Author Topic: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting  (Read 7937 times)

Offline Serellan

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Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« on: August 12, 2009, 12:34:40 PM »
Putting this here, instead of in firearms, because it is kind of a cross-over topic.

The podcast the other day interviewing James Yeager really got me thinking, and finally taking some positive action in regards to my wife’s approach to self defense in the home.  But not in the way you might think.
My wife is British, and she fundamentally does not have, nor does she want, the mental mindset to take a human life.  For years, I have been trying to talk her into going to the range, practicing, picking out a gun, etc.  I bought her a 10/22, which she never fired (she’s been to the range a couple of times and just didn’t like it, even someone else teaching and with good introduction firearms, she was good at it, just didn’t enjoy it), and recently had been trying to decide between getting her a Colt Police Positive in .38 Special or a 20 g youth Mossberg.  

However, listening to James, his comments made me realize two things.  First, I WAS assuming that if I kept things simple for my wife, she would be more open to a firearm for her in the home.  I had thought that my M500 12g was too big and imposing, and my Beretta 92FS was too complicated.  This was stupid.  Next, mindset.  I grew up with guns.  I have always had guns in my life and have always had the mindset of using them to defend myself, even before I joined the military.  My wife does not.  She neither has nor wants the mindset.

So, after thinking about this, I decided to explore less lethal defense for her in the house.  I still carry at home and have several home defense weapons, my wife has no problem with this, she just doesn’t want to use them (and even if her “killer instinct” kicked in, she wouldn’t have the training to use them).  Instead of constantly trying to pressure her to do something she doesn’t want, I am going to get her a Kimber JPX.  She is completely open to this type of defense, and it has several benefits over conventional pepper sprays for home defense, in that it "looks like a gun" (including laser & mounted light), goes "bang" when you pull the trigger, and limits "fogging" in indoor situations.  It will be expensive, but I plan to get either one with a built-in laser, and add a tactical flashlight, or a normal unit and get a flashlight/laser combo unit for it.  I will be getting the black unit.  I will get plently of practice cartridges, and we will practice firing it, tactical movement in the house with it, and defensive positioning in the house.  The other big benefit of this is we can practice shooting it in the backyard.



Now I know this is not an ideal, but my wife is extremely happy that I have finally actually listed to her feelings and have come up with a proactive approach, and she is excited about training with the LL weapon.  Plus, the fundamentals of the JPX are the same as a handgun, that is another reason I chose it over other options.

Will post a review and more information of the JPX once I get it.

Offline The Wilderness

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 01:33:40 PM »
Good job Serellen. I think that your approach is right on. Listening to her and what she is comfortable with, and finding a solution that pleases both of you is awesome.
Who knows, once she feels comfortable with this, she may open up to a firearm of her own in the home. It is good that she is excited about it, that means she will use it.

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 04:26:10 PM »
Good job Serellan for listening... That's the hardest part at times.

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 05:15:26 PM »
Serellan, as good as that Kimber is, I don't see any real advantage over a conventional $9 can of Punch II or CapStun Pepper Spray. $449 is a lot of cash.

Pepper Spray is great for lots of events. I endorse it and hold classes for .gov folks all the time on it. I don't think it is that great for home defense. Here's why;

When a suspect is sprayed with an effective burst he'll feel intense pain in his eyes, he'll cough uncontrollably, he'll have snot down to his knees. He will have less ability to see, run, and fight...but he won't be subdued. On the streets after you've sprayed someone, your best bet as an intended victim is to run away. That is the edge the OC (oleoresin capsicum) gives you. In your home, you could do the same I suppose, but my wife would have to grab our four remaining girls and get out of the home. All while a very pissed off intruder was starting to get his shit together and get ready for round two.

Cops carry pepper spray because after we sprayed someone, they were easier to cuff and take into custody. A taser was used the same way, it lasted five seconds, which gave us time to cuff them. Again, on the streets, a taser seems to be a viable option because you can get a five second head start.

If your spouse sprays or tases someone in the home and she can't follow up with a more permanent solution (cuffs, holding him at gunpoint, locking herself in the panic room, etc) then he will recover and he may be angry enough to cause more harm than he originally intended.

I'm not saying to not get her the Kimber. It is your money, but their claims of effectiveness are no better than what the cone-shaped mist pepper spray does anyway. I'd spend the $9 on a simple small can of the OC and use the remaining $ beefing up my door/lockswindows/motion sensors, personal protection training, training a good dog, etc. At the very least you can get about 10 $9 cans and stash them where she can always reach one. That Kimber looks awfully large and I see something like that eventually gathering dust in a dresser drawer.

I do not endorse burglar alarms. The current Brinks/Broadview security commercials should be banned. I know what alarm response time is and it is not the 2.5 seconds that the commercial shows.

Anyway, I understand your wife doesn't the mindset to use a deadly weapon on someone. I respect your recognition of that fact and your willingness to stop "pushing" her to be someone she isn't.

Goatdog

Offline Serellan

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 06:41:56 PM »
Serellan, as good as that Kimber is, I don't see any real advantage over a conventional $9 can of Punch II or CapStun Pepper Spray. $449 is a lot of cash.

Pepper Spray is great for lots of events. I endorse it and hold classes for .gov folks all the time on it. I don't think it is that great for home defense. Here's why;

When a suspect is sprayed with an effective burst he'll feel intense pain in his eyes, he'll cough uncontrollably, he'll have snot down to his knees. He will have less ability to see, run, and fight...but he won't be subdued. On the streets after you've sprayed someone, your best bet as an intended victim is to run away. That is the edge the OC (oleoresin capsicum) gives you. In your home, you could do the same I suppose, but my wife would have to grab our four remaining girls and get out of the home. All while a very pissed off intruder was starting to get his shit together and get ready for round two.

Cops carry pepper spray because after we sprayed someone, they were easier to cuff and take into custody. A taser was used the same way, it lasted five seconds, which gave us time to cuff them. Again, on the streets, a taser seems to be a viable option because you can get a five second head start.

If your spouse sprays or tases someone in the home and she can't follow up with a more permanent solution (cuffs, holding him at gunpoint, locking herself in the panic room, etc) then he will recover and he may be angry enough to cause more harm than he originally intended.

I'm not saying to not get her the Kimber. It is your money, but their claims of effectiveness are no better than what the cone-shaped mist pepper spray does anyway. I'd spend the $9 on a simple small can of the OC and use the remaining $ beefing up my door/lockswindows/motion sensors, personal protection training, training a good dog, etc. At the very least you can get about 10 $9 cans and stash them where she can always reach one. That Kimber looks awfully large and I see something like that eventually gathering dust in a dresser drawer.

I do not endorse burglar alarms. The current Brinks/Broadview security commercials should be banned. I know what alarm response time is and it is not the 2.5 seconds that the commercial shows.

Anyway, I understand your wife doesn't the mindset to use a deadly weapon on someone. I respect your recognition of that fact and your willingness to stop "pushing" her to be someone she isn't.

Goatdog

Thanks for the comments.  I do know about OC, I carried it for four years as an MP and have had it used on myself, and had several opportunities to use it to subdue people, including drunk violent Marines intent on doing me harm.

The reason I chose the Kimber over a spray can is because of the ability to attach a light to it, and also the lessening of "fogging" inside.  I've sprayed OC in an enclosed space (stupid!), and got almost as much as my target.  My wife is asthmatic and getting a breathful of aerosol OC would be extremely bad.  Plus, with a 3 year old, stashing OC around the house is not something I would be comfortable with.

The plan would be for her to egress the house and go for help in this case, she not going to be holing up and "defending" the house with OC.  I plan to be very clear with her on what the effects will be, probably to the tune on letting her use it on me so I can demonstrate (man, I don't look forward to that again!).

I agree, it's expensive, and I will be keeping an eye out on getting one for less than retail, but when I look at the cost of the gun I had planned to buy her that she would never use, things even out.

Goatdog62

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 06:47:44 PM »
Then i say go for it. I will say that the pepper ball may still affect her because it basically turns into an aerosol upon bursting. He's have to be a good 20 feet away for her to avoid that. When we used pepper projectiles on suspects, we felt the mist very quickly at even 15 - 20 feet.

Offline Serellan

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 07:00:18 PM »
Then i say go for it. I will say that the pepper ball may still affect her because it basically turns into an aerosol upon bursting. He's have to be a good 20 feet away for her to avoid that. When we used pepper projectiles on suspects, we felt the mist very quickly at even 15 - 20 feet.

Thanks man, we will definitely be testing it out.

Offline Darkwinter

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 07:59:32 PM »
Marriage is one compromise after another, you are a good husband to make her to understand you need to protect her, while taking her thoughts into consideration as well.

I hope you find it on sale, and I hope you never have to use it.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 10:37:38 PM »
Serellan;

Have you tried to interest her in other parts of survival?  Gardening, canning, pickling, land navigation, first aid, primitive living skills?  These things all sort of snowball into being prepared for things beyond her control.  Eventually it should lead her around to being prepared for someone to take what is hers.  Its roundabout, but it might lead her to the idea of self-defense eventually.

Offline Serellan

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 11:39:44 PM »
Serellan;

Have you tried to interest her in other parts of survival?  Gardening, canning, pickling, land navigation, first aid, primitive living skills?  These things all sort of snowball into being prepared for things beyond her control.  Eventually it should lead her around to being prepared for someone to take what is hers.  Its roundabout, but it might lead her to the idea of self-defense eventually.


Lol, kind of the point of my post is that after 14 years with my wife, I've finally accepted that I need to stop trying to "lead" her into ideas and accept and adapt to her mindset. 

Brewguy

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 10:24:00 AM »
I'm sorry but I don't buy it.  Your wife thinks she doesn't want to shoot someone to prevent her own rape, murder, or what ever.  I think she is lying.  By not training to defend herself she is able to keep pretending that those things can't happen to her.  I just can't beleive that she has such little self worth that she would rather let someone rape her than hurt them.  Do you have kids yet?  Is he willing to defend them? 

I'm not saying she has to want to carry, or ever even shoot.  To say she doesn't want to protect herself throws up a flag as being BS.  She probably just assumes nothing will ever happen, so she will let you get some pepper spray because she doesn't think she will ever need it.

Good luck.

Offline Serellan

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 11:32:12 AM »
I'm sorry but I don't buy it.  Your wife thinks she doesn't want to shoot someone to prevent her own rape, murder, or what ever.  I think she is lying.  By not training to defend herself she is able to keep pretending that those things can't happen to her.  I just can't beleive that she has such little self worth that she would rather let someone rape her than hurt them.  Do you have kids yet?  Is he willing to defend them? 

I'm not saying she has to want to carry, or ever even shoot.  To say she doesn't want to protect herself throws up a flag as being BS.  She probably just assumes nothing will ever happen, so she will let you get some pepper spray because she doesn't think she will ever need it.

Good luck.

Interesting comments.  I'll try to clarify instead of reading into your post and responding with my gut.

I never said she would let someone hurt her or our child rather than harm them.  I'm saying she does not have the instant, no-thought, no-hestitation mindset needed to effectively engage a target with lethal force.  And since it is stupid to expect someone who does not shoot or carry or train with a firearm to use one to defend themselves, I am looking for an option that she will train with.

Does that clarify things for you?

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2009, 10:05:24 AM »
It's a good plan but......

Just as a friendly/undisrespectful/unconfrintational/don't kick my ass for it sugestion before you spend a lot of $.

Your wife is Asthmatic?  This + OC + being indoors is not a good thing.  She needs exposure to OC so she knows it's effects first hand (spraying you will only give her a "second hand" exposure).  She needs to know how she will react to it.  Having to fend off an intruder while protecting a 3yr old is a bad time to find out that you will be crippled by OC's effects.  Also, you should consult her doctor about her being exposed to any OC before you do any of this.

Pepper ball guns are great, but once the bad guy finds out that she's not pointing a "Real gun" at them, well, anyway.......

I have seen OC, and pepper ball's used on so many inmates I lost track of them, and the results very greatly from "OH MY GOD I'M GONNA DIE!!!!, to "Can I have some more for my Burrito" (honest).

It's far from a sure thing, and I would not want it used in my house around my children.

If your wife will not learn to use a gun for her own protection, why will she not learn to use one to protect her children?  If you have guns in the house, she needs to know how they work.  If she has a last minute "Change of heart" and reaches for a gun, not knowing how to make ot go bang, will only make things worse.

Now if your still here, and not plotting my death, I do comend you for trying to reach a middle ground with your wife on this, and who knows, maybe I'm full of shit, and it will work for her.....  Just tring to help ya' look at this from as many angles as you can.

Yer' in a tough spot, Good luck Bro.




Offline cartpusher

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2009, 10:46:52 AM »
Here is my idea - something I have been kicking around for my own house - what if you were to mount a less than lethal option to the under side of your home defense weapon.  Like mounting pepper spray where grenade launcher would be on the under side of an AR?  (of course haven't worked out the detail yet.)  But this would give you a less than lethal option, without having to put down your lethal option.  You could spray someone, while still having your rifle pointed at them, in case the OC wasn't enough. 

Now maybe I am messing up the whole mindset thing by giving myself an option like that.  I am just thinking what if you hear somebody downstairs, you grab your rifle, and it turns out your neighbors teenage son has broken in, is unarmed, but is messed up on something, and may do you harm.  Would you like another option rather than shooting him? yet you still want to have a lethal option if need be.

Offline phuttan

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2009, 11:20:11 AM »
Good job. While a pepper spray gun may not be the best HD weapon, you can't force your mindset into someone else's head. It's like Jack has said in past podcasts about talking to neighbors about preps. Telling that they have to prep won't work. It works better if you ask a question that gets them thinking. If they come around to our mindset good. But you can't force them to and have no right to force them. The same thing applies to family. If she's comfortable with this idea, then it's a good idea. In time, her mindset may drift closer to yours, but you can't force it. Do what you can and let her do what she can. Once again I say good job.
Pat

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2009, 11:40:08 AM »
Interesting comments.  I'll try to clarify instead of reading into your post and responding with my gut.

I never said she would let someone hurt her or our child rather than harm them.  I'm saying she does not have the instant, no-thought, no-hestitation mindset needed to effectively engage a target with lethal force.  And since it is stupid to expect someone who does not shoot or carry or train with a firearm to use one to defend themselves, I am looking for an option that she will train with.

Does that clarify things for you?

I understand what you are saying.  I'm not sure how much training one needs to be able to operate a shotgun.  She could never shoot one and be able to defend her and the kids, I mean you point and shoot them. 

I know you don't agree but my thought would be it is best to show her how the shotgun funtions.  Don't tell her you expect her to shoot or anything, just that for your own peice of mind you need her to understand how it works. 

I think if you are of the mindset to defend it doesn't matter what the weapon is. 

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2009, 06:32:59 PM »
If she sees looting she'll warm up to a gun. 


Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2009, 07:09:15 PM »
I understand what you are saying.  I'm not sure how much training one needs to be able to operate a shotgun.  She could never shoot one and be able to defend her and the kids, I mean you point and shoot them.  

I think this is an outright stupid thing to say.  First of all, you don't just "point and shoot" any gun.  You need to be comfortable with it, understand it, know how to use it, and have the ability mentally to know that you could take a human life.  Period.  An untrained person with ANY gun is more of a threat to those he or she is trying to protect than the intruder.  What if the gun isn't loaded, and she doesn't know how to load it?  She picks it up, and Johnny-attacker sees it and decides to use lethal force against her?  She's just basically killed herself by picking up a widely recognized weapon that she was NOT PREPARED TO USE.

In the case of "oh I'm going to bust into your house and rape you" a butcher knife would be a much better weapon for her (as a last minute, "omg I need something sharp and scary") than a firearm she is terrified of.

Forcing anybody (ANYBODY) to use a weapon that they are terrified of, and not interested in using is (1) not intelligent, and (2) not safe (because if they don't want to learn about it, they will shut down).

Maybe she will decide later on that a gun is okay.  And if she does, that's awesome.  But if she doesn't, this pepper spray thing is a whole hell of a lot better than nothing at all.

Serellan, just keep reminding her that she has other options too.  There are knives in the kitchen, keep a baseball bat next to the couch (or whatever), and - oh, I don't know - a hammer in the bathroom.  Have her use it in the backyard against a pole, or dummy.  Show her where the pressure points are.  Where she will be most effective.  That sort of thing.

Instead of intimidating somebody who isn't there yet with the whole firearms thing, and pretending to be oh so much smarter than she is by telling her how stupid she is for not wanting to kill people, get her as prepared as she allows you to get her.  That's ALL you can do.

As for my personal opinion about Serellan's wife - I don't think she's stupid at all.  She grew up in a completely different society from the one we share today.  I think it's awesome that she's open minded enough to even consider pepper spray.  I hope that she never needs it, and that the training is good for nothing more than a few hours spent with your wife.  But if she does need it, and she knows how to use it (and one of the many makeshift weapons our households always hold), she will be a whole heck of a lot more prepared than MOST of the rest of the USA.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 07:30:37 PM by Sister Wolf »

sage0925

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2009, 07:49:28 PM »
I'd get the Kimber. It's a lot scarier looking than a can of mace (harder to palm, though), and if you haven't seen one before, which I hadn't, a lot of people wouldn't know it not to be a firearm of some sort.

I'd paint that orange thingie gun metal gray, though.

Offline eno

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2009, 09:01:51 PM »
Newbie to prepping here - I may get a few flames as well, but FWIW - I think listening to your wife's view of guns and your solution is wonderful.

I don't have a gun, and frankly have never really considered one until recently. I'm still undecided; I guess I'll have to see things really start to get worse - heading for riots and such - before I'll see a real reason for one. Here's why: I was raised around guns, and my father made sure we all knew how to shoot them and how to handle them safely. I've shot wild animals hurt by cars before, but that's about it - and that was with a borrowed gun. I might very well be the only one in the family without a gun (which is why I'm not concerned about getting one late in the game). However, I don't like them - I've seen them give way too many people a false sense of security/bravado that got them into situations that they could have easily avoided. And without a LOT of training, having a gun at home might well be the quickest way to get shot if someone breaks in. It's not just shooting the thing, it's the entire mindset behind using it for that purpose. I find that prevention is far better for me - I don't have a fancy house, expensive car, or leave boxes from expensive purchases sitting by the curb. I don't have one of those subscription alarms services, but I do have extra locks on all my doors and windows, and they are used every night. I don't dress in expensive clothes or wear a lot of bling. Most purchases that may suggest I have something of value are paid in cash. I don't live in an unsafe neighborhood, I don't walk alone at night, I don't go exercising with earphones on. I try to be aware of my surroundings and situation at all times, and by now it's second nature, not stressful at all.

My defense consists of pepper spray, a couple of awesome huge golf clubs bought at a thrift store for a buck each, a military baton that I know how to use well enough, a few knives, a great dog, etc. I will defend myself and my family, but a gun at home is so much responsibility and possible danger that I feel it's just not worth the tradeoff. I would kill an attacker, but I would never forgive myself if someone I loved were hurt by accident - and the chances of the accident vs. the intruder are about double in my experience. I'm planning some more self-defense classes soon, but for me, prevention is more important - and has worked very well.

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2009, 09:16:30 PM »
Newbie to prepping here - I may get a few flames as well, but FWIW - I think listening to your wife's view of guns and your solution is wonderful.


Flaming won't be tolerated here, so if we don't catch it, let us know.

I respect your decision with firearms. It is a responsible, well thought out decision. I think a golf club across my neck would smart a little bit. ;D

Offline ZUPIII

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2009, 09:47:55 PM »
 
Quote
Newbie to prepping here - I may get a few flames as well, but FWIW - I think listening to your wife's view of guns and your solution is wonderful.

I don't have a gun, and frankly have never really considered one until recently. I'm still undecided; I guess I'll have to see things really start to get worse - heading for riots and such - before I'll see a real reason for one. Here's why: I was raised around guns, and my father made sure we all knew how to shoot them and how to handle them safely. I've shot wild animals hurt by cars before, but that's about it - and that was with a borrowed gun. I might very well be the only one in the family without a gun (which is why I'm not concerned about getting one late in the game). However, I don't like them - I've seen them give way too many people a false sense of security/bravado that got them into situations that they could have easily avoided. And without a LOT of training, having a gun at home might well be the quickest way to get shot if someone breaks in. It's not just shooting the thing, it's the entire mindset behind using it for that purpose. I find that prevention is far better for me - I don't have a fancy house, expensive car, or leave boxes from expensive purchases sitting by the curb. I don't have one of those subscription alarms services, but I do have extra locks on all my doors and windows, and they are used every night. I don't dress in expensive clothes or wear a lot of bling. Most purchases that may suggest I have something of value are paid in cash. I don't live in an unsafe neighborhood, I don't walk alone at night, I don't go exercising with earphones on. I try to be aware of my surroundings and situation at all times, and by now it's second nature, not stressful at all.

My defense consists of pepper spray, a couple of awesome huge golf clubs bought at a thrift store for a buck each, a military baton that I know how to use well enough, a few knives, a great dog, etc. I will defend myself and my family, but a gun at home is so much responsibility and possible danger that I feel it's just not worth the tradeoff. I would kill an attacker, but I would never forgive myself if someone I loved were hurt by accident - and the chances of the accident vs. the intruder are about double in my experience. I'm planning some more self-defense classes soon, but for me, prevention is more important - and has worked very well.

I was reading what Eno you wrote about not owning a gun and laying low, and had a little revelation. I'm not criticizing you at all, it's just that your post made me think. I felt pretty much the same way until a couple of years ago. I suddenly realized that my longtime girlfriend and our pets were more than just a long term relationship, this was my family. We had been to the edge of calling it quits and back. Why she hung around that long until I got it together is beyond me and beside the point. We lived in an apartment complex that was beginning to go south and I worried about her, our stuff, like our P.A. system that was our main means of income and most serious investment, and felt like I should do more. As much as we tried to be low key and hide our equipment I knew we could be targets.

Even today as we prepare our first house for big move, I have this indescribable urge to prepare and protect to the best of my ability for them. Like many people on this forum, I am gradually trying to change her way of thinking about being prepared and she is totally on board with it in most respects, although I'm sure it's not her first thought when she gets up in the morning like it is mine.

I guess my point is, I didn't buy the gun for my own protection as much as I felt I needed to go the extra mile for this person I care so much for, so I wouldn't ever have to second guess myself is something bad happened. I didn't feel like this until I realized how important they all are to me. That same line of thinking has led me here to TSP and hopefully to a self sufficient life in the future.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2009, 09:50:47 PM »
Can you imagine a golf club to the face?  Holy crap, that'd hurt.  Or to the groin?  Dang.  Yeesh.

hums a little diddy while I search craig's list for a used golf club ;D

Offline ZUPIII

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2009, 09:56:51 PM »
And by the way, my weapon of choice before I bought the gun was a 33-1/2" Easton Ultra lite aluminum bat with a Rod Carew inspired swing!  ;D

Offline flagtag

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2009, 10:05:45 PM »
Another nice little tool for defence would be a fifth wheel pin puller!  THAT might hurt a bit!  (Long handle with two bent prongs on the end.  ;D) Heavy duty, too.

Offline Pathfinder

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2009, 05:55:26 AM »
People here are posting great ideas for "impromptu" weapons. Problem is, your wife may have to use what she has at hand where ever she is. Adapting to using a kitchen knife or stapler or broken drinking glass is keyed to a survival mindset - and being attacked is the worst possible time to acquire that mindset. Better than not acquiring it at all, but still not a good time to learn. Besides, if a BG is that close, close enough to use a knife or baseball bat, things will be very ugly. Better to drop them at 10 feet than stab hand-to-hand. And if it is a real BG, what are the odds that he knows how to defend himself against a knife or other close-in hand weapon? Pretty good I would think.

As Jack has noted in the podcasts, and others have said on this site, "what if" questions need to be asked - and answered, they are not rhetorical. What if there is a fire, what if there is a tornado, what if there is a home invasion?

Reviews of crimes, especially in the neighborhood, are another approach. Our local Sheriff publishes a monthly list of service calls and the general area or street in our small town - try to get the PD reports for where you live and discuss the "what ifs" with her and have her come up with a plan of response.

sarahluker

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2009, 04:19:52 PM »
Two things come to mind if you have qualms about using a firearm (which I don't). 
The first may sound a bit crazy but I understand it works and it's cheap.  Wasp spray.  The straw on the end lets you reach great distances and it totally incapacitates a human until the get the antidote in an ER.
The second is a good old aluminum baseball bat.  A couple of days ago I heard about a young man who saved his family by beating the intruder in his house to within an inch of his life.  You can keep them around the house safely and have them at hand by the front door or by your bed.

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2009, 05:15:44 PM »
How about a cane or umbrella?  Both legal to carry anywhere.

sarahluker

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2009, 05:20:12 PM »
Somehow I'm flashing to myself 20 years from now wielding an umbrella with style!

Offline monkeyboyf

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Re: Accepting the wife's mindset re home-defense, and acting
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2009, 05:44:42 PM »
Two things come to mind if you have qualms about using a firearm (which I don't). 
The first may sound a bit crazy but I understand it works and it's cheap.  Wasp spray.  The straw on the end lets you reach great distances and it totally incapacitates a human until the get the antidote in an ER.
The second is a good old aluminum baseball bat.  A couple of days ago I heard about a young man who saved his family by beating the intruder in his house to within an inch of his life.  You can keep them around the house safely and have them at hand by the front door or by your bed.
GoatDog made a great point when I heard about the wasp spray as defense by an email.  Pepper spray is much better and not considered assault with a deadly weapon like the wasp spray could be.  Will try to find the post for you. Made me think about it again. :-\