Author Topic: auto jump pack for portable operations?  (Read 24266 times)

Offline idelphic

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2017, 09:39:30 AM »
<...>
The pvc-wrapped 12AH model on the comms battery page:
https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries-for-communication-equipment-ham-radio
Comes with powerpoles, all ready to go.  It's enough to operate for a day trip, maybe go a full weekend of light use.

I have about 160 18650 cells from old Laptop batteries.... I've just ordered a BMS board and battery holders to build my own pack.  It's a 'duplicate' of the QRP Ranger from Hardened Power... but no were near the cost (or robustness)...  As I figure it,  I only really need 3 cells since the 817 will run on 9.6volts.  ...  So the thought is to have up to 4 sets of 3 cells for operation.

I know that just 3 cells are enough to charge my Yaesu VX-7,.. not that it would go long.... so 4 Sets will do decently.

Offline Greekman

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2017, 11:44:14 AM »
have you seen the work of the SurvivaltechNord, the Ultrapack?
http://www.survivaltechnology.net/qrp-ultrapack-external-battery-pack-project/

also check his video of dissasembly and evaluation of the QRP ranger. you will be suprised by what is under the hood.

and a simpler look alike
https://k7jlj.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/ft-817-batt-pack/

Offline idelphic

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2017, 12:06:15 PM »
have you seen the work of the SurvivaltechNord, the Ultrapack?
http://www.survivaltechnology.net/qrp-ultrapack-external-battery-pack-project/

also check his video of dissasembly and evaluation of the QRP ranger. you will be suprised by what is under the hood.

and a simpler look alike
https://k7jlj.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/ft-817-batt-pack/

Yes, I have been watching that build, and is about how I am building mine.  I don't really see why I want or even need to use all four cells when three work fine...  Julian is a rather nice fellow, and is on the book as someone I would enjoy meeting in person.

I had not seen the QRP Ranger break down..  I'll have to look for it. 

I'll have to look at K7JLJ's build.

Offline idelphic

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2017, 12:48:04 PM »
<...>

also check his video of dissasembly and evaluation of the QRP ranger. you will be suprised by what is under the hood.

<...>
Do you happen to have a direct link?  I can't seem to find it via his channel...

Also, I know that Bill over builds his packs...  As I would want to do if I had the resources ...

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2017, 02:15:27 PM »
  Will it jump start an auto?

Offline idelphic

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2017, 02:40:30 PM »
  Will it jump start an auto?

The QRP Ranger won't,  The K7JLJ pack won't, nor will OH8STN Ultrapack.  The pack I plan to build, based on 18650s won't.  But I already have three Booster boxes.

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2017, 03:34:34 PM »
  Sorry,I guess I got thread-jacked and didn't notice.

Offline idelphic

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2017, 08:03:59 AM »
  Sorry,I guess I got thread-jacked and didn't notice.

My sincerest appologies Carl - IT didn't eve occur to me.  Now that I have once again noticed your topic heading.. you are quite right.  Those devices don't actually fit within the context of the topic.

To be on topic, I have the Vector ElectroMate - not really portable.  I also had two Black&Decker packs, but they long since failed (3 6v batteries)

I have two Booster packs from SAMs: Stanley FatMax 450.  These are decent portable Auto Booster with accessories.  However, the internal 12v 17Ahr battery will take a bit to recharge with the internal 12v 500mAhr charger...  I am tempted to add my own Powerpole or Molex connector so that I may charge with other means.. Such as a solar panel

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2017, 08:09:48 AM »
Have any of you thought to use TENERGY "D" cells in a pack? Low Self Discharge and  8 Amp hour with low internal resistance for reasonable current output? At $70 or less for TEN and easy to recharge...it may do great.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ASF24WI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2017, 08:16:20 AM »
My sincerest appologies Carl - IT didn't eve occur to me.  Now that I have once again noticed your topic heading.. you are quite right.  Those devices don't actually fit within the context of the topic.

To be on topic, I have the Vector ElectroMate - not really portable.  I also had two Black&Decker packs, but they long since failed (3 6v batteries)

I have two Booster packs from SAMs: Stanley FatMax 450.  These are decent portable Auto Booster with accessories.  However, the internal 12v 17Ahr battery will take a bit to recharge with the internal 12v 500mAhr charger...  I am tempted to add my own Powerpole or Molex connector so that I may charge with other means.. Such as a solar panel

I got lost ,so no apology needed. These threads often take a turn off subject and often I am the one doing it. There is always
something to learn from it .

As far as JUMP PACKS, I really have not found one that would actually JUMP an auto...though some could if left connected for long enough to partially charge the weak auto battery...though it never worked when I needed it to. Portable power is just costly and HEAVY.

A 17 amp battery will recharge well with a 2 amp charger and perhaps do even better than the tiny chargers they come with.

Offline K7JLJ

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2017, 05:46:07 PM »
https://www.amazon.com/Antigravity-Batteries-AG-XP-10-Multi-Function-Starter/dp/B00MQ5Z5F2

I use the XP10.  It will start a 7.3 diesel multiple times.

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2017, 05:49:38 PM »
https://www.amazon.com/Antigravity-Batteries-AG-XP-10-Multi-Function-Starter/dp/B00MQ5Z5F2

I use the XP10.  It will start a 7.3 diesel multiple times.

Do you use it to power Ham radios and what kind of performance (radio power and time of use) do you get?

Welcome to TSP forum.

Offline K7JLJ

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2017, 09:34:41 PM »
I've only used it a few times for my ft817, have used it several times on my truck and cars.  It's a 5ah batt at 12v and should perform the same as my DIY 18650 batt linked above, test is on website.

I'd expect 16% less runtime as than the DIY 6.8ah batt

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2017, 01:34:09 AM »
  I hope you don't have to depend on the LOW POWER radio in an emergency as with the current state of propagation it is like whispering
for help in a crowd on a busy,noisy street.About the only way QRP (low power) works effectively is with CW (morse code) or digital modes,even
when the solar cycle is good...but it should be good again in 5 to 7 years.

Offline K7JLJ

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2017, 08:17:58 AM »
For me HF in SHTF is all about NVIS and regional information along with comms to the wife when I have to hike home from work 50miles away.

The 5w 817 is more than capable of doing this on SSB.  I check into nets 600miles away on a regular basis with 5w on 40M.  Power is nice, but how many can sustain 100w with nothing but the solar system they have now?

I can run my 817 indefinitely on a Powerfilm 30w panel and my DIY batt pack.

I am getting an FT891 in March but the 817 is my primary in SHTF until I have a more robust solar setup.

I'm also learning CW but for emcomms that doesn't help if nobody else in your group knows it.

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2017, 09:17:17 AM »
I'm also learning CW but for emcomms that doesn't help if nobody else in your group knows it.
You might check out this old PSK31 thread: http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=47785.0.  I see smartphone PSK31 as a cheat around the CW barrier.  (And I'd like to say "for other people in my group" too, but I'm using it as a crutch to postpone learning CW myself. :) )  That extra 24 dB relative to SSB can make up for a whole bunch of QRP. 

BTW, here's an article from QST that compares different modes:
http://www.qsl.net/k4fk/presentations/Mode-sensitivity-2013-Dec-QST-Siwiak-Pontius-1.pdf

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2017, 10:12:09 AM »
  The reliability of the 2 to 5 watts of the 817 is poor at best unless CW or digital is used as the extensive military testing determined
that 20 watts or more was needed for NVIS to be reliable and as you say you intend it to be for emergency use and you NEED DEPENDABLE ,
then maybe it will work for you when you need it and maybe it won't. Most QRP users are successful because of CW or DIGITAL as the SSB
and human voice are poor communications tools ,at best.

I run a 24 x 7 VHF with laptop for ECHOLINK and a two hour a day 50 to 100 watt HF radio off of a 120 watt solar panel and TWO 125 Amp Hour batteries. The solar charges at 5 Amps for five hours most days and tapers up and down 2 or so hours each morn and evening. Only after a cloudy
week do I need to augment the solar...You need a good battery of ,I suggest,at least 100 Amp hours to have day or night capability as a typical auto
battery will not perform well for long with a 100 watt,or even 50 watt as I usually run,radio as the radios get unstable when the voltage goes below 12 volts under load and this does not take long.

  QRP is a wonderful hobby but not so good when you have to be heard. Look about the HAM RADIO area for more as this has been discussed before.

Offline K7JLJ

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2017, 12:52:04 PM »
I think it all comes down to what you are trying to accomplish.  I agree that having a 100w setup is optimal and is why my second rig is going to be the FT891. 

Would I ever carry it in the field?  No.   Vehicle? Yes    Base Unit? Yes, main reason for it.

For me, portability was first, power second.  I know many will tell me that 5W is not enough, but in the past year of using it, I have not failed to accomplish my mission stated above even in a low sun cycle.

I'm curious what scenario you see yourself not being heard with 5W?  Have you used QRP quite a bit with too many failures for your taste?  Who were you trying to contact that you couldn't?

1-2S increase with 100W vs. 5W.  I've yet to see this make a difference. 

Granted, you will sound better and be off the noise floor with 100W, but if prop is not there for 5W, it's likely not there for 100W either in my limited experience.

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2017, 01:25:39 PM »
  I have owned two 817 and several vintage and home brew QRP radios, I like QRP . But I don't hunt bear with a .22 and too often the QRP
can not be heard over the noise. Will it work...sometimes,but emergencies don't happen on a sometimes schedule and radio such as the Yaesu 857
are almost as small as the 817 and can run 5 watts out ,though with a little more power requirements, and turn up when needed and at little more
cost than the 817. You have it and so use it,but reliability can be an issue,though the realistic chances of needing it are small as I consider VHF/UHF
far more useful for the call for help in emergency.

  If it works for you,GREAT. I just don't rely on maybe after 25 years of owning and using QRP and full power radios.

I have been there:Here are a couple thing to listen to when time allows...many people still walk the earth due to my and many other Ham's efforts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfn5KNcoUVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLtfOR-CEzw


Offline K7JLJ

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2017, 02:35:34 PM »
Thanks, I will listen to them.  Can you message me your call so I can listen for it in the audio?

Nobody is going to argue against more power OR BETTER YET a more efficient antenna system, but my point is... QRP does not equal "No signal".

How many times have you tried 5W and them boosted to 20W then 100W and ONLY got through on 100W?

I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm trying to get you old salts to convince me. :)  It's all theory until it's tested right?

You didn't answer my original question...  How many times did you fail with QRP when you needed it? 

My second question is... how many times did you go to 100W and get through?

I think most people don't test this.  I think most people tend to go with the big power is better and never do side by sides because they have already concluded that their QRP is not enough. 

It will be interesting to operate 5W on the FT891 and see how often I need more.

Offline Carl

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2017, 02:45:42 PM »
I am KB5WMY.

I have gone off subject here but I only use QRP for fun as it often is frustrating to not be heard.
Rarely is full power needed ,though it is good to have . and my jump pack is 125 amp hour communications cell.
there ,back on subject.

Offline K7JLJ

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2017, 03:52:36 PM »
Copy getting back on topic. 

If you have any HF tapes of Katrina I'd love to hear them, I'm guessing this was on a repeater net you guys setup?  Or any resources that show how HF was used in in that crisis.

Offline K7JLJ

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Re: auto jump pack for portable operations?
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2017, 02:58:17 PM »
You might check out this old PSK31 thread: http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=47785.0.  I see smartphone PSK31 as a cheat around the CW barrier.  (And I'd like to say "for other people in my group" too, but I'm using it as a crutch to postpone learning CW myself. :) )  That extra 24 dB relative to SSB can make up for a whole bunch of QRP. 

BTW, here's an article from QST that compares different modes:
http://www.qsl.net/k4fk/presentations/Mode-sensitivity-2013-Dec-QST-Siwiak-Pontius-1.pdf

I missed this the first time around, thanks for the link!