end up with injured hands or fingers resulting from trying to fight off our abductors.  I'd rather use a dedicated tool before I try to Gerry-Rig a work-around, especially since my fingers may be injured and not as dextrous (and behind my back) when an abduction happens.

Cute. Handcuff picking is hardly an assassin skill, and if you've ever actually tried to use a handcuff key while blind and properly restrained you should know that its not an easy fix. If you don't practice escape to begin with your EDC keychain is not going to help you.

The Original Poster asked for suggestions on an abduction-ready EDC.  When $1 will get you a key, I'd get the key first, spend a couple minutes sewing a small pocket inside the waistband of my pants and having the proper tool ready and easily accessible if/when I get abducted.  Having shims is a great idea, too.  They are especially useful against padlocks (either keyed or combination).

The idea here is to BE PREPARED.  Having knowledge of work-arounds is great, I guess if you lose your house keys, you can spend 10 or 15 minutes improvising a tension tool and a pick.  Me?  I'll go find my hiding place for the spare key.

I guess it's just a matter of different mindsets.  Improvisation, for me, is a last-ditch work-around, not my go-to.

You're right, I guess the awnser to the question should have been, that being abducted is not like losing your house keys. You no longer control the situation and escape is a skill, not an EDC issue. Poster should seek out one of the many schools that teach about this thing. This would be preferable to trusting in the watch lazer and exploding bubblegum.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Abduction ready EDC.
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2011, 07:23:55 PM »
You've obviously missed the point. The point is that learning the skill is MORE IMPORTANT than carrying a key in all of your clothes Mr. Bond. What are you going to do when stripped naked and left in a cell? Finding a makeshift shim is alot easier than you think.

Of course not. It also wont work on NORMAL S&W cuffs if you double lock them. So what? Are you suggesting that he keep a keyring of the entire rainbow of possible keys shoved up his nethers?


If you're stripped naked, handcuffed and shoved in a cell. . .exactly what are you going to make either shims or picks from and how will you make them?  If your attackers are going to go to all that trouble, do you really think they're going to leave paperclips, wire, soda cans, etc., laying around?  Moreover, do you REALLY think you're going to fashion some sort of work-around with your hands behind your back?

Better yet. . .have you ever spent any time (greater than what passes in the back seat of a police cruiser) wearing handcuffs?  After an hour or so, your hands are (if you're lucky)  numb.  Any dexterity is lost.  Now, add this to the very real possibility that your hands are probably behind your back and any sort of field-expedient manufacture of a work-around is going to be nigh on impossible.

See?  I can make a no-win situation, as well.  However, that's NOT what the original poster asked.

oh, and btw, a shim will work on a locked set of S&W's, especially if they've been used a while.  Locking does not fully immobilize the cuff mechanism.  You'll have to work it back and forth a bit AND use a thin piece of metal, but it can work.

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Cute. Handcuff picking is hardly an assassin skill, and if you've ever actually tried to use a handcuff key while blind and properly restrained you should know that its not an easy fix. If you don't practice escape to begin with your EDC keychain is not going to help you.

Nothing in reference to handcuff picking as an assassin skill. . .rather, I was attempting to make the point that you, more than likely, may have been abducted and have been able to initially fight back.  Again, if you've ever been in a fight that hasn't involved pads or gloves, and have worked at anything close to real speed/real strength, then you've probably walked away with bruised/injured fingers and knuckles.  This results in a loss of dexterity which means fabricating tools for fine use is going to be extremely difficult.

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You're right, I guess the awnser to the question should have been, that being abducted is not like losing your house keys. You no longer control the situation and escape is a skill, not an EDC issue. Poster should seek out one of the many schools that teach about this thing. This would be preferable to trusting in the watch lazer and exploding bubblegum.

And I will bet you that every reputable school will tell you that the proper tool beats a makeshift, field-expedient one every time. 

Since the original poster asked very specifically about what sort of KIT he could assemble and distinctly asked about tools, those were the suggestions made. 

Should a person learn field-expedient methods of escape?  Sure.  Why not?  Anyone can benefit from learning how things work.  It would be a tragedy were the original poster to be abducted and show back up here in two years relating on how he was stuck naked and handcuffed in a cell with his only friend being a tiny stick figure he made out of paperclips and soda cans.

However, the longer you're in captivity, the less your chances of escape are going to be.  If you're abducted on the street, it's highly unlikely that you'll be stripped naked immediately.  Having certain items on you that are task-specific may provide you with an opportunity you may not otherwise have early on in the scenario when your abductors have not yet fully secured your person.

So, by all means, learn how to hack a pair of handcuffs.  Learn how to escape flexicuffs.  But if it takes me 5 minutes and $1 to have a chance to do it easier, I'm taking that chance. . .if nothing else to increase the odds of my getting out.

The Professor