Author Topic: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?  (Read 3789 times)

islander87

  • Guest
Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« on: October 04, 2009, 09:13:23 PM »
I don't know if this is the right place to post this but my question is do you guys really think the country side is really the best place to bug out? I mean yea while the rural area does have advantages such as having more land to be able to grow food and own livestock and also access to more resources such as a spring or a well. But do you guys really think its the safest place to be WTSHTF? I know that if your are in a secluded area you are away from all the rioting and looting etc. but think of it this way don't you think that in a WTSHTF type scenario the bad guys are going to want to take shelter in secluded areas as well? And i know you guys are going to say I have my guns but you can't be on guard on your property 24/7 so you never know. Don't you think the bad guys will want to invade and take shelter in secluded areas because they know that whoever is living in those areas can not call for help because they are isolated from the rest of the more populated areas, also the National Guard won't be trying to protect rural area towns they will be trying to help more populated major cites  not the rural town that has a few people. So the bad guys will want to go to the rural side where there are not a lot of people. And if they do manage to take over think of the horror they will usually stay for days and torture not only you but your families as well haven't you guys heard of cases like that where home invasion robbers take over homes of families who live in secluded rural areas? Criminals know that families who live in the rural area are isolated and think that the are vulnerable to attack. Now i am not saying the city is any safer because you are more exposed to rioters and looters but in my opinion it is better to bug out in a suburban area like a small town community or sub division, you don't exactly have a lot of land to grow a lot of food but you can still have a small garden and in my opinion it is not a place where bad guys want to invade because they know it is not isolated like a rural area while you are still away from big large populated cities where all the looting and rioting take place. But this is just my opinion if you guys think the rural area make a better Bug out Location tell my why? I would like to hear all of your opinions

Goatdog62

  • Guest
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2009, 09:52:15 PM »
All the things you mention are possibilities, but IMHO probabilities are what you should prep for first. In a total-SHTF scenario:

Food will run out in the urban areas. If you have some food, expect just plain old hungry people to come after it, not to mention the organized gangs of looters. This will cause you to make decisions that you will live or die with. In an urban environment it is easy to find you because hiding your existence is next to impossible. In an urban environment your chances of exposure to the inevitable diseases (cholera, typhoid, etc) are increased. Water will be hard to get or possibly contaminated if you do find it. gathering enough firewood for long-term cooking and warmth will be pretty tough. All of these probabilities are "game over man." You could grow a garden but you indicated that guarding anything 24/7 would be tough for you. I suppose if you built a fortress  (castle) in an urban environment and stashed a very large amount of sustenance supplies, you might pull it off as the masses died off around you. Sounds like a monumental effort to me.

A properly thought out BOL has limited access, is hard to find in the first place, has prepared sectors of fire, and a well-rehearsed plan. Yes, I can guard my BOL 24/7. I have enough folks to do so. Neither of my BOLs intended occupants are my immediate family only, they are a small-knit group of people I know and trust. I believe in the strength of numbers. There will be more mouths to feed but we have dedicated preps for that. It makes me feel better because I have a few hundred miles to get to my family if something brewed up overnight. My "group" will take care of them while I work on getting there. We have a variety of skills and equipment. That means all of us don't have to have everything. My BOLs have water sources (probably most critical sustenance you'll need) and we have ways of making it drinkable should that be necessary. I won't reveal numbers, but if even 1/3 show up, we'll be good to go.

In lesser SHTF scenarios, the possibilities are endless and it could be a coin toss as to which is the better place to be. For instance, I believe utilities will be restored in a city before the country gets back fixed. It's all a gamble and makes you think doesn't it.

Goatdog

Offline TexDaddy

  • TSP Goat Wrangling Geezer. He is EVIL also.
  • Moderator On Leave
  • Forum Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 12300
  • Karma: 265
  • I live in Texas. What country are you from?
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2009, 09:54:45 PM »
First off, no matter where you are, you are taking your chances.

Trying to mitigate the possibilities you mention, I have selected a rural setting, that is in the back half a community of 1-5 acre lots. Plenty of like minded people around and more firepower per square inch than most places. Even a little volunteer fire department. It is going to take a lot of them to get past the Ochoa place.

No place is perfect. Just have to figure out what you are bugging out from. You are correct, wandering hordes can show up anywhere. That is one reason I chose not to be totally isolated. Community is good. I just want to be away from where they will be when they start.

Offline shadowalker_returns

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Karma: 16
  • MSB Member
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2009, 06:33:42 PM »
It depends... For some people and in some situations going Rural would be a mistake. Contrary to popular survivalist literature not everyone is cut out for rural living. Folks who make their life in the rural environment are in some ways vastly confusing to someone who has never lived in the country (and visa-versa). If you have never lived in the country and have never befriended someone from a rural background, TSHTF is probably not the best time to make new friends. It takes time to become trusted within any real community (urban or rural). If your trying to escape the problems inherent in a large city and your not the rural/country type, try finding a small town (less than 5000 people) to live in to ease your transition. Traveling gangs are I believe an over-rated threat to most rural communities. Time and again American history has shown that in lawless times, gangs that abuse the hospitality of rural communities tend to disappear. Most of these communities have more to fear from the Feds than the gangs. Most rural police have no problem in requesting help from their neighbors to form up and deal with gangs. Nowadays I'm of the opinion that its the fear of federal reprisals that prevent most small communities from dealing with troublesome rogues. Once a group of MZBs is identified in TSHTF and TEOTWAWKI the local Sherif's department together with a few volunteers could handle even a rather large group of criminals. You actually face greater isolation in the Major Cities than you do in most rural communities. Furthermore once the bad elements in a city realize there is nothing to hold them back, nothing will hold them back. Just look at the circumstances and behaviors during the riots in recent times. In Los Angeles the shear volume of lawlessness made it impossible for police to respond to individual calls for help but those who had personal community (and modern weapons) held off assults by the lawless. Same held true during Katrina until "Legal" authority tipped the scales back to the lawless by disarming entire communities.

If your going to bug-In within a city think total isolation, invisibility and develop some community. You'll need a proportionate increase in your preps to allow help other less prepared members of your local community and weapons that seem innocuous but give the ability to engage and repel multiple opponents. Then you'll need to stash additional copies of same in case your visible weapons are confiscated by "legal" authority. Also if bugging-in in the city you will definitely need a fall back location in case fire or other massive event forces you to leave your primary residence. Remember what history has shown us...that thrown objects and fire are most mobs first choice in weapons and You will have to survive mobs when the common people of the city begin to realize that dying of thirst and starvation is a real possibility.

Regards,
Shadowalker

Offline Cacinok

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 396
  • Karma: 6
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2009, 12:00:27 PM »
i live out in the country and have no plan to bug out, unless my home gets destroyed, we run out of preps or the fall out is heading our way.  sure the looters will likely head out into the country, but they will go through the city and suburbs first.  so unless, as shadowwalker states, the city folk can make themselves invisible, they'll have to deal w/ the MZBs first.  part of the allure of the country BOL is that you are a ways out from the masses.  distance alone will discourage many bad guys.

i'm roughly 30 miles outside of OKC.  if TSHTF the hoards will will likely flee in all kinds of directions.  a small few will follow i 35 in my direction, i'm far enough from the freeway that the looters won't make it to my area.  if they do, however, then i'm confident that my neighbors (there are some w/i a few miles form me) will quickly join together and support/protect each other.  even if the looters don't appear the neighbors are the ones i'll be trading milk and eggs w/ so mutual aid will be a priority.  my inlaws and a number of friends would likely bug out to my place, so it wouldn't be impossible to post a guard 24/7. 

one large benefit living in the country has is that when the .gov starts rounding people up - if it ever got to that - they're not likely to come all the way out and check the 5 houses that are on the mile of road i live on.  they'll have enough trouble w/ the cities. 

is the country perfect, no, but i'll take my chances here whether TSHTF or not.

Offline Preppernation

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 1
    • "Prepper" Nation
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 03:08:32 PM »
I'm in with my vote for the rural BOL... I say rural but not isolated. My BOL is outside a town of roughly 3500 folks and it is the county seat. The County has less than 20K population total. This said I have neighbors with in LOUD shouting distance and definitely with in gun shot distance. We are quite private and no one can see our place but if the "poops a flyin", I have folks that will be comin quick. These are just neighbors that already are there. If TSHTF, I imagine I'll become the most popular family member pretty darn fast. We aren't as well armed as some but we'll have more armed security on location than anybody near by...

Our plan is to be full time at the BOL with in the next 3 years... Times a ticken and I wouldn't be surprised if the economic situation had us full timing long before we had planned on it!

Prepper

Offline The Sage of Monticello

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 332
  • Karma: 22
  • Lover of Liberty
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 09:28:12 PM »
What a great question Islander. This has been a debate in my household.

My 2 cents: Out of sight, out of mind. In the suburbs, there's high visibility ranging from seeing if you have a garden in the backyard to solar panels on your roof, etc.

Granted, there certainly will be roaming hordes who will be looking for hard to find items to score like firearms in rural areas. However, you can make your BOL secured from attacks with a larger perimeter than a home in a neighborhood giving you advanced warning.

In fact, in a SHTF fuel will be scarce and eventually your food could run out or be stolen. Bad guys won't have a limitless supply of fuel, transportation, to comb through rural areas in the mountains looking for spots to hit especially knowing they will encounter .

Moreover, in a true Marshal Law situation. I can see military soldiers going house to house confiscating weapons creating controlled zones. Almost like when the military checked dwellings in Iraq and confiscated weapons that were hidden that could be used for the Taliban or threats.

Military taking weapons away from citizens would make suburbs prone to home invasions for food and other stuff, IMO.

Goatdog62

  • Guest
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 09:30:50 PM »
What a great question Islander. This has been a debate in my household.

My 2 cents: Out of sight, out of mind. In the suburbs, there's high visibility ranging from seeing if you have a garden in the backyard to solar panels on your roof, etc.

Granted, there certainly will be roaming hordes who will be looking for hard to find items to score like firearms in rural areas. However, you can make your BOL secured from attacks with a larger perimeter than a home in a neighborhood giving you advanced warning.

In fact, in a SHTF fuel will be scarce and eventually your food could run out or be stolen. Bad guys won't have a limitless supply of fuel, transportation, to comb through rural areas in the mountains looking for spots to hit especially knowing they will encounter .

Moreover, in a true Marshal Law situation. I can see military soldiers going house to house confiscating weapons creating controlled zones. Almost like when the military checked dwellings in Iraq and confiscated weapons that were hidden that could be used for the Taliban or threats.

Military taking weapons away from citizens would make suburbs prone to home invasions for food and other stuff, IMO.

I don't think there has ever been a Taliban presence in Iraq.

Maverick68

  • Guest
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 11:11:35 PM »
Out here in Ruralsville, everyone has a well.  Everyone has a wood fireplace.  Many people have generators.  Most have guns, gardens, tractors, animals and such.  Here, I am just another neighbor (with a well stocked pantry and a thought out plan).

In the city, I would not have a well (can't dig one in the city).  No room for garden, tractors or animals.  Would be the first ones on the list to have my guns confiscated.  And if I ran the generator and wood fireplace, I would stick out like a Santa Clause!

Offline The Sage of Monticello

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 332
  • Karma: 22
  • Lover of Liberty
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 04:57:36 PM »
I don't think there has ever been a Taliban presence in Iraq

I actually agree. Should have said enemy combatants.

islander87

  • Guest
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 09:25:21 AM »
So to summarize what you guys said, are you guys basically saying that even though both the rural and suburbs have pros and cons the pros of a rural side out weigh the cons? Also that the rural area is still more secure if you add security measures? And that when choosing BOL rural is still the way to go but not a secluded rural area but a rural area that is a tightly knit community where neighbors watch out for each other Is that what most of you guys think?

Goatdog62

  • Guest
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 09:42:47 AM »
So to summarize what you guys said, are you guys basically saying that even though both the rural and suburbs have pros and cons the pros of a rural side out weigh the cons? Also that the rural area is still more secure if you add security measures? And that when choosing BOL rural is still the way to go but not a secluded rural area but a rural area that is a tightly knit community where neighbors watch out for each other Is that what most of you guys think?

I do, the only difference being that my tightly knit community consists of people I've invited.

No one can say anyone else is wrong. I choose rural and advise those around me the same, but there may be areas where urban works out better. I do know that better prepping makes any location a little bit safer than not prepping. I'd rather be fully prepped (if such a thing exists) in an urban BOL than stuck out in the Grand Tetons in January with only a knife.

Offline Cacinok

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 396
  • Karma: 6
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 09:59:27 AM »
pretty good summary islander.

i've thought about this as i've read this forum and others about similar topics in the last few days.  being rural, effectively reduces your systemic dependence.  for example, for a suburbanite to get water, there are numerous interrelated steps and processes that occur for that water to become potable and to get from the reservoir to the household tap.   any breakdown of a step will stop the flow of water.  in contrast, being rural you generally have a well which includes a limited number of steps/systems to get that water into the house (i.e., electric pump, pressure tank, and faucets).  worst case scenario, i draw water the old fashion way by dropping a pvc pipe bucket and pulling water up w/ a rope.  waste management is similar, a smaller independent system versus a large multiple system dependent process. 

i've heard jack mention something to the effect that prepping makes us less reliant on the massive systems.  being rural further reduces systemic dependence.  being rural, but w/ some neighbors, replaces systems such as PD, FD (to an extent) w/ neighbors

Offline volwest

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 237
  • Karma: 20
    • Le survivaliste
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2009, 10:46:50 AM »
I guess it depends on the nature of the S in the HTF.
There were times in history where rural areas saw a much bigger body count than cities in difficult times such as the potato famine of Ireland for example, or the dust bowl here...or most of Africa today. Some African countries today, seeing mass revolts, ethnic cleansing and unstable governments (SHTF), are less prone to mass killings in urban environments than rural areas.

I think we tend to narrow down the S, in the HTF, to a very specific nature that would indeed make the rural BOL more adapted to long term survival...but we tend to forget about other possibilities. There are tornadoes, harsh winters, droughts, floods and much more that could impact a rural BOL, and affect long term survival probabilities.

The issues with cities are pretty obvious...and under certain conditions, and for the sake of long term survival, a rural BOL will be the most adaptive solution and give us the best probabilities in relation to survival. It also depends on the numbers you have with you. If alone or part of a very small unit, a city might offer more concealment and possibilities, since caring for land is a lot of work, and generally speaking requires more effort in realms such as security for example. Agriculture also depends on external conditions one cannot control. Many 19th century immigrants going west from back east learned the hard way that surviving harsh winters, droughts or poor crop yielding is extremely difficult and many died during the first winter.

The more you have invested, and the more you have to defend what you have, and the more you are bound to this investment.
The necessary arrival of agriculture, also brought a rise in birth, due to the need for labor. Ironically, we could feed more people, but we also needed more people to tend to the fields.

We think about BO with our modern minds...but if BO is a reality, then the modern world has ceased to exist, and we must rely on extremely primitive ways to feed and care for our families. A rural area under SHTF conditions will see the rise of  agriculture and a minimal amount of hunting and gathering to supplement crops...this will take man power.
If you are set up for it, and you have the man power necessary to sustain a rural lifestyle under extreme conditions, then it is probably a logical direction...but if it is 2 or 3 of you, and all you have is a roof and four walls in the middle of nowhere, the realities of 19th century living will be hard to sustain...and a small community in the suburbs, or a scavenging "high speed, low drag" unit in the city might suit your survival capabilities better at first...until perhaps you find an already established group that would welcome you, or you gather enough people to start your own "village".

No matter what, it is a predatory world...and urban or rural environments are both governed by the same principles.

volwest

islander87

  • Guest
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2009, 03:34:23 PM »
Hey volwest I remember you said you were from CA also, so I just wanted to ask is your BOL in the rural area or suburbs or what?

Offline volwest

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 237
  • Karma: 20
    • Le survivaliste
Re: Is the rural area really the best place for a bug out location?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2009, 05:23:19 PM »
Hello Islander...

I do not have a survival retreat of my own...we have friends in remote places where we could go if and when it made sense.
For now, i cannot justify purchasing, outfitting and maintaining a remote location.

We do have many BOLs though within gas tank range...many Locations, depending on their respective natures can serve as temporary or long term positions in relation to survival. These locations can be specific buildings or structures, natural locations, or simply a neighbor's house.

My BO philosophy is more in terms of neighborhood or regional emergency such as earthquakes and fires...and although i do entertain the more dramatic scenarios (i live in LA-pandemic, riots and so on), i cannot justify once again, unless it is a permanent move, investing in a survival retreat. If i buy a house in the middle of nowhere, i want to live in it, i want to make it a permanent situation...not only to enjoy it, but also because i feel that in case of an emergency there are too many parameters between me, and the retreat.
Furthermore, we do not own property as of yet, and our first purchase, cannot be a BOL.
If down the road we own a house, and are able to afford a second property, then maybe we will entertain the thought of a cabin somewhere. Until then, we have had to make the best out of our location, situation and anticipations.

Just because we do not have a BOL as in a survival retreat, and we live in the middle of the city, does not mean we are out of options...to the contrary.
The city offers many advantages in terms of survival capabilities...it is just a question of adaptability and "city-specific" preparedness.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 05:27:13 PM by volwest »