Author Topic: unsecure site  (Read 922 times)

Offline Carver

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unsecure site
« on: January 08, 2020, 07:04:43 AM »
How come Firefox warns me that this is an unsecure site? What does that mean? Should I be concerned?

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 11:02:49 AM »
It's because we use HTTP (unencrypted) instead of HTTPS (encrypted) for communication between your browser and the site.

We did set up HTTPS here, but it broke lots of things.  Basically we have to restart from scratch -- reinstall the forum software, probably move it to its own subdomain, and import all the data from the old forum.  That's a giant job and nobody has gotten started on it yet.

What it means in practice is that a man-in-the-middle could, theoretically, intercept your login info, watch as you write posts and personal messages, and generally be a snoop.

The value of HTTPS in preventing that depends on whether you think HTTPS has already been cracked.  Anyway, if Bad Guys really want access to our forum secrets, they would probably just try to hack our server (or if they are government Bad Guys, subpoena a copy of all our files) rather than calling in the NSA.

Offline Carver

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 09:39:03 PM »
Quote
Basically we have to restart from scratch
Maybe it's time to do that. This site is like one of hundreds of vacant shopping malls across the country. Just look at all the deserted topics, some haven't been active in years. And many of the posts are dead to responses as a vast number of those who posted are no longer active. Archive this and start from scratch with a leaner and cleaner forum for the 2020's.

This forum needs to dust off its' rest home atmosphere and adapt to a different survival preparedness environment that is different from the one that spawned it.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2020, 10:12:23 PM »
Well, I didn't mean restart everything from scratch.  Just the software.

I wouldn't want to lose our old posts.  A forum isn't supposed to be like a Facebook group, where any discussion older than 3 days is effectively dead and nearly impossible to find.  We're also a database of information.  A forum is sorta halfway between a Facebook group and a wiki.

The deserted topics do get attention -- I mean, for example, I just posted yesterday how our September 2017 discussion of ATO and ATC blade fuses is the most popular thread on the whole site, according to Google.  We have topics that have been getting regular posts for many years, and we have new members who go browsing through the forum and resurrect old topics.

The prepping environment has changed over the past decade, but recipes and canning instructions aren't out of date, gardening tips are still just as valid as when they were posted, discussions about what is the best firearm or the best knife are eternal.

The thing is, we don't gain anything by deleting all that.  It's there.  Members can use it or ignore it, as they prefer.

Offline Redman

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2020, 03:20:01 AM »
Well, I didn't mean restart everything from scratch.  Just the software.

I wouldn't want to lose our old posts.  A forum isn't supposed to be like a Facebook group, where any discussion older than 3 days is effectively dead and nearly impossible to find.  We're also a database of information.  A forum is sorta halfway between a Facebook group and a wiki.

The deserted topics do get attention -- I mean, for example, I just posted yesterday how our September 2017 discussion of ATO and ATC blade fuses is the most popular thread on the whole site, according to Google.  We have topics that have been getting regular posts for many years, and we have new members who go browsing through the forum and resurrect old topics.

The prepping environment has changed over the past decade, but recipes and canning instructions aren't out of date, gardening tips are still just as valid as when they were posted, discussions about what is the best firearm or the best knife are eternal.

The thing is, we don't gain anything by deleting all that.  It's there.  Members can use it or ignore it, as they prefer.

 :clap: :clap:

Offline Carver

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2020, 07:03:39 AM »
Quote
I wouldn't want to lose our old posts.  A forum isn't supposed to be like a Facebook group, where any discussion older than 3 days is effectively dead and nearly impossible to find.  We're also a database of information.  A forum is sorta halfway between a Facebook group and a wiki./quote]

I agree, not what I meant by archiving it. I do plow through numerous topics without commenting on them. But nonetheless, eventually an upgrade that includes all that and security is inevitable.

Offline Carver

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2020, 07:01:29 PM »
So elsewhere it is mentioned that Jack Spirko hasn't logged in since 8 months ago and there is a whole bunch of previously very active participants that are not active, and moderators that are "on leave" in months or years. Why is that? Is it due to the unsecured status? Was it due to lack of compensation? An ideology dispute? I was fairly active some years ago and left due to a lot of childish bickering, and elsewhere in other forums I heard over and over the same lament about this forum. But since it has quieted down and as I was looking for some information I signed up again and the conversation is noticeably more mature, but definitely lacking vitality and most noticeably participation. So, yeah, I am somewhat curious about TSP forum health.

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2020, 07:16:03 PM »
Jack has never been active on the forum.  He only started the forum because the early listeners kept asking for it.

As for membership, it's just like every other forum.  People come and go.  They lose interest in the subject and find other things that they are interested in talking about more. 

Moderators get burned out, it's a thankless job and we often get yelled at for our actions.  Thankfully, we have always had a good group of moderators that support each other.  However life does sometimes get in the way and cause mods to leave for periods of time.

I have no idea what you mean by are mods on leave because of the site being unsecure.  Why would that have anything to do with mods wanting to take some time off?

Offline Bradbn4

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2020, 07:20:41 PM »
From what I remember, Jack was never that active on this side of the fence.  He perfected a more real time, vocal connection using his podcasts.  The fact that this site is not secure has nothing to do with that.  SSL, to TLS just prevents people from eyeballing what you are typing in real time.  This site is not behind a closed paywall so pretty much anyone can read what other people have to say.

For a bit I believe that Jack was very active on MEWE social website that took over some of the load from the google site when it went down.   Last time I was on MEWE, I don't believe that Jack had posted much of anything on in about 6+ months.

The moderators are members of the forum that have stepped up and can provide support for the membership.  Often this support has a tendency to burn people out after a bit.   Heck, prepping topic in general will tend to do that...

I have meet one or two Mods in real life, nice folks....they have figured what they wanted out of their life that intersected with this forum and just moved on.

Once you have your beans, bullets, and bandages all setup, what else is there?  Well, in truth, there is a whole lot more...making our lives better through good times and bad. 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 07:32:35 PM by Bradbn4 »

Offline Carver

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2020, 09:36:12 PM »
Quote
I have no idea what you mean by are mods on leave because of the site being unsecure.  Why would that have anything to do with mods wanting to take some time off?
I don't know.

Just throwing out thoughts, why? As you know there have numerous survival/preparedness forums and podcasts that have come and gone. Jack Spirko's podcast is one of the few survivors, and this forum one of the few forum survivors. So I wonder why. Why so many that were so deeply involved and bugged-out is relevant in that it might be a clue as to if something needs fixing. As far as I can tell this forum stands out especially since a lot of the earlier bickering and similar nonsense isn't happening. Bottom line, my inquiry is in the interest of preserving a valuable source, this forum, you have to ask questions like this.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2020, 01:57:31 PM »
This is obviously something the mods/admins have discussed a LOT.

Why did moderators leave?  Many reasons.  Some just got bored.  Some developed serious medical problems, or their family members did, or they had other very personal reasons that I can't discuss.  Some got burned out from moderating bad-tempered discussions.  Some needed to devote more time to their business.  But I can safely say zero left because of the "insecure site" issue.

Why did regular members leave?  Again, many reasons, but several stand out:
  • Competition from other social media, especially Facebook.
  • People are transitioning from desktop/laptop computers to cellphones as their main Internet connection.  All forums are hard to use on a tiny screen, and our forum software is especially bad that way.
  • Some people thought we were too strict with moderating.
  • Some people thought we were not strict enough with moderating.
  • Lots of ill-tempered posts made the forum a less-enjoyable experience.
  • Snowball effect: as your favorite people start to leave the forum, you're less likely to login every day (espeically if you're in contact with them anyway via Facebook, phone, etc).

Here's the thing.  Jack has started a whole lot of social connections for the TSP community.  There's the blog, there have been several different forums, the TSP Wiki, the Facebook and MeWe groups, chat boards, the Zello channel for voice chat, and probably some others I've forgotten.  Some have thrived, some have faded, some have vanished entirely.

What's left is a few social connections that fill different niches:
  • If you want to interact directly with Jack and his podcast listeners, there's fresh discussion in the comments on TSP Blog.
  • If you want active conversations on topics that last a few days, and real-time chat, go to The Survival Podcast Hang Out on MeWe.
  • If you want discussions that include longer, more detailed posts, and a searchable archive of information contributed over more than a decade, this forum is the place to be.

I'd like to see some forum upgrades to improve ease-of-use, but I don't think it's good to try to "update" the forum into something that it has never been.  It serves a particular purpose that is not served by other social media.  Whether people continue to find that purpose valuable, I can't control or predict.

Offline Carver

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2020, 08:52:21 PM »
Thanks for a very considerate and well thought out response. I can relate to much of those conditions you cite. I run a small 3,000 member Facebook group and have gained a lot of respect for moderators; and always keenly interested in how to maintain a successful forum. I've heard moderating a forum being trying to herd cats.

Offline Hurricane

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2020, 05:07:50 PM »
I am using an  https  link, but WaterFox warns me that the connection is not entirely secure.
Don't care that much.

Offline surfivor

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2020, 06:01:12 PM »
So elsewhere it is mentioned that Jack Spirko hasn't logged in since 8 months ago and there is a whole bunch of previously very active participants that are not active, and moderators that are "on leave" in months or years. Why is that? Is it due to the unsecured status? Was it due to lack of compensation? An ideology dispute? I was fairly active some years ago and left due to a lot of childish bickering, and elsewhere in other forums I heard over and over the same lament about this forum. But since it has quieted down and as I was looking for some information I signed up again and the conversation is noticeably more mature, but definitely lacking vitality and most noticeably participation. So, yeah, I am somewhat curious about TSP forum health.

 There was a tremendous amount of disagreements between the end of Obama and the beginning of Trump. That had something to do with it ..

Back in 2008 when TSP started, Spirko was actually on here quite a bit. I joined around September or October of that year when the crash occurred and TSP only started in like June or something. Lots of people have left and there was a few interesting people and lively and interesting discussions going way back.

 The site shows almost 19,000 members. Many are obviously not active. Back in 2008 I think there was less than 1,000. There might have been 600 or 800 is my guess if I recall

 Some of the others may have left because they refused to believe the NWO was going to try to confiscate guns. They got tired of hearing such talk and if they came back they would have to admit they where wrong

 :sarcasm:
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 06:11:38 PM by surfivor »

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2020, 07:12:11 PM »
Back in 2008 when TSP started, Spirko was actually on here quite a bit. I joined around September or October of that year
Wow, I didn't realize you were here that early.  You may be the oldest active member on the forum. 

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2020, 07:24:25 PM »
...activates :admin: ...

Oldest who posts regularly.  There are 3 others who have been here a bit longer and still login but don't post much.

Offline Carver

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2020, 09:44:51 PM »
Is it true that the person who started the "What did you do today to prep?" post was their only post?

The role of a survival/preparedness forum has to adapt so that it can survive. It is ironical that the mission of spreading the message has been so successful that it is the cause of it's demise; who needs it anymore when a local news story was giving pretty involved instructions on winter storm preparations that would've been found only on forums like this some years ago and would've been considered a little nuts for doing so.

What are the survival/preparedness concerns today? Judging from the recent posts it looks like it is of a civil, political nature. The loss of liberty, constitutional rule of law as well as civil violence is an issue all across the political landscape; from left to right. What goes into enduring what seems to be an inevitable civil turmoil comes down to the basics of survival; food, shelter, energy, security etc. A survival forum, such as this, sees this in a lot more depth than a local news story about surviving a winter storm.

Offline surfivor

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2020, 10:07:52 PM »
I haven’t been super active in survival stuff and have been doing a lot of guitar playing but I have learned a lot of stuff and am still a serous outdoorsman as I have always been

I didn’t have a BOL in 2008 and didn’t have a garden either. I bought 11 acres in 2010 in the backwoods , put a simple camp on that and started a garden in 2103 when I bought a house. I have probably slowed up a bit on trying new stuff in the garden but I have grown a lot of Swiss chard, romaine, and am working at growing more garlic.

I have more gear and survival stuff than I used to have but at some point I slowed down after a lot of basics seemed covered though not all. I still haven’t bought a generator but in a way I hate accumulating a lot of stuff I don’t use a lot

I actually don’t want to get into small scale farming but my attitude is that if I have to then I guess I will someday if that seems like the thing to do

TSP was related to politics because after 911 I was trying hard to understand what was going on in the world. By 2004 or 2006 I had developed a strong feeling that through banking, the federal reserve and other conspiracies that everything was rigged. Early on, I was reading books whereas now it’s more online and podcasts. When the crash in 2008 happened then I felt like survivalism was the thing because the powers that be where on a course to collapse the system. That still seems relevant but it didn’t play out the way it seemed it might or has taken longer

The first time I heard Alex jones I remember was around 2003 probably on short wave radio while camping on a cold and desolate beach with my truck camper in Maine in early May

The book by G Edward Griffin on the federal reserve was also a definitive read as well as probably a Jim Mars book on 911. My first book after 911 was trying to figure out what was al qaeda or who is bin laden. 911 is the start of what has been sending us down this road clearly. I was on a surfing trip and camped in Nova Scotia on 911
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 10:36:25 PM by surfivor »

Offline Gamer

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2020, 03:21:44 AM »
..it is mentioned that Jack Spirko hasn't logged in since 8 months ago and there is a whole bunch of previously very active participants that are not active..So, yeah, I am somewhat curious about TSP forum health.

My two cents for what its worth is that SPF has got over 50 forums and subforums and people are not sure exactly which one to post in much of the time, so maybe SPF should be streamlined by cutting out at least half of them?

Offline surfivor

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2020, 03:23:35 AM »
People who don’t believe in conspiracies will think that the 2008 crash is just a coincidence, that it’s part of some business cycle or maybe it’s connected to astrology. Since that is not the case, you can predict the general direction of things because it’s entirely synthetic or man made and you can study the various middle men and political entities involved in the manipulation and the very complex human psychology involved

Offline surfivor

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2020, 03:26:30 AM »
People who don’t believe in conspiracies will think that the 2008 crash is just a coincidence, that it’s part of some business cycle or maybe it’s connected to astrology. Since that is not the case, you can predict the general direction of things because it’s entirely synthetic or man made and you can study the various middle men and political entities involved in the manipulation and the very complex human psychology involved

Although there is very valuable and interesting content out there in those old threads for anyone who had the time to want to study them. From time to time I search them for certain keywords because I remember some old discussion that I want to reference for information

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2020, 07:27:07 AM »
Although there is very valuable and interesting content out there in those old threads for anyone who had the time to want to study them. From time to time I search them for certain keywords because I remember some old discussion that I want to reference for information

this.

Offline IKN

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2020, 08:10:06 AM »
Participation on a forum like this, and many others, have a lot of factors that effect it like:
1.   Amount of content. Many of the factors concerning the topic of "Survival" with its many attributes have been extensively covered. People get tired of beating a dead horse.
2.   Friendliness of forum membership, people don't stay if they feel abused or ignored. I've been a member of this forum since January of 2014 and can tell you there have been times where I got the impression that my participation and contributions were being totally ignored. I stayed because I value the content.
3.   Perception, the politics, economy, and other factors are not as much of a concern to a lot of people as much as they were.
People tend to be fickle. Just wait for the next looming economic crash or threat to their rights/freedoms comes along and I’ll bet both membership and participation will surge.

Offline Carver

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2020, 09:01:50 AM »
Quote
3.   Perception, the politics, economy, and other factors are not as much of a concern to a lot of people as much as they were.
People tend to be fickle. Just wait for the next looming economic crash or threat to their rights/freedoms comes along and I’ll bet both membership and participation will surge.
I agree, that's right on. "Beans & bullets" survival forums and podcasts eventually starve for lack of new material and then participants. They have only so much material and once a person finds what they're looking for they move on. Since "perception, the politics, economy, and other factors" is of concern for a smaller audience; a forum that can deliver relevant and current content without the hyperbole will not only survive, be valuable, but attain status as the "go to" place when "the next looming economic crash or threat to their rights/freedoms comes along".

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2020, 02:06:33 PM »
2.   Friendliness of forum membership, people don't stay if they feel abused or ignored. I've been a member of this forum since January of 2014 and can tell you there have been times where I got the impression that my participation and contributions were being totally ignored. I stayed because I value the content.
TSP forum tends to be a lot friendlier than any other survival forum that I've participated in.  But it really does go in cycles.  There are times where it seems like everyone on the forum is pissed off. 

Just after the 2016 election, there was way too much fighting going on because of the political forums.  The admins and moderators discussed it and that's the reason that we don't really have an active political discussion forum, we got rid of it to keep the peace.  This was not popular with everyone and we lost some long time members because we wanted to keep the TSP forum as a survival forum and not a political discussion forum.

Moderator hat off and forum member hat on....

I've been a member of many forums.  I don't know the background on when you felt that your contributions were not welcome, but there could be several reasons.  I know that as a long time member, there are times when somehow TSP gets the attention of a bunch of people that stop by to see what it's all about.  When that happens, a lot of those people will post some question that every member of the forum has already answered and there are a dozen threads about it on the first page of posts.  This tends to change the attitude towards that new person.  Some members will see that person as too lazy to even just look at the list of threads in the board they open.  I've been guilty of completely ignoring a new member's post because of this, I know it's wrong, but we are all human.

Moderator hat back on...


Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2020, 02:16:30 PM »
Is it true that the person who started the "What did you do today to prep?" post was their only post?
No, the person that started that thread posted 48 posts total.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: unsecure site
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2020, 03:59:52 PM »

I've been a member of many forums.  I don't know the background on when you felt that your contributions were not welcome, but there could be several reasons.  I know that as a long time member, there are times when somehow TSP gets the attention of a bunch of people that stop by to see what it's all about.  When that happens, a lot of those people will post some question that every member of the forum has already answered and there are a dozen threads about it on the first page of posts.  This tends to change the attitude towards that new person.  Some members will see that person as too lazy to even just look at the list of threads in the board they open.  I've been guilty of completely ignoring a new member's post because of this, I know it's wrong, but we are all human.

I have tried on other forums.  The big difference I have seen there (and admittedly, I did not stay long at any of them) is that necro-posting is forbidden.  Old topics are actually locked down.  So if new people come on and have had experiences elsewhere, there could be a feeling of "of course I have to re-ask the question" . which is why I will generally try to answer the new posts with links to previous questions.

I have been here for almost 11 years.  I have seen people come and go, some who leave, account and everything; some who just disappear with their accounts still active; some good friends have passed away and others I worry about and may never know.  And some people come back. 

There was a while where the posts were more humorous (hence my goose-smuggling appellation) and periods when it was more serious.  I stay because this forum is a wealth of information, and I have learned how to navigate the information for that.  I appreciate the mods and administrators.  I listened to Jack during the Jetta days before he moved to Arkansas, and even met him once at a Prepper Expo in Salt Lake City.  But I do not listen now.