Author Topic: Am I understanding this right?  (Read 9311 times)

Offline Freedom Forged

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Am I understanding this right?
« on: May 29, 2017, 10:59:16 AM »
For my Zepp antenna if I choose one of the lengths in "green" from this info http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html that will best fit for the room I have available I should be good?  I think I've read so much I'm on information overload. :o

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2017, 11:47:20 AM »
For my Zepp antenna if I choose one of the lengths in "green" from this info http://www.hamuniverse.com/randomwireantennalengths.html that will best fit for the room I have available I should be good?  I think I've read so much I'm on information overload. :o

These:REVISED: 29  35.5  41  58  71  84  107  119  148  203  347  407  423
are random lengths that are not resonant on Ham radio bands and are safe ,I also add multiples of 17 feet works well ,for many also..as 17,34,51,68,85 are good ,but close . For transmitting on HF bands with a good antenna tuner in line. I currently us the 17 and 51 foot ZIPP-ZEPP in another thread successfully on all HF through 6 meter bands ...even 160 meters. An all band antenna is not best on any one band ,but works acceptably on many or all bands. The 'best' zepp is one that is longer than 1/4 wavelength on your lowest frequency that you expect to use.

 http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=59870.0

A random wire needs 'balance' and this is why it should be called random wires, the zep uses a long (take your pick of length) against a shorter 17,25,51 foot length of wire and they can be together or apart as a random pair of wires in a dipole configuration.A random wire run against an earth ground can also work,but remember ...half of your power goes to each side and earth does not radiate too well.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 11:52:46 AM by Carl »

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 12:38:29 PM »
These:REVISED: 29  35.5  41  58  71  84  107  119  148  203  347  407  423
are random lengths that are not resonant on Ham radio bands and are safe ,I also add multiples of 17 feet works well ,for many also..as 17,34,51,68,85 are good ,but close . For transmitting on HF bands with a good antenna tuner in line. I currently us the 17 and 51 foot ZIPP-ZEPP in another thread successfully on all HF through 6 meter bands ...even 160 meters. An all band antenna is not best on any one band ,but works acceptably on many or all bands. The 'best' zepp is one that is longer than 1/4 wavelength on your lowest frequency that you expect to use.

 http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=59870.0

A random wire needs 'balance' and this is why it should be called random wires, the zep uses a long (take your pick of length) against a shorter 17,25,51 foot length of wire and they can be together or apart as a random pair of wires in a dipole configuration.A random wire run against an earth ground can also work,but remember ...half of your power goes to each side and earth does not radiate too well.

Thanks Carl.  I'm double checking things on my Zep.  I really don't think it's performing as it should but I don't know for sure......

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 01:12:50 PM »
Thanks Carl.  I'm double checking things on my Zep.  I really don't think it's performing as it should but I don't know for sure......

Describe how it is placed,your antenna tuner,what does not seem to be doing right.
Have you used a 4 to 1 balun with polarity marked?
Have you tried changing the side of the balun that the long and short wires connect to?
What wire lengths are you using?

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 01:35:12 PM »
Describe how it is placed,your antenna tuner,what does not seem to be doing right.

This might be easier done with a video.  I'm using a DSG tuner.  I just don't seem to be getting the performance that I thought I would.

Have you used a 4 to 1 balun with polarity marked?

Yes, I used a 4:1 balun with marked polarity and if memory serves me I have the short side connected to - and the long side to +.  I'll have to double check that.

Have you tried changing the side of the balun that the long and short wires connect to?

I have not tried this.

What wire lengths are you using?

148 feet.  That is inclusive of the 17ft ladder line.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 01:49:49 PM by Freedom Forged »

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2017, 02:30:18 PM »
   It sounds like you are doing the antenna/tuner to even more length and capability than I have room to try. We are in a tough time for HF as propagation is poor,at best,and dismal in many opinions. How does the zep compare to other antennas? I do not think you are doing anything wrong with the antenna as described as how it is placed is not too critical as mine is currently on conduit 10 foot joints I had handy and only about 4 feet above and along a metal fence.

Is your coax connection sealed from moisture and in good condition?

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2017, 02:35:32 PM »
   It sounds like you are doing the antenna/tuner to even more length and capability than I have room to try. We are in a tough time for HF as propagation is poor,at best,and dismal in many opinions. How does the zep compare to other antennas? I do not think you are doing anything wrong with the antenna as described as how it is placed is not too critical as mine is currently on conduit 10 foot joints I had handy and only about 4 feet above and along a metal fence.

Is your coax connection sealed from moisture and in good condition?

I'm going to double check the length, I am going from memory right now.  It may be shorter than 148

I have no other HF antennas to measure it against.

The coax connections and balun are located in a sealed plastic electrical box.




« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 02:51:42 PM by Freedom Forged »

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2017, 03:28:28 PM »
Orientation and construction all looks good.
Thermal differences from day to night and day to day can cause water to enter the coax and your coax does not look like it is sealed with tape or self vulcanizing silicon tape to prevent water incursion...I do not think it is your problem YET with such good looking coax,it looks 'fresh'. But should be sealed. You may just be experiencing poor propagation on which bands you are testing on. Are you comparing to others or just expect it to be better?
Sorry to ask dumb questions,but I am mostly working blind here.

Your ladder line should,and appears to be all off the ground and as it appears will do good work as a vertical on 6 to 20 meters and perform well as a horizontal antenna on most other bands. I like the looks of it. CanadianPrepper may also offer input as he has experimented a lot with modifications to the ZEP antenna.

  This map may help you see when and which band is performing to and from your area.

http://www.dxmaps.com/spots/mapg.php?Lan=E&Frec=144&ML=M&Map=NA&HF=N&DXC=ING2&GL=N

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2017, 03:44:59 PM »
They are not dumb questions at all.  I may be expecting too much.  I don't have an antenna analyzer and I don't trust my power/swr meter so I have no reassurance all is good.

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2017, 03:57:22 PM »
They are not dumb questions at all.  I may be expecting too much.  I don't have an antenna analyzer and I don't trust my power/swr meter so I have no reassurance all is good.

If it is a CB meter,it will only work on 10 meters..If a HF meter ,and working,the SWR should tune to an acceptable level. Keep your radio at low power till you verify the SWR meter works,Place the SWR meter at the radio before the tuner and antenna. it should be RADIO>SWR METER>TUNER>OUT TO ANTENNA.

  If in doubt,borrow a fellow Ham's SWR METER.The antenna will read 10 to 1 or higher SWR without the tuner doing it's job correctly.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2017, 06:51:50 PM »
It's a Diamond SX-200 and I don't like it.  I double checked and I do have it cabled in correctly.  I'm sure an inline SWR/Watt meter is nice but I'm tempted to replace it with a more useful antenna analyzer.  The tuner tunes on every band but if I have an issue that I don't know about it could be compensating by reducing output wattage correct?

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 05:44:05 AM »
  The SX-200 is a great meter,as long as one adjusts the calibrate knob with a carrier as with AM,FM or a continuous CW tone...any means of producing a constant RF output. As your antenna loading varies your output power does vary as does tthe indication of power and SWR on the meter...don't worry YET about exact reading,just adjust the antenna tuner for minimum SWR deflection and then calibrate again and re-tune to minimum.

  You can tune buy ear and save the transmitter some work by adjusting the tuner while listening for background noise to go up when adjusting the inductance first (usually the middle knob) then that capacitance nearest the radio input to the tuner, and last adjust the capacitance nearest the antenna in the flow through the tuner...Hard to describe ,yet easy to learn and do. Once you get to loudest noise ,THEN apply power and calibrate the SWR METER and make fine adjustments to the tuner.

  Unless damaged,TRUST your meter. Your radio DOES NOT AND WILL NOT always produce 100 watts. I t will output what it outputs ace exactly 100 watts ,especially on higher frequencies like 10 ,12,and 15 meters. HF radios often only produce 25 to 4 0 watts AM as they were rated by INPUT POWER in the early days. Work with tuner and SWR meter adjustment and it becomes nearly automatic with time.

  I am not saying "I told you so" , but this is why I like the LDG AT100 Pro and AT 200 Pro auto tuners as they TUNE your system ,have SWR and POWER meters built in and even an antenna selector for TWO antennas and costs less than separate tuner,SWR meter,antenna switch...
But you use what you have and what you have is great,unless you lack dexterity with your hands as I do.

  I describe the ear tune method as a long forgotten skill as it becomes so 'automatic' ,like riding a bike, that those that do it forget to pass it along. Practice a bit and it will improve your confidence with your Ham gear. I would have just PMed this ,but others may benefit.
  Practice your skill. Enjoy your hobby.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 06:54:29 AM »
Thanks Carl, after thinking about it more I'm going to add a second antenna for a couple of reasons.  I have everything in place to install this one with ease.  https://www.gigaparts.com/endfed-1-2-wave-300w-40m-10m-wire-antenna.html?gclid=CNvc7YCVmtQCFdgIgQodthEE8g

I would have something to compare the Zepp to, have a backup antenna, due to my installation configuration I could easily drop it lower for NVIS and I could uninstall it with ease if I needed to relocate for emergencies.  Thoughts?

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2017, 07:12:57 AM »
Thanks Carl, after thinking about it more I'm going to add a second antenna for a couple of reasons.  I have everything in place to install this one with ease.  https://www.gigaparts.com/endfed-1-2-wave-300w-40m-10m-wire-antenna.html?gclid=CNvc7YCVmtQCFdgIgQodthEE8g

I would have something to compare the Zepp to, have a backup antenna, due to my installation configuration I could easily drop it lower for NVIS and I could uninstall it with ease if I needed to relocate for emergencies.  Thoughts?

The end fed half wave can do good. I used one on my way to the W3EDP or ZEP antenna. You will probably need a 17 or 25 foot wire as a counterpoise to help eliminate rf in the Ham Shack or other parts of the home as it is not far separated from the Zep in design. Good Luck and post results for others to learn from.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 08:35:19 AM »
This always gets me with manufacturers. " No Counterpoise Needed"!!!!

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2017, 08:37:12 AM »
They are not dumb questions at all.  I may be expecting too much.  I don't have an antenna analyzer and I don't trust my power/swr meter so I have no reassurance all is good.

An analyzer is nothing magical.  It's almost a novelty item. In my experience they are mainly helpful for resonant antennas. It can save time to know "how far" off your intended resonant frequency is, but this can be deducted from an SWR meter.  e.g. if the lowest SWR happens when you shorten your wire, that's a higher frequency than you are tuning to.

@Carl - if we hooked up an analyzer to a Zepp or other "random" wire style antenna, what would we find out?

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2017, 08:56:39 AM »
@Carl - if we hooked up an analyzer to a Zepp or other "random" wire style antenna, what would we find out?

While lying in bed and not being able to sleep last night I thought about this very thing.  I am probably wrong, you guys know more than I do but the more I thought about it the more I thought that it would only show what frequency would be resonate for the particular length of wire I have.  It's the tuner that makes the wire resonate for the particular frequency tuned correct????????
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 09:20:44 AM by Freedom Forged »

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2017, 09:14:00 AM »
  You would find the resonant frequency of the non resonant antenna...basically the point at which it has 50 Ohm impedance.
Often the analyzer will not have enough power to pass through a tuner (there is some loss involved) so not good for adjusting a manual tuner either.
It can help when a coil (as part of an antenna) is adjusted to tune the tunable antenna...but your hearing and listening for noise level to peak will get you there ...faster and often more accurately.

My preference is for CROSS NEEDLE SWR meters that read power BOTH ways and act as an idiot light for SWR.
I have ,and use manual antenna tuners but much prefer the LDG AT100 Pro and AT200 Pro auto tuners as you get an EASY button tuner,SWR and POWER OUT meters,and antenna switch ALL in one and for less money than buying separate devices.

I mention the 200 watt tuner as I think the larger components (inductors and capacitors) will have less loss and saturation and heating.

Whether automatic or manual,Tune at LOW POWER and the LDG with a matching cable to the radio will drop to 10 watts and CW when tuning and this saves damage to latching relays that do the tuning and also saves wear and tear on transmitter to tune at low power ,even with a manual tuner.

Just my thoughts on random stuff. I paid dearly learning what worked and fit in the budget and hope to help save someone along the way so they might not spend for product when SKILL is what they desire.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2017, 09:21:59 AM »
This may be a better choice than the end fed......

https://www.gigaparts.com/radiowavz-dx80sh.html

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2017, 09:34:34 AM »
While lying in bed and not being able to sleep last night I thought about this very thing.  I am probably wrong, you guys know more than I do but the more I thought about it the more I thought that it would only show what frequency would be resonate for the particular length of wire I have.  It's the tuner that makes the wire resonate????????

You are correct,as I mentioned above,  it is the TUNER that makes the wire APPEAR to be 50 OHMS , a non-resonant wire will always be non-resonant (except on the one frequency,and multiples of,that it is cut for) and we TUNE the antenna tuner to make the very pickey output of the radio happy...as 'tune' and SWR have little or nothing to do with antenna capability , only radio acceptance.

  An antenna should be at least 1/4 wavelength long on it's lowest intended frequency to be effective,though orientation (vertical ,horizontal,V or inverted) can effect radiation angle and a bit of direction..SIZE of at least a 1/4 wavelength is important . Shorter antennas will work,though less effective and this is why coil loaded 18 foot antennas that work on 40-60-80 meters and others are a JOKE,unless size is a problem,they have LOSS,NOT GAIN and those that work without radials or just a wire to ground are worse as half of your power is warming the dirt or has nowhere to go.
  Even the Zep I often brag on has loss for the convenience of deployment,we make compromise with most any antenna for some reason. You must decide which advantage and which compromise best suits your needs .

Sorry,stepping off the soap box.

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2017, 09:51:16 AM »
This may be a better choice than the end fed......

https://www.gigaparts.com/radiowavz-dx80sh.html

This is not bad . The load coil in the one leg of antenna can suffer in sun and weather and you can build a similar antenna with a $35 or less,4 to 1 balun and some wire and have less antenna than you are trying to replace. How about save some cash and build a 40 meter inverted ""V" that will be good to compare to you ZEP on 40 and 15 meters (as 15 is a multiple of 40) and ,with your tuner should work on 17 and 12 meters also and maybe 20.

All you need is two lengths of ,say 14 gauge wire, cut long enough to tie to feed point and end insulators and have 35 feet for each antenna 'leg' .
I use PVC cut and drilled for insulators and ,if you use a 4 to 1 balun as your feed point,it will tune fine to several other bands. You don't even need fancy feed points or insulators for a 'test' antenna ,but such parts will be used over and over as you experiment with wire antennas.
  Even a GROUND PLANE ANTENNA can be made from a dipole ...by adding two extra wire,cut to length,on the shield connected side of your coax.

  So many antennas,so little time..This is why some Ham's know that Ham is a NOUN and a VERB.

As usual , I probably said more than you wanted to hear.

Offline Canadian Prepper

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2017, 05:30:58 PM »
My W3EDP is about 114 feet long with an additional two 17-18 foot wires that are held just a bit above ground.

I spent lots of time analyzing those charts but at the end of the day, I think that going almost as long as I had space for gave me the best gain on 80m, which is too popular around here to give up despite my crowded, noisy urban environment. Aside from some parts of the 10m band, I have found that I could tune it nicely on a variety of automatic and manual tuners. The only exception might be when it rains heavy, as the antenna passes through a number of trees and the SWR will go off the charts if it`s really wet.

I really like the set up for 80 and 40m, and appreciate the value of the virtually NVIS effect that I get with it only about 20ft off the ground, though I have reached Texas on 80m, and regularly check into a net control station in Georgia on 40 and 80m. It also seems to work reasonably well on 20 and 17m. I regularly check into the nets on 14.300Mhz that usually have net controllers from the US South or offshore islands and it works fine for that at the right time of day.

I might in the near future set up some antennas that are closer to the traditional dipole design for the higher bands if I can get them half a wavelength up in the air, but I don`t feel unduly handicapped by my current setup and think it`s superior to most of the alternatives available for what I want to do (regionally connect via 80-40m and play a bit of DX on the weekends on higher bands). If someone`s worried about SWR, I would suggest to get a simple, cheap used manual tuner designed to handle amplifier power levels. I paid $60 for my MFJ 962C, and even if I were to doubt its ratings, it will easily protect the radio transmitting at 100W.

BTW, I do have an antenna analyzer, since I have a couple other portable and base station options that I sometimes set up, but to be fair could have had just as much effectiveness with my end fed if I didn`t have it and simply followed Carl`s advice, which served me very well with my current setup.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 05:54:43 PM »
My W3EDP is about 114 feet long with an additional two 17-18 foot wires that are held just a bit above ground.

I spent lots of time analyzing those charts but at the end of the day, I think that going almost as long as I had space for gave me the best gain on 80m, which is too popular around here to give up despite my crowded, noisy urban environment. Aside from some parts of the 10m band, I have found that I could tune it nicely on a variety of automatic and manual tuners. The only exception might be when it rains heavy, as the antenna passes through a number of trees and the SWR will go off the charts if it`s really wet.

I really like the set up for 80 and 40m, and appreciate the value of the virtually NVIS effect that I get with it only about 20ft off the ground, though I have reached Texas on 80m, and regularly check into a net control station in Georgia on 40 and 80m. It also seems to work reasonably well on 20 and 17m. I regularly check into the nets on 14.300Mhz that usually have net controllers from the US South or offshore islands and it works fine for that at the right time of day.

I might in the near future set up some antennas that are closer to the traditional dipole design for the higher bands if I can get them half a wavelength up in the air, but I don`t feel unduly handicapped by my current setup and think it`s superior to most of the alternatives available for what I want to do (regionally connect via 80-40m and play a bit of DX on the weekends on higher bands). If someone`s worried about SWR, I would suggest to get a simple, cheap used manual tuner designed to handle amplifier power levels. I paid $60 for my MFJ 962C, and even if I were to doubt its ratings, it will easily protect the radio transmitting at 100W.

BTW, I do have an antenna analyzer, since I have a couple other portable and base station options that I sometimes set up, but to be fair could have had just as much effectiveness with my end fed if I didn`t have it and simply followed Carl`s advice, which served me very well with my current setup.


I can't seem to find the net on either of these two bands



I have narrowed it down to three.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/alf-dx-cc

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/alf-dx-lbplus

This one would make a cleaner installation I believe.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/bmt-dx-ocf

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 06:36:34 PM »
  What net,what band and about how far away is it from you as HF can be great for long rang but often,unless you set up and operate NVIS (no vertical antenna will do), your chance of success is slim...no matter how much money you throw at it. This is why the 14.300 maritime mobile net swaps control operators as the closes station I can work is often just over 750 miles and just beyond 630 miles on rare occasions. You are fighting nature and conditions are  not good now, and for months/years to come.To quote an old song.."You can't always get what you want"

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2017, 06:42:14 PM »
I'm not exactly sure where the net control station is but I can estimate 300-400 miles from my QTH.  To be clear I'm not trying to rig up just for this net it was just a side note to what CP posted.

I like what I've read about this one as well.  http://www.hypowerantenna.com/products/off-center-fed-antenna

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2017, 06:46:33 PM »
I'm not exactly sure where the net control station is but I can estimate 300-400 miles from my QTH.

NVIS on 40-60-or 80 meters can do that close but they are the only bands that may work and due to lower angle radiation ...any vertical antenna would be out of the question. But don't let me stop you, buy some antennas and amplifiers and see for yourself.

Offline Freedom Forged

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2017, 06:59:13 PM »
So the ones that I have list would be considered verticals?  I intended to hang them in a very wide horizontal V, if that make sense.

Offline Canadian Prepper

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2017, 07:14:23 PM »
Perhaps I should expand a little bit more to give a better idea of my antenna`s performance.

There is a local daily net here called ONTARS (Ontario Amateur Radio Service) that operated from about 7am to 6pm 7 days a week, though there`s quite a few vacancies for net controllers during the middle of the day, especially in the summer. That said, with the gain of my end fed, I can listen and participate almost all the time on a net that covers about a three or four hundred mile radius. Later in the evening I can easily join one of the regional 80m nets, such as the Great Lakes Emergency and Traffic Net, which covers the entire Great Lakes Basin. On the weekends I will regularly join in on a couple of the survivalist, patriot nets from the US, and find it easy enough to listen to and usually check into The American Preparedness Radio Net (TAPRN), the main net controller transmitting from Georgia on Sunday evenings.

Speaking of 40m, we have daily morning nets around 9-10am around here that covers a slightly broader area than the 80m daytime nets, and  there`s also a couple of Eastern and Midwestern 40m daytime nets in the 7.50-7.60Mhz range. I have no difficulty checking into evening nets such as the Nightwatch and Brothers Net, which operates most evenings from 7.192Mhz and covers most of the Eastern US and Canada. Back to Carl's comments about various antennas, the advantage of just adding extra lengths of wire for the lower bands provides far more gain than the more expensive compromise antennas. Like Carl keeps pointing out (and my QTH confirms) you can zig-zag wires across a yard to make it fit, so length of antenna is less of a handicap than it sounds.

Moving up to 20m, there are several nets operating most of the time on 14.300Mhz, and the mix of different net controllers across the US and parts of Canada allows for the chance to familiarize oneself with benefits and challenges of working 20m. I will usually follow and try checking into the Sunday Trans Canada net on 14.140Mhz (outside of the US ham band) and usually can speak with the Western Net Controller on Vancouver Island and the Central Net Control within about an hour's drive of Winnipeg. The Eastern Canadian Net Controller is usually within my skip zone, but the net rotates between the three to maximize access from across the country. On good days 20 also provides its share of DX, even with my relatively low wire.

17 Meters often has clear stations on its relatively short segment of band, and I've had enough check ins and even lengthy discussions on that band to recommend checking it out. I use 15m a lot less, but my success could in part be due to the fact that I check it less often. On 10m I sometimes check into a local net, and occasionally DX or speak across North America when that band is alive. It's not the main band for my type of antenna, but can be very fun during the right conditions.

Aside from the worst of solar conditions, I can consistently communicate with 40 and 80m over known, significant distances, which increases at night, and get enough continental or DX comms with 20, 17, 15 and 10 to make it worthwhile. The higher bands are much more sensitive to time of day (usually requires daylight over both stations) and may have extensive skip zones, but they can easily provide a wintertime morning's worth of fun.

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2017, 07:20:07 PM »
So the ones that I have list would be considered verticals?  I intended to hang them in a very wide horizontal V, if that make sense.

No,they should do OK in dipole or inverted "V" configuration at 15 to 25 feet above the ground
( I know they suggest 35,but 15 would be better for your intended use) and the best option is the third
choice as length always work better than coils because we need size to send and capture a signal and the stubby ,coil loaded first and second will just disappoint you. You need a 1/4 wavelength on the lowest frequency you intend to operate on and a balanced antenna (over 1/4 wave on each leg) will have some advantage over the ZEP,but you might not notice the difference as it will amount to 1/3 of an "S" unit (discounting orientation) at best.

Go for it.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 07:29:41 PM by Carl »

Offline Carl

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Re: Am I understanding this right?
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2017, 07:29:06 PM »
CANPREP...the big problem is that he desires to work a net with control station only about 400 miles out and I am not yet sure of the band he wants to use. So I suggested the longest dipole/Inv "V" of his choices as his best option to test against his well constructed ZEPP. You did good work with you data and experience with your ZEPP as HF is about as bad as it has ever been in my 25 years of operating. Oh Yea...KARMA dude.