Author Topic: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin  (Read 44704 times)

Offline Greekman

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2016, 11:26:17 AM »
sparkeled my interest and did a google IMAGE search for the radiation pattern.
Had some success with the WEDP and the double-zepp antenna keywords

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2016, 12:48:33 PM »
I can see how it does.

Actually I am trying to solve a problem with mine SH.  I am not getting the performance with mine that I think I should.  I'm not sure what I'm basing that on except my expectations.  Expectations too high?

Difficulty making contacts on several bands etc.  Have no trouble receiving.  Tuner tunes all bands, SWR acceptable.   

I paid a lot of attention to detail during my build so I hope I didn't miss anything.  Ladder line is 17 feet.  Long wire is 92 feet.  I did wonder about this though.  This say http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html 92 feet is a multiple to avoid.  Could this be an issue. 

Thoughts?
FF

Welcome to amateur radio :)

Seriously, there are days that the bands are shot dead, and I'm just certain something in my station is broken.  If it was not for the internet, and the ability to cross check with local hams, I'd probably go crazy at times myself.

Here's what I'd do:

1) check the band conditions in your area. Often at least one band is workable.
2) if you run digital modes you can call CQ and often various spotting stations will automatically report hearing you
See: https://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html

#2 recently changed my whole outlook on DXing.  When I noticed that stations in Indonesia and Brazil were logging reception reports for my callsign, I got really inspired.  Some folks aren't into digital, and that's cool - but is a way to stretch you TX signal a bit further when bands are not great.

In summary, folks not answering you doesn't mean they can't hear you.  There are many reasons, don't take it personally.

For me, 15 meters is my new favorite DX band.  Because of my QTH in the northwest US, I cover most of the pacific rim.  Lots of Japan, some eastern Russia, Oceania, and if I'm lucky Australia and New Zealand.  Like 20 meters it's only good in the day time. 

All things equal, the lower frequencies tend to be noisier, or at least more sensitive to noise. 


Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2016, 12:56:53 PM »
Welcome to amateur radio :)

Seriously, there are days that the bands are shot dead, and I'm just certain something in my station is broken.  If it was not for the internet, and the ability to cross check with local hams, I'd probably go crazy at times myself.

Here's what I'd do:

1) check the band conditions in your area. Often at least one band is workable.
2) if you run digital modes you can call CQ and often various spotting stations will automatically report hearing you
See: https://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html

#2 recently changed my whole outlook on DXing.  When I noticed that stations in Indonesia and Brazil were logging reception reports for my callsign, I got really inspired.  Some folks aren't into digital, and that's cool - but is a way to stretch you TX signal a bit further when bands are not great.

In summary, folks not answering you doesn't mean they can't hear you.  There are many reasons, don't take it personally.

For me, 15 meters is my new favorite DX band.  Because of my QTH in the northwest US, I cover most of the pacific rim.  Lots of Japan, some eastern Russia, Oceania, and if I'm lucky Australia and New Zealand.  Like 20 meters it's only good in the day time. 

All things equal, the lower frequencies tend to be noisier, or at least more sensitive to noise.

I get it.  Maybe I'm looking for something to be wrong, IDK.  I have had 4 sessions over 6 days with few contacts so it has me skeptical.  Am I reading too much into my 92 feet long line as being a length to avoid SH?

http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/randomWire/

FF

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2016, 01:31:16 PM »
I get it.  Maybe I'm looking for something to be wrong, IDK.  I have had 4 sessions over 6 days with few contacts so it has me skeptical.  Am I reading too much into my 92 feet long line as being a length to avoid SH?

http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/randomWire/

FF

If you are really convinced the length is a factor, you can fold it over on itself and the RF will think you cut it shorter.

Your setup appears superior to my own.  I have a ham friend that lives across the valley from me.  Our elevations are probably about the same, but he has a lot less QRM in his neighborhood, and his antenna is actually outside hanging from trees, where mine is in my attic.

He'll message me on FB and brag he just had some exotic QSO and I can't hear diddley squat when I tune to his freq.  If you can RX a clean signal, you are probably in a good situation, and you just need to be patient.  You might also want to play with NVIS at some point if you want more regional contacts.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2016, 02:19:42 PM »
No, I'm on convinced at all.  It's just a new style antenna for me and a new installation and having not been able to make that many contacts I'm a little suspect.
FF

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2016, 06:39:46 PM »
No, I'm on convinced at all.  It's just a new style antenna for me and a new installation and having not been able to make that many contacts I'm a little suspect.
FF

Rest assured that if you can hear them...they can most likely hear you as the path is the same. I work 20 meters for 2 hours a day and often only make 3 or 4 contacts though I admit that I try to share info with my contacts and often people just want to do me to say they did...Contact without CONTENT is just a waste..and so many people seem to think that Ham is all about the contact...it is not.

Offline Canadian Prepper

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2016, 07:28:43 PM »
I can see how it does.

Actually I am trying to solve a problem with mine SH.  I am not getting the performance with mine that I think I should.  I'm not sure what I'm basing that on except my expectations.  Expectations too high?

Difficulty making contacts on several bands etc.  Have no trouble receiving.  Tuner tunes all bands, SWR acceptable.   

I paid a lot of attention to detail during my build so I hope I didn't miss anything.  Ladder line is 17 feet.  Long wire is 92 feet.  I did wonder about this though.  This say http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html 92 feet is a multiple to avoid.  Could this be an issue. 

Thoughts?
FF

I've got a couple thoughts on the matter that I think will add reasons to remain optimistic.

While the link you refer to may be correct to tell you to shy away from 92 feet, keep in mind that the total radiating length includes the 17 feet of ladder line. The second wire in the ladder line serves the role that the separate 17 foot wire (or in my case two of them) play in my wire only version of the design (which is how they were originally made).

I would highly recommend logging all of your activity, including times and signal reports, etc., as that will teach you invaluable knowledge. I'll share a few of my observations about the different bands which should help you to figure out some of the difficulty you may be having.

For starters, these antennas are great for 80 and 40m but with a small caveat. The length of the wire really helps with RX and TX in a manner that few shorter, compromise antennas can, but given the catch is that very few of us can get our wires high enough to afford us a low angle of radiation, turning it into a semi-NVIS antenna. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because during the day absorbsion in the ionosphere limits those bands to within several hundred miles. Those bands are quieter in the wintertime and at night, and will even get further distance at those times, but you shouldn't expect DX, even if that fellow with the Yagi on a seventy foot tower near Milan keeps booming through. You might also hear a bunch of distant stations with amplifiers that are hard to talk to, but I wouldn't let that trouble you.

The good thing about the 80 and 40 meter bands with a W3EDP antenna is that you'll be able to consistently talk to people within several hundred miles either during the daytime or night, which makes it an excellent band for EMCOMM or prepper purposes. I would recommend researching the times and frequencies for several local nets, probably ARES groups, SATERN, etc., and then try checking into them regularly. People on those nets will be more than happy to give signal reports, and if some people can't hear you well, others probably can, which will give you hints as to how the antenna operates.

Moving up to 20m you'll be limited to daytime use, and will get best DX results with areas that are still in sunlight when you call. Add in the approximately 500 mile radius skip zone around you and it should be self-explanatory that most nets will consist of a good proportion of stations not being able hear each other, but that by working as relays most people could get through. I would highly recommend listening to the 14.300 Intercon and Maritime Mobile Service Nets over several hours with the radio on in the background. Sometimes the NCS will boom in, while others (and they're located all over the US and Canada) will be inaudible.

Over here, I find that 20m works pretty good across N. America outside of my skip zone throughout the day, and that I could sometimes get DX with Europe from mid morning to early afternoon, depending upon whether or not the sun is still up in Europe. I would recommend researching several nets and trying to contact them at different times. For the most part, you probably won't touch 20m during the nighttime. Keep in mind that a 20 foot height isn't ideal for 20m (33 feet would be ideal) but the bandwidth is short enough to allow significant skip and distances (whether across the US or DX) so you'll probably still find it useful. For EMCOMM purposes, 20m can still play a role, but to use Katrina as an example, you might have had stations up around where you are relaying information down to hams in the regions that were hit (Carl might have some more info on this).

I get a fair bit of use on my antenna on 17 and to a lesser extent 15m, but keep in mind that they are essentially daytime bands (for both stations). On 17 I can often hear only one of two stations during a chat between them, but frequently can connect and comfortably hold a lengthy conversation with the other station. I find that I'm quite regularly talking in the afternoon from here (in Ontario) with stations in the US NW to SW. I find 15m to be a bit more temperamental, though as with 17 I can get a fair bit of DX from Europe if I time it right (keeping in mind the season).

On 10m, the band can be good for local SSB or FM nets that usually cover an area slightly larger than one might usually cover on VHF/UHF with a repeater, and that's at both daytime and during the night. For lengthier contacts, it's essentially a daytime band at both locations (sometimes in the winter it gives about two or three hours of excellent DX to Europe from about 10am to maybe 1pm. Because the skip over such distances can be quite variable and often the reliance on band openings, the band is essentially a short range EMCOMM option or great to DX for fun, though I wouldn't expect to consistently hit someone in Europe from one day to the next. Again, I would highly recommend researching your local nets and giving them a try. 12m is naturally similar, but I spend much less time there given the much smaller range of frequencies.

I haven't played much with 6m as one of my radios only goes up to 10m, but it might be worth checking into whether there's any local SSB or FM nets around you, and it can have some openings. but that's really on my to do list.

As you might imagine from the above, when I first got into the hobby and started randomly surfing through the bands, things sounded painfully quiet when I'd scan a band like 10m at night when it was essentially dead, or 40 or 80m during the daytime without knowledge of local nets, and sometimes at first got frustrated when I heard stations across the bands with amplifiers talking from afar as if only to tease me. After some practice and keeping track of my contacts however, I've discovered that I can check into all sorts of nets on different bands at the appropriate times and maximize DXing for fun by choosing the times that I search for them according to what works in my area.

If everything is tuning properly, I'd play around with the antenna at different times over the next few weeks and try checking into the local or regional nets that you should be able to uncover with one or two Google searches. Also keep in mind that propagation has its highs and lows (you can check any of several sites to get a prediction for your area based on the solar weather on a given day), so it will take a bit of practice to determine whether or not your success or failure with checking into a net is simply a consequence of unusual conditions on a given day.

Keep in mind that the wintertime is generally better for a bunch of bands (less noise on 40 and 80, and I seem to get more DX on the higher bands at this time of the year, so that's variable). It should be self evident by all of this that the unlicensed prepper who pulls his new radio out of it's foil wrapper/Faraday cage after an emergency will wish that he or she had worked with it sooner.

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2016, 04:27:59 AM »
 :clap: Your description of the conditions and traits of the HF bands is quite good. These bands were gifted ,on a secondary basis,to Hams years ago as they were considered too temperamental and not acceptable for commercial use....Hams have learned to take advantage of weather,time of day,seasonal changes to use the potential of HF as an advantage....like surfing...one must learn to work WITH nature rather than against it.

Including both vertical and horizontal elements in the length of your antenna can aide in take-off angle and allow good operation for both NVIS and DX stations.The wire length will mostly effect tuning with slight change in effectiveness.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2016, 07:11:28 AM »
I've got a couple thoughts on the matter that I think will add reasons to remain optimistic.

While the link you refer to may be correct to tell you to shy away from 92 feet, keep in mind that the total radiating length includes the 17 feet of ladder line. The second wire in the ladder line serves the role that the separate 17 foot wire (or in my case two of them) play in my wire only version of the design (which is how they were originally made).

I would highly recommend logging all of your activity, including times and signal reports, etc., as that will teach you invaluable knowledge. I'll share a few of my observations about the different bands which should help you to figure out some of the difficulty you may be having.

For starters, these antennas are great for 80 and 40m but with a small caveat. The length of the wire really helps with RX and TX in a manner that few shorter, compromise antennas can, but given the catch is that very few of us can get our wires high enough to afford us a low angle of radiation, turning it into a semi-NVIS antenna. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because during the day absorbsion in the ionosphere limits those bands to within several hundred miles. Those bands are quieter in the wintertime and at night, and will even get further distance at those times, but you shouldn't expect DX, even if that fellow with the Yagi on a seventy foot tower near Milan keeps booming through. You might also hear a bunch of distant stations with amplifiers that are hard to talk to, but I wouldn't let that trouble you.

The good thing about the 80 and 40 meter bands with a W3EDP antenna is that you'll be able to consistently talk to people within several hundred miles either during the daytime or night, which makes it an excellent band for EMCOMM or prepper purposes. I would recommend researching the times and frequencies for several local nets, probably ARES groups, SATERN, etc., and then try checking into them regularly. People on those nets will be more than happy to give signal reports, and if some people can't hear you well, others probably can, which will give you hints as to how the antenna operates.

Moving up to 20m you'll be limited to daytime use, and will get best DX results with areas that are still in sunlight when you call. Add in the approximately 500 mile radius skip zone around you and it should be self-explanatory that most nets will consist of a good proportion of stations not being able hear each other, but that by working as relays most people could get through. I would highly recommend listening to the 14.300 Intercon and Maritime Mobile Service Nets over several hours with the radio on in the background. Sometimes the NCS will boom in, while others (and they're located all over the US and Canada) will be inaudible.

Over here, I find that 20m works pretty good across N. America outside of my skip zone throughout the day, and that I could sometimes get DX with Europe from mid morning to early afternoon, depending upon whether or not the sun is still up in Europe. I would recommend researching several nets and trying to contact them at different times. For the most part, you probably won't touch 20m during the nighttime. Keep in mind that a 20 foot height isn't ideal for 20m (33 feet would be ideal) but the bandwidth is short enough to allow significant skip and distances (whether across the US or DX) so you'll probably still find it useful. For EMCOMM purposes, 20m can still play a role, but to use Katrina as an example, you might have had stations up around where you are relaying information down to hams in the regions that were hit (Carl might have some more info on this).

I get a fair bit of use on my antenna on 17 and to a lesser extent 15m, but keep in mind that they are essentially daytime bands (for both stations). On 17 I can often hear only one of two stations during a chat between them, but frequently can connect and comfortably hold a lengthy conversation with the other station. I find that I'm quite regularly talking in the afternoon from here (in Ontario) with stations in the US NW to SW. I find 15m to be a bit more temperamental, though as with 17 I can get a fair bit of DX from Europe if I time it right (keeping in mind the season).

On 10m, the band can be good for local SSB or FM nets that usually cover an area slightly larger than one might usually cover on VHF/UHF with a repeater, and that's at both daytime and during the night. For lengthier contacts, it's essentially a daytime band at both locations (sometimes in the winter it gives about two or three hours of excellent DX to Europe from about 10am to maybe 1pm. Because the skip over such distances can be quite variable and often the reliance on band openings, the band is essentially a short range EMCOMM option or great to DX for fun, though I wouldn't expect to consistently hit someone in Europe from one day to the next. Again, I would highly recommend researching your local nets and giving them a try. 12m is naturally similar, but I spend much less time there given the much smaller range of frequencies.

I haven't played much with 6m as one of my radios only goes up to 10m, but it might be worth checking into whether there's any local SSB or FM nets around you, and it can have some openings. but that's really on my to do list.

As you might imagine from the above, when I first got into the hobby and started randomly surfing through the bands, things sounded painfully quiet when I'd scan a band like 10m at night when it was essentially dead, or 40 or 80m during the daytime without knowledge of local nets, and sometimes at first got frustrated when I heard stations across the bands with amplifiers talking from afar as if only to tease me. After some practice and keeping track of my contacts however, I've discovered that I can check into all sorts of nets on different bands at the appropriate times and maximize DXing for fun by choosing the times that I search for them according to what works in my area.

If everything is tuning properly, I'd play around with the antenna at different times over the next few weeks and try checking into the local or regional nets that you should be able to uncover with one or two Google searches. Also keep in mind that propagation has its highs and lows (you can check any of several sites to get a prediction for your area based on the solar weather on a given day), so it will take a bit of practice to determine whether or not your success or failure with checking into a net is simply a consequence of unusual conditions on a given day.

Keep in mind that the wintertime is generally better for a bunch of bands (less noise on 40 and 80, and I seem to get more DX on the higher bands at this time of the year, so that's variable). It should be self evident by all of this that the unlicensed prepper who pulls his new radio out of it's foil wrapper/Faraday cage after an emergency will wish that he or she had worked with it sooner.

I salute you sir!  I thank you for taking the time to give me this detailed information.  I helps me understand this on a different level.  Thanks very much for this very helpful post!  :clap:
FF

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2016, 07:13:07 AM »
:clap: Your description of the conditions and traits of the HF bands is quite good. These bands were gifted ,on a secondary basis,to Hams years ago as they were considered too temperamental and not acceptable for commercial use....Hams have learned to take advantage of weather,time of day,seasonal changes to use the potential of HF as an advantage....like surfing...one must learn to work WITH nature rather than against it.

Including both vertical and horizontal elements in the length of your antenna can aide in take-off angle and allow good operation for both NVIS and DX stations.The wire length will mostly effect tuning with slight change in effectiveness.

Surfing!  What a great analogy!  Thanks very much Carl!
FF

Offline Canadian Prepper

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2016, 10:40:37 PM »
Hi FF!

I was glad to have been of help. I'd hate to get struck by a bus or lightning and have all that knowledge lost, so it's my pleasure to put it out there for others to use.

Sometimes substandard conditions provide an opportunity to learn some additional skills. I just checked into a new 40m HF net tonight that was tough to follow at first, but got through when conditions improved a bit and was able to relay another station that couldn't get through into net control. It really adds a sense of satisfaction to be able to do that for someone on occasion, especially since it almost seemed as though I wouldn't even check in.

Perhaps I'm just discovering them now, but it feels like there's a an uptick in prepper or right of center HF nets as of late, and more people checking into the ones that have already been around for a while. If you're in the Northwest, I would recommend taking a look at www.amrron.com and trying out a couple of their voice and digital nets.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2016, 09:56:26 AM »
Posting this for encouragement, not to boast...

I stayed home sick from work yesterday.  After a nap and some soup, I started working some DX.  My voice was hurting, and I wanted to maximize my TX range, so I went with JT65 to see what I could find.

This is slightly redacted for OPSEC, but look what a wire inside my attic could do in an afternoon:



South America seems to really dig 10 meters, but I'm more proud of my New Zealand contact on 15 meters.
All I did was exchange signal reports, but the more QSOs I log, the more data I collect and the more I understand propagation patterns.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2016, 10:58:24 AM »
That's fantastic SH.  Good work!
FF

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2016, 12:25:00 PM »
Posting this for encouragement, not to boast...

I stayed home sick from work yesterday.  After a nap and some soup, I started working some DX.  My voice was hurting, and I wanted to maximize my TX range, so I went with JT65 to see what I could find.

This is slightly redacted for OPSEC, but look what a wire inside my attic could do in an afternoon:



South America seems to really dig 10 meters, but I'm more proud of my New Zealand contact on 15 meters.
All I did was exchange signal reports, but the more QSOs I log, the more data I collect and the more I understand propagation patterns.

 :clap: :tinfoily:< in place of HAM RADIO smiley

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2016, 08:53:39 AM »
UPDATE:

I moved one end of my Zepp higher.  So one end is now at 18 feet and the other is about 35 feet so I guess it's a sloping Zepp.  It improved things a great deal for me.  I was able to make contact more readily and got better signal reports.  So I guess my problem was height.  Imagine that, a ham who's antenna wasn't high enough..... :facepalm:

The high end is temporarily over a tree limb in a tall pine.  I say temporary because I don't like using trees because of the common pitfalls.  Wind, abrasion etc.  So i'm not sure what the permanent fix is.  Pole?  Mast?  Suggestion?

I wanted to post a snap shot from my QRZ.com log like SH did but I'm not that talented.......
FF
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 09:05:00 AM by Freedom Forged »

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2016, 10:03:11 AM »
UPDATE:

I moved one end of my Zepp higher.  So one end is now at 18 feet and the other is about 35 feet so I guess it's a sloping Zepp.  It improved things a great deal for me.  I was able to make contact more readily and got better signal reports.  So I guess my problem was height.  Imagine that, a ham who's antenna wasn't high enough..... :facepalm:

The high end is temporarily over a tree limb in a tall pine.  I say temporary because I don't like using trees because of the common pitfalls.  Wind, abrasion etc.  So i'm not sure what the permanent fix is.  Pole?  Mast?  Suggestion?

I wanted to post a snap shot from my QRZ.com log like SH did but I'm not that talented.......
FF

Consider a weather balloon, or perhaps an autonomous drone...  :excited:

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2016, 01:11:00 PM »
The weather balloon might turn it into a vertical.  Hmmm, that might work too!
FF

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #77 on: September 20, 2016, 05:11:11 AM »
I wanted a smaller/shorter all band antenna and discovered someone beat me to it with a HALF SIZE W3EDP at 42 feet long it works on 6 through 80 meters and can be built with 300 ohm TV TWIN LEAD or Latter Line ...most any parallel line will work. You use a 4 to one balum to 8 1/2 feet twin lead wire and 33.5 feet of any wire suitable for an antenna.

https://thewakesileave.wordpress.com/2016/08/15/a-42-portable-multiband-hf-antenna-with-no-wire-on-the-ground-the-w3edp-jr/

Offline Greekman

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #78 on: September 20, 2016, 05:59:32 AM »
great Carl! one more tool for the toolbox!

Quote
The weather balloon might turn it into a vertical.  Hmmm, that might work too!
not necessarily...remember you can tether it at any height and adjustably too.
So you get the slope you want ANY time.

question.do ballon get tethered with one line or three?

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2016, 05:58:22 PM »
I wanted a smaller/shorter all band antenna and discovered someone beat me to it with a HALF SIZE W3EDP at 42 feet long it works on 6 through 80 meters and can be built with 300 ohm TV TWIN LEAD or Latter Line ...most any parallel line will work. You use a 4 to one balum to 8 1/2 feet twin lead wire and 33.5 feet of any wire suitable for an antenna.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM  I like how it can do 80m without taking up a ginormous amount of room.  Looks like a practical solution to a problem I've been wrestling with.  I mean, this could be the answer for a trail and bug-out antenna.  Let me count my pennies here... $0.40 per foot x 9' + scrap wire = damn near free, especially considering that I have all the parts on hand.  Well there goes half of my Saturday!

Thanks for posting that link Carl.

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2016, 06:18:28 PM »
It looks like a good deal as the 85 foot W3EDP does tune and transmit on 160 meters ...it should work great.
I plan to run a W3EDP or maybe half sized with a 9 to 1 balun as this should lower SWR to a range that even internal(to the radio) Tuners should handle.

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2016, 10:12:06 AM »
In re-reading this I find I may have become the Ham that I avoided trying to read in the early days of my Ham radio adventure. You know the
guy who's description of a new project tended to leave me more confused than educated. Please ask questions and the knowledgeable radio men
here will make every attempt to explain.

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2017, 06:19:05 AM »
  Just so this cool antenna floats to the top again...I find that a simple 100 foot roll of wire and a 4 to 1 balun will make this ZEPP or W3EDP an easy ,portable antenna that deploys within minutes...those who are mobile can just use an 84 or 85 foot wire with their vehicle serving as the 'short' 17 foot side and make good use of the effective long wire antenna when using an antenna tuner as protection for your radio output.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #83 on: February 26, 2017, 05:40:53 PM »
I spent some time yesterday outside, 20 ft up on a ladder in 38F weather re-routing my antenna wire outside my home.

Previously I had the ladderline + long wire sloping down from my roof line to about 5' about the ground.

I now have the wire running about 30ft up, just under my roof line along the side of my house.  My house wasn't long enough, so the final 8 feet do slope down to about 10 ft above ground, and is tethered to a wooden gate post.

Unfortunately on RX I didn't really improve too much, however it does appear to have a different radiation pattern than before.  The wire is pointing due east, and it does seem like I'm getting better reception into the midwest and east coast than before.

My feedline is LMR-240, and per the online calculator my 100' on 20 meters is should be sending 35 watts when I transmit at 50 watts.  Not too terrible, for digital work. 

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2017, 05:53:22 PM »
  It is a fine line between hobby and mental illness...only a Ham would be out in such weather routeing wire...
Look at all the fun you are having with simple wire antennas.... :)

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #85 on: October 26, 2017, 11:28:13 AM »
To float this gem to the top and add a simple modification...ladder line is NOT NEEDED as I us twin conductor wire called ZIP CORD,LAMP CORD,POWER CORD and even SPEAKER WIRE and prefer 12 or 14 gauge though even speaker wire of 20 gauge or so works and makes for a thin ,lightweight antenna that may break ,but is great for temporary installs.Just cut the 'short side' to length and save it for later.

Offline Lamewolf

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2018, 11:14:29 AM »
I wonder what the swr looks like on this antenna on the various bands without a tuner ?

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2018, 02:00:53 PM »
I wonder what the swr looks like on this antenna on the various bands without a tuner ?

It probablyreally sucks...but as you don't run this antenna without a tuner...It does not matter  The tuner allows the radio to match impedance with the antenna and the radio is happy....any length of conductor will radiate RF that is routed to it...you "TUNE" the antenna to make the radio happy...and yes,you can CUT an antenna to a length and it will work fine...but SWR (within reason) is not why you cut an antenna as people using SWR meters rarely leave well enough alone and continue to trim the antenna for 'perfect' SWR while all they are actually doing in causing LOSS in the system and this loss causes SWR to look better. With a known length needed for that 'perfect' match being a finite measure....why is it that so many Hams won't leave well enough alone???

  The ZEPP of most any of the random length wires exist because the average Ham simply does not have space or time to install a dozen antennas and TECHNOLOGY allows that we don't have to now ...the antenna tuner makes the radio happy and the RF goes out...that's all you need.. I still,at times,discuss the merits of a 1/4 wave dipole VS a random wire of similar size and I continue to have  discussion stall as to which antenna actually produces a better (stronger) signal...there are just too many variables involved with propagation let alone antenna design.

  If you read this far without your eyes glazing over....I currently run a lazy dipole...a ZEPP that is pulled apart...it is a 4 to one balun,coax fed,with 51 feet on one leg and 84 feet on the other at 10 to 25 feet above my yard and folded to being nearly a loop...the ugly piece of scrap wire can work all bands from 160 to 6 meters and has proven itself effective...or proven propagation was good ,more times than I can count...what is the best antenna??? It is the one you are using NOW. I have talked all over the world with antennas from a disturbingly small 4 foot ,base loaded whip to a loop of wire BURIED beneath the soil on a hill and ALL OF THEM were the best at the times I used them.

  We have never had it as good for radio technology than TOMORROW. USE YOUR RADIO...don't be a slave to it.

Offline Carl

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Re: All Band Single Wire Antenna,The Zeppelin
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2018, 02:07:08 PM »
I wonder what the swr looks like on this antenna on the various bands without a tuner ?
  About 10 to 15 to one....but SWR is a readout for radio output like oil pressure can tell you fuel mileage on a car....they simply are not capable of any significance for the item being measured...high SWR when tuned by a tuner is no longer high SWR...just make the radio safe and happy and spend time transmitting rather that running an analyzer to a non useful conclusion.

I wonder what the SWR looks like without a radio???  It does not matter 'cause it ain't gonna' happen.