Author Topic: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)  (Read 23252 times)

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2013, 12:03:58 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Qx0cTze0M

The old lady referenced above — beat up after Katrina by our brave heroes.

endurance

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2013, 01:34:47 PM »
...
This has opened up the discussion with my girlfriend about why I take alternate routes to and from work all of the time, and I am always looking for new trails (*mountain biker) and finding new ways to get out of my neighborhood, new ways to get home from work (to avoid traffic jams, BUT also to get home in an emergency situation).

My girlfriend always gets irritated and confused when I take her on some crazy detour to get home (that never takes much more time than the straight / narrow path). This city confuses the hell out of people as it is.
...
This is just another reason for folks to get out and walk the dog and ride their bike.  There's no better way to discover new trails and routes than to travel at low speed through neighborhoods.  I know in Denver there are several green belts, some are heavily used and don't offer much in the way escape route because of the 'concrete corridor' nature of them, but others are hidden little routes that hardly anyone even notices.  I suspect there are some cities where a kayak (or innertube) would be a good means of escape.

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2013, 03:25:16 PM »
Waterways are weak. There is nowhere to go if you need to evade someone, and a non-motorized boat on a river / lake / whatsoever is just a weak position. Not saying it would be a bad idea to have one though... I do live in a city where having the means to cross a river without a bridge is not a a bad idea. But thinking you can just "slip away" on a boat is kinda dumb, at least here where there are locks/dams infrastructure, etc.

Bicycling and walking are your best bets for stealth travel. Walking is much easier to hide and take the off-the-beaten path — however I can cover 170 miles in a day on a bicycle and 10 hiking with a heavy load. I have never ridden a bike that far without a heavy load, but I know I could hike 20+ miles in a day carrying nothing.

My bug out vehicle would have (in an ideal situation) everything we need to car-camp for the family — a bicycle for everyone (or just to have them for additional gas-saving options from a bug out location), and then a fallback bag for everyone if it comes down to walking.

Waterways would be my last option, but a canoe does fit into the mix when I am packing the truck for family vacations.

Actually, our IDEAL situation would be one vehicle full of equipment and the car (our 2nd vehicle) for transporting the kids etc. If we had to abandon one of them, we would stash the extra gear in the car, leave it somewhere, head out with the remaining vehicle – and then bicycle back to the car later to retrieve it — or whatever makes sense to do given the situation.

The car is not 4WD and would not be able to get where I plan on camping out (going on vacation) if something happened which would cause me to leave.

I also have an all-back-roads route out of town to my bug out location — the only thing I have not really done is scout out my bug out location as much as I want to, I know many other wild areas near me much better than the one I intend to travel to in a situation. I also have more than one location picked out (north, south, east, and west) depending on what direction I am "forced" to travel.

The place I have picked out as the "default" is halfway between where I live and where I grew up and would be a good central location for family and friends to meet up that we can all reach within a half-day's to one day drive. Normally it is a 4 hour drive to where I grew up from here, but the roads I would take would make that 12 hours total, with NO traffic.

I also know tons of places to hide out and camp in between here and there.

Short of being stuck at work and having to travel home to gear-up and gather everyone who is joining us, I could be packed up and ready to leave in about an hour. 2 hours to be very thorough. Not as good as I want to be — but 2 hours after the Boston bombings I think people were still free to travel in their city. Even if it took me 5 to get my act together I would still be long gone before the martial law broke out.

Offline Vakota

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2013, 08:06:39 AM »
But they already are kicking in doors without a warrant and shooting people in their sleep followed by, " ops wrong door". 

And Look at how many cases of cops beating folks who are handcuffed, or handcuffing/ zip tying for no reason or the lady that was cavity searched on a highway for speeding.  They aren't accountable to the people any more.

And mayor in the city I moved from said you're rights are suspended the minute you are pulled over.  The world as we knew it is already gone.  Cops were suppose to be our neighbors and friends who protected us.  But now they are nationalized and unionized and have an 'us against them' (them meaning citizens) mentality.  Not of all of them of course, but a lot. 


Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2013, 08:30:50 AM »
That's why, at least where I live — why the people who are NOT cops don't want to be friends with, or have anything to do with cops.

EVERYONE I talk to from ALL WALKS of life (not just the cool people like me) will share that sentiment. "Oh, he/she's a cop, stay away from him/her."

The city police are SO BAD here that a Sheriff's Deputy I know said that nobody in the Sheriff's department will even hang out with a city cop here. "They are a bunch of dumb ass ignorant piece of s#!t thugs!" were his exact words on the subject. From what he says, the entire Sheriff's department hates and can't stand the city police here.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2013, 09:20:21 AM »
MODERATOR REMINDER: Topic is "Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)", not "I hate cops".

Offline Greekman

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2013, 11:11:57 AM »
indeed, and there is some points not covered much.

- how to communicate with relatives in town without use of cellphones....
- is it good advice to seek refuge at motels & hotels away from the mass populated part of town (ergo tempting targets)

(I hope I put the thread back on track with these)

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2013, 11:26:38 AM »
indeed, and there is some points not covered much.

- how to communicate with relatives in town without use of cellphones....
- is it good advice to seek refuge at motels & hotels away from the mass populated part of town (ergo tempting targets)

Have an SOP in place that includes plans such as holding up together in one place, meeting somewhere out of the city, land lines, or radios.

I would think that motels and hotels would be just as vulnerable as homes if one exists in the area of lockdown.  At least when you are home you have all the resources of your preps, including the fact that you can attempt to protect it if you are there.

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2013, 12:45:33 PM »
Quote
how to communicate with relatives in town without use of cellphones....

That's a good one to consider.

Obviously there are ways to connect if you can get on the internet somehow — but in that case you probably have a phone.

There aren't really many payphones out there these days either.

The one thing I can think of off the top of my head — which would be FREE, would be to set up a free Google Voice number and give everyone in your group the access code to the voicemail.

You could use it to leave messages to your group and receive messages from the group, whenever you have a chance to get to a place where you can access it. Messages can be viewed as text in a browser, email, etc etc., copies can be emailed to individual email accounts as they arrive, and you can dial-in on any line to access the voicemail system.

Not IDEAL obviously, but quicker than the USPS and works if you don't have a physical address.

Reminds about something we did when I was a kid.

We used to do "collect calls" on the payphones to our parents after soccer practice. And because they were automated, my mom would get a call something like...

Phone: "Hello, this is Sprint — You have a collect call from... 'MA! We're done with soccer practice come pick us up!' ... do you accept these charges?"

Mom: "NO"

Then she would come pick us up and not get charged $2 for the call.

Just gotta figure out how to use their system against them is all!

endurance

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2013, 04:58:29 PM »
There are the options of satellite communication, HAMs and CB radios.  Single Side Band (SSB) CB radios are pretty reliable for 10-15 miles and depending on conditions, sometimes a lot further.  It's also one of the original social networks where you can communicate with hundreds or thousands of individuals if you want to coordinate with others either in or out of your group.  Regarding satellite communications, it's not just about sat phones.  Some of the newer GPS/satellite communicators have texting capabilities.  http://www.inreachdelorme.com/

Just a few other options to consider besides smoke signals. ;)

Offline Canadian Prepper

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2013, 12:44:46 AM »
I've just recently gotten my HAM license and am putting together a paper about its application to emergency managers, but the Boston bombing and the virtual lockdown is leaving me more convinced about its usefullness towards such scenarios in the future.

For starters, there's the desirability of having alternate means of communications for when cellphone and other services get overloaded, which appears to have happened right after the attack on Monday. A couple handheld 2m, or perhaps dual band radios would have been handy for communicating with loved ones and even tracking some of the emergency response.

Second, if we're getting lockdown and house searches over an incident of the size of last Friday's running gun battle (not to belittle legitimate concerns about protecting the public, or further issues like limiting the ability of attackers to detonate bombs with cell phones, or track police movements and communicate with other plotters through other electronic media, etc) it seems even more prudent to have forms of communications that could work around a localized communications blackout that might be imposed in the aftermath of future attacks. I'm particularly interested in learning more about how digital radio could transmit emails and other data in in the event of an internet shutdown but also any other options that are out there. Perhaps that's thinking way ahead of where we're at now, but I'm evem more inclined than before to expect the authorities to err on the side of caution in a ways that can be very restrictive on those trapped in the area under attack.

Speaking more specifically to the issue of last week's lockdown of Boston, I wonder about how the house searches might effect how we store our supplies or put on a good face before the authorities when they pass by. Had the left's wildest fantasies been satisfied by an attack perpetrated by the "right wing extremists" which they rail about, I'm pretty sure that the police would have taken note during their searches of those residences that had visible stockpiles of supplies, large gun safes in mancaves, etc. Even with a dangerous suspect on the loose, I can imagine a sour reaction by the authorities towards those who respond to a doorbell wearing an LBE with body armour, or look as though they are armed and ready to confront any maurading terrorists that they've been warned about.

And while I don't mean to get into a debate about what should have happened last week, the events leave me wondering how the police would have reacted towards any vehicle they came across that was filled with people clearly trying to leave the city. If someone loaded their car up first thing in the morning and left right around the time the lockdown was declared (one might have had sufficient reason to do that based on accounts of what happened the night before, independent of any announcement by the authorities in the morning) what would the cops say or do about that? Might it be prudent on occasion to be proactive about "getting out of Dodge" when one expects an attack to lead to a lockdown, or does that open people up to more trouble than it's worth?  Does last week's events provide more reasong to get a scanner in order to realize a crisis is happening before the lockdown ensues, or even to get around roadblocks in the event that someone is already on the road?

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2013, 07:58:58 AM »
That InReach system looks nice, but that is quite expensive for the small number of messages you are allowed. I'm not saying I want to sit in the wilderness and text like my teenage daughter — but still, that is quite expensive for the little use it would get.

Offline Vakota

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2013, 08:03:34 AM »
YES Canadian prepper - I agree completely!

It's better to get out of dodge before the lock down.  If there's no lock down then no harm done.  Spend the night somewhere and come back the next day.  But, if you have a van loaded down with supplies and are trying to leave the area after a lock down you may find you and your family accused of being a terrorist or at the very least 'held to determine your intent'.   So much for all of your supplies and preparing.  I doubt you would get those things back.  (I sometimes bang my head on the desk knowing that we are even having these conversations in the land of the free  :'()

I fear the 'round up phase' is coming sooner rather than later.


Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2013, 08:29:30 AM »
I think things will die down for a bit. They just celebrated their Illuminati holiday (April 19th) with quite a show for all of us. The banksters got to test the public by robbing bank accounts in Cypress and seeing how willingly the population will submit to martial law here in the states.

However, no reason we shouldn't be ready for it when it does happen.

endurance

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2013, 10:39:55 AM »
That InReach system looks nice, but that is quite expensive for the small number of messages you are allowed. I'm not saying I want to sit in the wilderness and text like my teenage daughter — but still, that is quite expensive for the little use it would get.
Ultimately, it's technology like this that is giving me the long leash this summer with my wife that will allow me to hike the 480 mile Colorado Trail alone.  In that context, $25 a month is cheap. ;D

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2013, 11:59:01 AM »
Yeah, I agree — and I doubt you are sending your wife 1,000 texts a day like my teenage daughter sends her friends. I mean, you are going out to the woods to run away from your wife — and you described it yourself as a "leash." So yeah! I bet it works out great!

Hahaha...

"Oh! Gotta Go honey! About to reach my message limit!!!"

Offline MTUCache

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2013, 12:28:08 PM »
Ultimately, it's technology like this that is giving me the long leash this summer with my wife that will allow me to hike the 480 mile Colorado Trail alone.  In that context, $25 a month is cheap. ;D
Is that the cost for the Iridium SMS service? Is there a messaging limits on that, or is that based on a data limit?

Sorry to take this so off course, but the ever-reducing cost and ever-expanding capabilities of the low orbit sat-networks are going to catch up to the terrestrial based services pretty quickly.... this is something I'm fascinated by.

endurance

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2013, 02:09:05 PM »
Is that the cost for the Iridium SMS service? Is there a messaging limits on that, or is that based on a data limit?

Sorry to take this so off course, but the ever-reducing cost and ever-expanding capabilities of the low orbit sat-networks are going to catch up to the terrestrial based services pretty quickly.... this is something I'm fascinated by.
No, this is specific to the Delorme InReach system.  It's primarily a GPS locator that can be used to send distress signals or allow tracking, but it also has the capability of sending and receiving text messages.  $25/month gets you 40 two-way texts, plus monitoring and tracking.  I'm planning on buying a seasonal plan (four months) then going to the $9.95 emergency plan until next summer.

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2013, 09:02:34 AM »
From looking at the crummy screen keyboard on that thing — I doubt I could ever reach the text message limit in a month's time!

I can barely screen-type on my smartphone.

endurance

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2013, 09:33:07 AM »
From looking at the crummy screen keyboard on that thing — I doubt I could ever reach the text message limit in a month's time!

I can barely screen-type on my smartphone.
That's why you can sync with your smartphone and use it for typing (which is why I have an old school phone with a keyboard instead of a touch screen).

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2013, 11:52:35 AM »
That's pretty cool. A lot of batteries and electronics to deal with while backpacking, but technology always gets more fun as the days roll on.

endurance

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2013, 12:51:43 PM »
That's pretty cool. A lot of batteries and electronics to deal with while backpacking, but technology always gets more fun as the days roll on.
My cell phone, the InReach, and my iPod all can be recharged off of a USB charger.  The cell phone will be off except in the evening so I can attempt to text or call my wife to check in.  My trip will have the opportunity to recharge batteries every five days.  My cell phone battery lasts about 12 hours (but if it's off, it'll hold a charge for weeks), my iPod Nano (gen 5) battery is tiny but  still provides 20-24 hours of life on a 800ma battery, which I can charge about four times with my 4mah back up battery, and the InReach's 100 hour battery life will allow continuous tracking for 12 hours a day at 60 minute intervals for a week or longer.  I can be pinged so friends can get up to the minute location checks without having to use up messages.

I feel like I took a lot of unnecessary chances in my youth before this technology came out.  Luck was on my side, but now I can increase my margin of error and reassure my wife that all is well even when I'm 20 miles from the nearest cell tower.  Life is good.

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2013, 02:16:40 PM »
Even though my goal when I go backpacking is for nobody to be able to reach me for any reason whatsoever, I still take the portable electronics.

Quote
My cell phone battery lasts about 12 hours (but if it's off, it'll hold a charge for weeks)

You may find that your phone's batter performs extremely well where it can't get a signal — OR it will deplete 10x faster than normal when it can't find a cell signal (i've seen both instances before).

I load up my android phone with offline maps and use it as a GPS when I travel, but keep the phone off until I want to check my position. I've found I can go 3 or 4 days without running the standard battery dry on the last Android phone I had (HTC Evo 4G) — but I just had to replace that one since it was about to kick the bucket — and I've yet to take Samsung Galaxy S3 out like that.

I also found that the old phone would boot from a power off state IMMEDIATELY when it is in the wilderness, yet takes 10 minutes to boot when it CAN get a signal (who knows why that is the case).

While the Evo did great on trips where it can't get a signal. However, I've also had phones that would go from a full charge to completely dead in less than a few hours because the phone never stops looking for a signal until it finds one.

endurance

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2013, 07:28:48 PM »
Yes, I'm planning on downloading all the maps for my trip for my phone in my BackCountry Navigator Pro app.  That said, having the GPS on all the time will kill the battery pretty quick, so most of the time my phone will be of and used for evening and emergency comms only.  The CT is so damn well marked and traveled that you don't need a map, just the trail data book so you know the distances to water, camping, towns, roads, etc.  I'm doing this trip as much as a social event as I am for the physical challenge.  The buddy of mine that did this two years ago met some very cool folks along the way and I'm looking forward to that kind of traveling kinship.

Offline Adam Campbell

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2013, 01:44:14 PM »
The Android App I use for offline maps is "Locus Map" (and I only use the free version). It works really well, and has access to a whole bunch of topo and street maps. You define a square area and which resolution levels you want to download, and you can even import complete placemark sets from any Google Maps placemark set you have saved in Google Maps.

I've used it for both driving, hiking, biking, and general navigation when I am outside the range of any internet signal.

Offline Prodigy

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2013, 04:41:05 PM »
There's been many scenarios that have scared me (and/or my wife). From the NATO protests last year, to terrorist threats, to train accidents... it seems we can't go a month between something that makes me question why I stay around this city (on top of all the liberty-oriented reasons to leave Illinois) and put myself in harm's way five days per week. Because of those types of things I have started staying home from work quite a bit more than I (or my boss) would like. Any kind of impending news or disturbance that I get wind of has me considering staying home from work, and I've done it on numerous occasions.

You are clearly a very intelligent person, so apologies if you already considered this - but if so maybe it will help remind others.  I just wanted to say 'be careful' because if you are overly paranoid (naturally there is a gray area between overly paranoid and healthy paranoid) you may lose your job and then you'll be in a personal SHTF scenario.  I guess that fits with Jacks probability of disasters theory - you are much more likely to be fired from your job than to have to deal with a terrorist attack or city lockdown in Chicago while you are at work.

Offline carbon

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2013, 03:47:16 AM »
With my current work situation I can get home through predetermined routes. We do have a plan to meet at certain locations (written instructions) but the best way for us is for me to get home where my family would be waiting. At some point we would then assess if we can get out further, but hunker down for the time being.

And yes a good backup comm should be part of the plan.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Trapped in a City Lockdown (a scenario)
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2013, 10:32:48 AM »
Y'know, and this is definitely wandering a bit off-topic but still within the constraints of this particular discussion:

Endurance is heading out into the Great American Outback for a bit of Walkabout.  I've not really thought this much through, since I would use my amateur radio with "field expedient" antennae for comms (at least what I'd need for comms).

But. .. I remember seeing various options for extending WiFi (waveguides, yagis, double helices, etc.).  I wonder if anyone's played with a compact cellphone booster that you could take in the hinterlands?

I mean, I'm sure someone has. . .consider it a leading question.

The Professor